Rich People DON'T Create Jobs: 6 Myths That Have to Be Killed for Our Economy to Live

Jetdawgg · 12-11-2011, 10:21 PM

[QUOTE]MYTH #1: THE STIMULUS FAILED

For the first four years of his presidency, Franklin Roosevelt tackled the Great Depression with inflation, easy monetary policy, and government spending. But in 1937, FDR's advisers persuaded him to reverse gears. After all, interest rates had been close to zero for years, commodity prices were climbing, and fear of inflation was on the rise.

Bust or Boost?[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IvF1OPP06nc/TuS-ktLuFtI/AAAAAAAAqLY/Sd2fn7kpPCg/s1600/1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OasvnMn3qEI/TuS-lnVn6_I/AAAAAAAAqLg/F1xQ9AnWTbY/s1600/2.jpg[/IMG]

[url]http://www.cracktwo.com/2011/12/rich-people-dont-create-jobs-6-myths.html[/url]

Ernie · 12-12-2011, 09:39 AM

Gee, wonder what the other 5 "myths" are. Can't wait to read them.

chiefst2000 · 12-12-2011, 09:41 AM

Someone went to the trouble of making a chart so it must be true.

bitonti · 12-12-2011, 11:31 AM

the amount of revenue the Bush Tax Cuts prevent the gov't from taking is truly obscene.

we talk about NPR, a few million here or there and people go crazy

we've got a thread going about 5 billion dollars the Post Office might not be able to pay back, it's terrible awful stuff.

meanwhile the Bush tax cuts prevent literally TRILLIONS of dollars from being collected. no problem from the right wing, in fact let's make em permanent.

there's a poker phrase, the money you don't lose spends the same as the money you win.

It's the same here, the revenue the gov't doesn't collect has the same value as the money the gov't spends. the term "fiscal conservative" should mean in favor of increased revenue AND decreased spending. there's a couple nuanced rightys on this site that have supported this idea but most of the GOP thinks spending is terrible and taxes have nothing to do with the deficit.

it's the same conversation. we can't talk about spending without talking about taxes. we can't close the deficit without getting rid of these useless cuts.

SONNY WERBLIN · 12-12-2011, 11:32 AM

Talk about ridiculous. It's a future estimate. The Stimulus was a one-time deal. It has no future cost. What was it? It was the costliest bill ever passed by Congress, and it increased the deficit more in the year enacted than any other law....ever. Tax cuts can be repealed and tax rates can change...they always do. Wars end... it's their nature. And economies eventually recover... it's inevitable. But that stimulus money is gone forever, and we've got nothing to show for it. It was the single most irresponsible use of government funds in the history of the US -- and that's a pretty high bar to clear.

DeanPatsFan · 12-12-2011, 11:33 AM

[QUOTE=bitonti;4273739]the amount of revenue the Bush Tax Cuts prevent the gov't from taking is truly obscene.

[/QUOTE]

The amount of revenue the gubmint needs to take in is what is truly obscene....

bitonti · 12-12-2011, 11:34 AM

[QUOTE=SONNY WERBLIN;4273740] that stimulus money is gone forever, and we've got nothing to show for it. [/QUOTE]

they rebuilt about 4 highway bridges near my house with TIGER money. it wasn't all a waste. In fact we got more out of the stimulus than we did out of the tax cut.

SONNY WERBLIN · 12-12-2011, 11:39 AM

Talk about selective editing.... this is the section of the article with the
"Deficit Graph". It sucks when your source doesn't fit your narrative, doesn't it?

[QUOTE]MYTH #2: THE DEFICIT IS OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM

If your credit card company offered you $30,000 interest-free to buy a car, would you take the deal? Sure you would. It's a three-way win: You replace your clunker, the auto industry keeps its assembly lines humming, and the credit card company is happy to have made a safe loan, even at no interest. Apparently, they think you're a pretty good credit risk.

This is pretty much the situation the US government is in now. If our national debt were really at dire and unsustainable levels, as conservative economists and Republican leaders have taken to arguing, nervous investors would be driving up interest rates on federal borrowing. But just the opposite has happened: As I'm writing this, 10-year real treasury yields are at 0.00 percent. The seven-year rate is actually negative. Apparently, the financial markets think we're a pretty good credit risk.

[B]It's true that the United States needs to address its long-term deficit problem—a problem almost entirely due to Medicare and other health care expenditures.[/B] (Domestic, defense, and Social Security spending have actually decreased as a percentage of GDP over the past 40 years, and there's no reason to think that's about to change.) [/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.cracktwo.com/2011/12/rich-people-dont-create-jobs-6-myths.html[/url]

SONNY WERBLIN · 12-12-2011, 11:41 AM

[QUOTE=bitonti;4273742]they rebuilt about 4 highway bridges near my house with TIGER money. it wasn't all a waste. In fact we got more out of the stimulus than we did out of the tax cut.[/QUOTE]

yeah, at a cost of about $900,000 per job. :rolleyes: Whose to say theose bridges wouldn't not have been rebuilt/repaired without the Stimulus Boondoggle.

southparkcpa · 12-12-2011, 11:56 AM

[QUOTE=SONNY WERBLIN;4273765]yeah, at a cost of about $900,000 per job. :rolleyes: Whose to say theose bridges wouldn't not have been rebuilt/repaired without the Stimulus Boondoggle.[/QUOTE]

Dont question government efficiency, measure their efforts not the results.;)

MnJetFan · 12-12-2011, 12:17 PM

The govt takes in 2.5 trillion dollars every year, maybe the spending is out of wack. Just a thought!

