Should There Be Independant Govt. Investigations of the Financial Crisis/Colllapse?

Warfish · 09-19-2008, 09:55 AM

Simple yes or no question.

Should Congress appoint an Independant Investigation tasked with exploring the causes and reasons for the financial crisis and Govt. Bailouts (now approaching 500 Billion in taxpayer costs reportedly)?

Sourceworx · 09-19-2008, 10:05 AM

Considering this is costing us dearly, yes.

nuu faaola · 09-19-2008, 10:10 AM

Yes, there ought to be an investigation or whatever. But that should not be used as an excuse to delay reforms that are obviously needed.

We need more stringent disclosure requirements on Wall Street yesterday, as was obvious after the Enron case almost a decade ago. If Wall Street analysts had been able to see all these off-balance sheet shananigans, they would have punished the stocks of the banks in question, which would have prevented the banks from taking on so many reckless loans.

Disclosure requirements need to happen ASAP.

We should investigate this stuff, because there needs to be an accounting for what happened, but we don't need an investigation to point out the obvious priblem with disclosure, imo.

cr726 · 09-19-2008, 10:16 AM

Yes, people deserve to know what has happened.

King Ryan · 09-19-2008, 10:29 AM

HA! Like we don't already know

jetswin · 09-19-2008, 10:31 AM

Only if criminal charges will be the result, otherwise just more wasted taxpayer dollars.

King Ryan · 09-19-2008, 10:36 AM

[QUOTE=jetswin;2759758]Only if criminal charges will be the result, otherwise just more wasted taxpayer dollars.[/QUOTE]

don't hold your breath

quantum · 09-19-2008, 10:39 AM

Yup.

nuu faaola · 09-19-2008, 10:45 AM

[QUOTE=jetswin;2759758]Only if criminal charges will be the result, otherwise just more wasted taxpayer dollars.[/QUOTE]

The problem with this, to the extent that I understand it, is that we are not dealing with outright fraud like we were with Enron.

What we are dealing with is a web of apparently legal, mostly undisclosed transactions that obscured the extent of what was happening, combined with astonishingly bad business judgment (fueled, as usual, by greed).

The problem is that this conduct was probably legal. The laws and regulations need to be changed so that can never again be the case.

Some of the fixes are obvious (disclosure rules), but others concerning these absurdly complicated mortgage-backed securities deals probably need to be studied some to figure out how tangled up the whole thing is. It is a mess.

quantum · 09-19-2008, 10:56 AM

The millions stolen by the top executives of Fannie and Freddie should be seized at the very least...

Warfish · 09-19-2008, 10:56 AM

[QUOTE=nuu faaola;2759799]combined with astonishingly bad business judgment (fueled, as usual, by greed). [/QUOTE]

This is the trouble I have, and one reason why I want thorough investigations, of both the private and Govt. sides of this issue.

To discount the part played by political pressure and ideology-based business practice to lend to unqualified and inappropriate applicants due to policy beliefs (the "a home is a right, everyone should have one, regardless of their abillity to pay") is missing a huge portion of the cause here.

You blithly blame "corporate greed", and ignore any other aspect. YES, greed was one factor, no doubntwhatsoever. But you fail (or refuse) to see how a well-intentioned ideal (combined with some personal profit-taking by those in charge of the well-intentioned idea a la Gorrelick) could easily be twisted into a major cause of this crisis.

And by doing so, you and those who agree with you (business = evil, Govt. = angel) will do nothing to stop similar well-intentioned but economicly unfeasable ideas from causing similar failures again down the road.

It's looking at a problem, and right off refusing to acknowledge half of it for political bias reasons.

JetsFan2012 · 09-19-2008, 10:57 AM

Yes, absolutely.

cr726 · 09-19-2008, 11:04 AM

Because they were Clinton's people? This is a first that any Repub wants to pay attention to CEO's pay. :zzz:

[QUOTE=quantum;2759838]The millions stolen by the top executives of Fannie and Freddie should be seized at the very least...[/QUOTE]

nuu faaola · 09-19-2008, 11:08 AM

[QUOTE=Warfish;2759841]This is the trouble I have, and one reason why I want thorough investigations, of both the private and Govt. sides of this issue.

