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Warfish · 12-19-2008, 11:54 AM

[QUOTE=kennyo7;2919783]BTW, there is more than just anectodal evidence to support that homosexuality is not a "choice" but rather biologic:

1. Dr. Swaab's post-mortem examination of homosexual males' brains showed that a portion of the hypothalamus of the brain was structurally different than a heterosexual brain. The hypothalamus is the portion of the human brain directly related to sexual drive and function. In the homosexual brains examined, a small portion of the hypothalamus, termed the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN), was found to be twice the size of its heterosexual counterpart. Work is still being done to determine the significance of this.

2. Similar types of studies found the anterior commissure of the hypothalamus was also significantly larger in the homosexual subjects than that of the heterosexuals..more work is being done

3. Simon Levay also did studies on the hypothalamus in homosexuals showing that the 3rd interstitial notch of the anterior hypothalamus was two to three times smaller in homosexual men then in heterosexual men. His study concluded that "homosexual and heterosexual men differ in the central neuronal mechanisms that control sexual behavior". These differences in the hypothalamus are not a product of the environment or upbringing but rather prenatal cerebral development and structural differentiation.

4. Neuroendocrine studies on rats showed that prenatal early high exosures to androgens female rats become masculanized and attracted to other female rats. Male rats who received deficient levels of androgen became submissive in matters of sexual drive and reproduction and were willing to receive the sexual act of the other male rats.

5. Twin studies have shown that the more closely genetically linked a pair is, the more likely they both are to exhibit gay or straight tendencies.

6. Dean Hamers studies on human DNA of gay men found a remarkable concordance for 5 genetic markers on section of the X-Chromosome called Xq28. This is the first "gay gene" study to have been validated by outside scientists.

So this is some pretty strong evidence to suggest homosexuality is mmore biological thhan "choice" . I await to see the evidence you present to support the notion that its "choice"[/QUOTE]

I would not make a fool of myself by trying to debate an expert (a medical doctor) in an issue of his speciality, but I will simply say that what you've listed here is not even close to proof. It's very much in the "still very early theory" stage of scienctific investigation and postulation.

I have quite the faith in science, and I am sure if the cause of Homosexuality IS genetic, then they will find it. and I am sure they will find a cure for it as well (and won't THAT be a big issue when it happens, eh?)

Till science finds it, as I said, I will continue to support gay rights, but I will not insult (as I see it) African Americans by claiming the plight of gays is anything similar to the plight of blacks in America.

I also will laugh at anyone who claims "all" homsexuals are geentic without any proof of that fact, when I think it's pretty apparent that choice IS involved in plenty of cases (even in the relatively limited group I know there are "gays" who engage in that activity by choice, which they are happy to state).

But if you all think they are the same, good for you. I'm not black, nor gay, so I won't be insulted either way.

12-19-2008, 11:54 AM	#58
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=kennyo7;2919783]BTW, there is more than just anectodal evidence to support that homosexuality is not a "choice" but rather biologic: 1. Dr. Swaab's post-mortem examination of homosexual males' brains showed that a portion of the hypothalamus of the brain was structurally different than a heterosexual brain. The hypothalamus is the portion of the human brain directly related to sexual drive and function. In the homosexual brains examined, a small portion of the hypothalamus, termed the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN), was found to be twice the size of its heterosexual counterpart. Work is still being done to determine the significance of this. 2. Similar types of studies found the anterior commissure of the hypothalamus was also significantly larger in the homosexual subjects than that of the heterosexuals..more work is being done 3. Simon Levay also did studies on the hypothalamus in homosexuals showing that the 3rd interstitial notch of the anterior hypothalamus was two to three times smaller in homosexual men then in heterosexual men. His study concluded that "homosexual and heterosexual men differ in the central neuronal mechanisms that control sexual behavior". These differences in the hypothalamus are not a product of the environment or upbringing but rather prenatal cerebral development and structural differentiation. 4. Neuroendocrine studies on rats showed that prenatal early high exosures to androgens female rats become masculanized and attracted to other female rats. Male rats who received deficient levels of androgen became submissive in matters of sexual drive and reproduction and were willing to receive the sexual act of the other male rats. 5. Twin studies have shown that the more closely genetically linked a pair is, the more likely they both are to exhibit gay or straight tendencies. 6. Dean Hamers studies on human DNA of gay men found a remarkable concordance for 5 genetic markers on section of the X-Chromosome called Xq28. This is the first "gay gene" study to have been validated by outside scientists. So this is some pretty strong evidence to suggest homosexuality is mmore biological thhan "choice" . I await to see the evidence you present to support the notion that its "choice"[/QUOTE] I would not make a fool of myself by trying to debate an expert (a medical doctor) in an issue of his speciality, but I will simply say that what you've listed here is not even close to proof. It's very much in the "still very early theory" stage of scienctific investigation and postulation. I have quite the faith in science, and I am sure if the cause of Homosexuality IS genetic, then they will find it. and I am sure they will find a cure for it as well (and won't THAT be a big issue when it happens, eh?) Till science finds it, as I said, I will continue to support gay rights, but I will not insult (as I see it) African Americans by claiming the plight of gays is anything similar to the plight of blacks in America. I also will laugh at anyone who claims "all" homsexuals are geentic without any proof of that fact, when I think it's pretty apparent that choice IS involved in plenty of cases (even in the relatively limited group I know there are "gays" who engage in that activity by choice, which they are happy to state). But if you all think they are the same, good for you. I'm not black, nor gay, so I won't be insulted either way.