Upshaw And Ingram
After watching them this week I wonder if their girth will prevent them
from being OLB's on the next level. They both could stand to lose at
least 10 pounds to be true hybrids. Particularly from a Jet perspective
I don't want anymore plodding LB's. I'll be interested in seeing them
run at the Combine
They both were impressive don't get me wrong, but I wonder if their girth
(lower body) will hurt them when dropping into coverage
i don't think it affects the jets b/c they're going to draft offense.
Just from highlights I've never seen a guy with Ingram's body type be so athletic, it's incredible to watch this plump guy changing direction, stopping and starting like he does. I imagine his timed speed won't be elite but his agility is. I don't know how that will translate to pass rush but it seems ideal for coverage.
If they can snuff out a screen and cover in the flats, then that is good enough for me. I can't name one OLB in this league that can run with a TE down the field.
I'd say what is more paramount is the strength and discipline to set an edge in the run game combined with the ability to get after the QB on passing downs. And with the current defensive philosophy employed by REX/Pettine, they seem more content to have a bullish OLB who can pick up a sack here and there versus a pure pass rusher who is a liability in other aspects on D.
Versatility is huge, and they'd rather have three different guys get 5 sacks versus have one guy who gets 15 (in fact, I've heard them make this reference via a baseball analogy -- something to the effect of 'rather have the whole lineup batting .280 than having one guy bat .320 and the rest bat .200'). It makes it less predictable and harder for offenses, since they cannot merely prepare for one guy. I know, we'd all love to have that dominant one guy, but pass rushers can have off games and you're whole D is screwed when that one guy doesn't light it up versus a good offense.
So to answer your question, IMHO I think the Jets might value Ingram higher than Upshaw simply because he seems to be able to line up in more spots on the field and maintain productivity.
Mayock liked him too. Saying that whoever drafts has to have a plan for him since he's such a unique player. I really want this guy.
Ingram is a very solid and versatile player but not elite.
Watching them and hearing the guys on NFLN talk about the difference between classic Parcells 3-4 OLBs (6'4, 6'5 long and athletic) and the Steelers type (6'1, 6'2, stocky and powerful) makes me realize how important it is to utilize a player's strengths. Upshaw and Ingram remind me of Harrelson and Woodley....explosive but strong enough to hold the edge (vs. the run). Probably not the best matchup covering a TE downfield....hence the need for more (and better) safeties. If you draft these guys, put them in a position to do what they do best....get upfield and disrupt.
Athleticism is one thing you really don't have to worry about with Ingram.
How many guys his size could pull this off in NFL history.
Originally Posted by CTJetsFanII
+1 ABSOLUTELY..what is this coverage talk?? these guys are meant to rush the passer..distrupt in backfield no??? r they not that type of player? ingram looks real quick at senior bowl..idk...??? coverage lb???
i'd welcome either of these players on the Jets... gladly. It's questionable whether either is on the board at 16. Upshaw especially could be a top 10 pick.
Originally Posted by bitonti
By Pat Kirwan NFL.com
Published: Jan. 25, 2012 at 03:57 p.m. Updated: Jan. 25, 2012 at 07:15 p.m.
MOBILE, Ala. -- Half of the defenses in the NFL today play a 3-4 front, and just about every team in the league employs some type of hybrid defense to disturb protection calls and get free rushers on the QB. Consequently, many of the NFL coaches and scouts at the 2012 Senior Bowl are looking for those DE/OLB tweeners who give a defensive coordinator the flexibility to create different looks. (Of course, the 3-4 teams have always looked at the undersized college defensive ends as candidates to play the outside linebacker position.)
There's a solid group of players who fit the bill in Mobile. As Falcons GM Thomas Dimitroff told me on Tuesday, "It's important to scout these kind of players very closely during this week."
Here's a quick look at the best hybrid pass rushers at the Senior Bowl. The top two will almost certainly be taken in the first round, and the rest of them will be gone by the fourth.
1. Melvin Ingram, South Carolina (6-1 7/8, 276 pounds)
Ingram couldn't be blocked in the Tuesday practice, as he showcased a complete arsenal of pass rush moves. He reminds me a lot of Pittsburgh Steelers star LaMarr Woodley, and is stout against the run. I see him as more of a 3-4 outside linebacker than a 4-3 defensive end.
2. Courtney Upshaw, Alabama (6-1 1/2, 273)
Upshaw is another ideal 3-4 OLB in the mold of Woodley, but he can come out of a three-point stance with explosiveness as an open-side end if a 4-3 team is interested. Upshaw does not have as much quick-twitch ability as Ingram, but he makes up for it in pure strength and football speed.
3. Shea McClellin, Boise State (6-3 1/4, 248)
McClellin was with the defensive ends in the 4-3 scheme on Monday. By Tuesday, he was working with the linebackers. McClellin was a tight end in high school and has plenty of skill to drop in coverage. When he rushes the passer from a two-point stance, like a 3-4 outside linebacker, he has a solid arsenal of moves to get to the quarterback. He reminds me of the Houston Texans' Connor Barwin when he was at the 2009 Senior Bowl. I heard one head coach say McClellin reminds him of Mike Vrabel, which is pretty high praise in my book.
4. Cam Johnson, Virginia (6-3 3/4, 267)
Johnson is a guy that was a high school wide receiver and defensive back. He played linebacker at Virginia and wound up as a defensive end. He is one of the most intriguing hybrid players in Mobile. I watched him line up with his hand on the ground and he blew up a pulling guard on a trap scheme his way. I observed him in a two-point stance and he easily beat a running back and also bull rushed a tackle. Johnson is athletic enough to line up on a flexed tight end and cover him. One NFL scout called him an enigma, but another scout said he's exactly what his team looks for in a 3-4 scheme.
5. Jake Bequette, Arkansas (6-4 1/2, 264)
Bequette can play with his hand on the ground -- like he did in college -- but he also has the athletic ability to play standing up, dropping in zone coverage as well as rushing the passer. He had 30 tackles for loss and 22 sacks in college, and he's on the radar for a number of teams. He can run for a big man and could be a steal in the middle rounds.
6. Audie Cole, North Carolina State (6-4 1/8, 258)
Cole is a little different than the players mentioned above. He is an inside linebacker who can also go outside and play. A 4-3 team may see him as a Mike or Sam 'backer. A 3-4 team may see him as a strong inside linebacker or a left outside backer. I watched him practice twice and he is versatile enough for a team seeking a guy to train at multiple spots. I'm waiting to see how he plays in the game on Saturday to finish up my Senior Bowl evaluation.