To discount the part played by political pressure and ideology-based business practice to lend to unqualified and inappropriate applicants due to policy beliefs (the "a home is a right, everyone should have one, regardless of their abillity to pay") is missing a huge portion of the cause here.

You blithly blame "corporate greed", and ignore any other aspect. YES, greed was one factor, no doubntwhatsoever. But you fail (or refuse) to see how a well-intentioned ideal (combined with some personal profit-taking by those in charge of the well-intentioned idea a la Gorrelick) could easily be twisted into a major cause of this crisis.

And by doing so, you and those who agree with you (business = evil, Govt. = angel) will do nothing to stop similar well-intentioned but economicly unfeasable ideas from causing similar failures again down the road.

It's looking at a problem, and right off refusing to acknowledge half of it for political bias reasons.[/QUOTE]

You need to read my other posts about this.

I have absolutely cited the Democrats' well meaning attempt to combat redlining as a factor driving some of the bad mortgages that were made. (Though hardly the only factor, remember Dubya's "Ownership Society" fetish back in 2004?) You combine perverse incentives such as that with the GOP's aversion to regulation and oversight and you have a very toxic stew.

There's plenty of blame to go around on this. It's a bipartisan failure if there ever was one.

chicadeel · 09-19-2008, 11:55 AM

Without a doubt, yes.
Out in the open and shown in prime time for every taxpayer who is paying for this to see.

Aten · 09-19-2008, 11:58 AM

I don't see why there's any need to spend taxpayers' money to conduct a full-scale investigation when you already know everything there is to know about the cause of the crisis.

CTM · 09-19-2008, 11:58 AM

[QUOTE=jetswin;2759758]Only if criminal charges will be the result, otherwise just more wasted taxpayer dollars.[/QUOTE]

Good point..

I want charges and fines out the wazoo!!

Sparky24 · 09-19-2008, 12:06 PM

The jails aren't big enough to hold everyone that's responsible. The line of predatory lenders is endless.

Warfish · 09-19-2008, 12:08 PM

[QUOTE=Sparky24;2760028]The line of predatory lenders is endless.[/QUOTE]

As is the line of stupid and ignorant borrowers.

Sparky24 · 09-19-2008, 12:10 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish;2760036]As is the line of stupid and ignorant borrowers.[/QUOTE]
\

True. So who is ultimately responsible?

View Poll Results: Should there be an Indpendant Investigation in our Financial Crisis and the Bailouts?
Yes, this is of vital importance and all the facts should be looked at so it doesn't happen again.	12	80.00%
No, an investigation is not needed.	3	20.00%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

09-19-2008, 09:55 AM	#1
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	Should There Be Independant Govt. Investigations of the Financial Crisis/Colllapse? Simple yes or no question. Should Congress appoint an Independant Investigation tasked with exploring the causes and reasons for the financial crisis and Govt. Bailouts (now approaching 500 Billion in taxpayer costs reportedly)?

09-19-2008, 10:05 AM	#2
Sourceworx Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Long Island Posts: 13,465	Considering this is costing us dearly, yes.

09-19-2008, 10:10 AM	#3
nuu faaola All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,256	Yes, there ought to be an investigation or whatever. But that should not be used as an excuse to delay reforms that are obviously needed. We need more stringent disclosure requirements on Wall Street yesterday, as was obvious after the Enron case almost a decade ago. If Wall Street analysts had been able to see all these off-balance sheet shananigans, they would have punished the stocks of the banks in question, which would have prevented the banks from taking on so many reckless loans. Disclosure requirements need to happen ASAP. We should investigate this stuff, because there needs to be an accounting for what happened, but we don't need an investigation to point out the obvious priblem with disclosure, imo.

09-19-2008, 10:16 AM	#4
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,542	Yes, people deserve to know what has happened.

09-19-2008, 10:29 AM	#5
King Ryan take a guess Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Montville, NJ Posts: 5,473	HA! Like we don't already know

09-19-2008, 10:31 AM	#6
jetswin stumblin mumblin butt fumblin Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Westchester Co. Posts: 35,514	Only if criminal charges will be the result, otherwise just more wasted taxpayer dollars.

09-19-2008, 10:36 AM	#7
King Ryan take a guess Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Montville, NJ Posts: 5,473	[QUOTE=jetswin;2759758]Only if criminal charges will be the result, otherwise just more wasted taxpayer dollars.[/QUOTE] don't hold your breath

09-19-2008, 10:39 AM	#8
quantum GFY Snatchez! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LI Posts: 18,033	Yup.

09-19-2008, 10:45 AM	#9
nuu faaola All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,256	[QUOTE=jetswin;2759758]Only if criminal charges will be the result, otherwise just more wasted taxpayer dollars.[/QUOTE] The problem with this, to the extent that I understand it, is that we are not dealing with outright fraud like we were with Enron. What we are dealing with is a web of apparently legal, mostly undisclosed transactions that obscured the extent of what was happening, combined with astonishingly bad business judgment (fueled, as usual, by greed). The problem is that this conduct was probably legal. The laws and regulations need to be changed so that can never again be the case. Some of the fixes are obvious (disclosure rules), but others concerning these absurdly complicated mortgage-backed securities deals probably need to be studied some to figure out how tangled up the whole thing is. It is a mess.

09-19-2008, 10:56 AM	#10
quantum GFY Snatchez! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LI Posts: 18,033	The millions stolen by the top executives of Fannie and Freddie should be seized at the very least...

09-19-2008, 10:57 AM	#12
JetsFan2012 Waterboy Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 0	Yes, absolutely.

09-19-2008, 11:04 AM	#13
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,542	Because they were Clinton's people? This is a first that any Repub wants to pay attention to CEO's pay. :zzz: [QUOTE=quantum;2759838]The millions stolen by the top executives of Fannie and Freddie should be seized at the very least...[/QUOTE]

09-19-2008, 11:08 AM	#14
nuu faaola All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,256	[QUOTE=Warfish;2759841]This is the trouble I have, and one reason why I want thorough investigations, of both the private and Govt. sides of this issue. To discount the part played by political pressure and ideology-based business practice to lend to unqualified and inappropriate applicants due to policy beliefs (the "a home is a right, everyone should have one, regardless of their abillity to pay") is missing a huge portion of the cause here. You blithly blame "corporate greed", and ignore any other aspect. YES, greed was one factor, no doubntwhatsoever. But you fail (or refuse) to see how a well-intentioned ideal (combined with some personal profit-taking by those in charge of the well-intentioned idea a la Gorrelick) could easily be twisted into a major cause of this crisis. And by doing so, you and those who agree with you (business = evil, Govt. = angel) will do nothing to stop similar well-intentioned but economicly unfeasable ideas from causing similar failures again down the road. It's looking at a problem, and right off refusing to acknowledge half of it for political bias reasons.[/QUOTE] You need to read my other posts about this. I have absolutely cited the Democrats' well meaning attempt to combat redlining as a factor driving some of the bad mortgages that were made. (Though hardly the only factor, remember Dubya's "Ownership Society" fetish back in 2004?) You combine perverse incentives such as that with the GOP's aversion to regulation and oversight and you have a very toxic stew. There's plenty of blame to go around on this. It's a bipartisan failure if there ever was one.

09-19-2008, 11:55 AM	#15
chicadeel All Pro Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,234	Without a doubt, yes. Out in the open and shown in prime time for every taxpayer who is paying for this to see.

09-19-2008, 11:58 AM	#16
Aten Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 3,753	I don't see why there's any need to spend taxpayers' money to conduct a full-scale investigation when you already know everything there is to know about the cause of the crisis.

09-19-2008, 11:58 AM	#17
CTM Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Not bababooey and I resent the implication Posts: 21,029	[QUOTE=jetswin;2759758]Only if criminal charges will be the result, otherwise just more wasted taxpayer dollars.[/QUOTE] Good point.. I want charges and fines out the wazoo!!

09-19-2008, 12:06 PM	#18
Sparky24 Veteran Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,346	The jails aren't big enough to hold everyone that's responsible. The line of predatory lenders is endless.

09-19-2008, 12:08 PM	#19
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=Sparky24;2760028]The line of predatory lenders is endless.[/QUOTE] As is the line of stupid and ignorant borrowers.

09-19-2008, 12:10 PM	#20
Sparky24 Veteran Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,346	[QUOTE=Warfish;2760036]As is the line of stupid and ignorant borrowers.[/QUOTE] \ True. So who is ultimately responsible?