Axil · 12-12-2011, 12:26 PM

I've never seen anyone have the balls to place expenditures and reductions in revenue due to tax cuts on the same chart like that, as if they are in any way comparable... You can always (theoretically) make lost revenue the largest part of your deficit, as the theoretical limit on the governments ability to collect revenue is obscenely high.

Jetdawgg · 12-12-2011, 12:48 PM

I think that the costly wars and the Bush tax cuts were both debacles for the economy. They have made us a hole that is treacherous to get out of. There will be a great deal of pain no matter what route we get placed upon.

The wars will cost us for decades as the troops who are injured will need care from now on. As much as Obama has been railed for the health care passage, I would think that he had enough in his mind to assist the troops and keep the costs in line somewhat with that bill.

However, if the neocons get their way, we will be fighting in Iran very shortly and adding to the deficit again for no reason. No money for bridges without complaints, but plenty for war and nation RE-building in other countries.

Foreign aid; the biggest single wealth distribution mistake this nation makes. Taking money from working people here and giving it to rich people in other countries.

bitonti · 12-12-2011, 12:50 PM

[QUOTE=MnJetFan;4273849]The govt takes in 2.5 trillion dollars every year, maybe the spending is out of wack. Just a thought![/QUOTE]

actually 2.2. what's 300 billion among friends?

AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite · 12-12-2011, 01:00 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti;4273908]actually 2.2. what's 300 billion among friends?[/QUOTE]

You've made similar statements...

That aside, why ignore Sonny... We've talked about it before but how does it feel paying $900,000 per person to build a bridge?

Pretty good, for a liberal, I suppose...

bitonti · 12-12-2011, 01:03 PM

[QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4273928] We've talked about it before but how does it feel paying $900,000 per person to build a bridge?[/QUOTE]

First off those numbers are being pulled out of thin air. it's not 900k per person. alot of the stiumulus (over half) was actually tax cuts, you should like that. counting the tax cut numbers in the math to rebuild a bridge is dishonest math.

also you all assume the bridge would be rebuilt, by the city or state, it was neglected for decades. I was merely disproving the statement that we got nothing from the stimulus. that's untrue. we did get some infrastructure. we got more out of the stimulus than we did out of the war in Iraq. what did we get out of the Bush tax cuts?

AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite · 12-12-2011, 01:11 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti;4273935]what did we get out of the [B]Bush/Obama tax cuts?[/B][/QUOTE]

You can't disprove they didn't assist the economy under Bush...

The unemployment rate was below 5% and didn't rise until the bubble burst...

That aside, please call them by their true name moving forward.

Thankee.

SONNY WERBLIN · 12-12-2011, 02:18 PM

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4273905]
Foreign aid; the biggest single wealth distribution mistake this nation makes. Taking money from working people here and giving it to rich people in other countries.[/QUOTE]

Amen Brother.

MnJetFan · 12-13-2011, 08:58 AM

Cut out the entitlements and we will be ok. The other things are defense dept, Dept of Education and others.

Winstonbiggs · 12-14-2011, 06:46 AM

[QUOTE]MYTH #1: THE STIMULUS FAILED

For the first four years of his presidency, Franklin Roosevelt tackled the Great Depression with inflation, easy monetary policy, and government spending. But in 1937, FDR's advisers persuaded him to reverse gears. After all, interest rates had been close to zero for years, commodity prices were climbing, and fear of inflation was on the rise.

Bust or Boost? [/QUOTE]

Lucky for us we had the war to get us out of the depression.

I just filled up my oil burner today. 4.00 per gallon 997.00. It cost 334.00 2 years ago. Inflation is so cool people in the Northeast are going to choose between food and heat.

12-11-2011, 10:21 PM	#1
Jetdawgg All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 6,688	Rich People DON'T Create Jobs: 6 Myths That Have to Be Killed for Our Economy to Live [QUOTE]MYTH #1: THE STIMULUS FAILED For the first four years of his presidency, Franklin Roosevelt tackled the Great Depression with inflation, easy monetary policy, and government spending. But in 1937, FDR's advisers persuaded him to reverse gears. After all, interest rates had been close to zero for years, commodity prices were climbing, and fear of inflation was on the rise. Bust or Boost?[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IvF1OPP06nc/TuS-ktLuFtI/AAAAAAAAqLY/Sd2fn7kpPCg/s1600/1.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OasvnMn3qEI/TuS-lnVn6_I/AAAAAAAAqLg/F1xQ9AnWTbY/s1600/2.jpg[/IMG] [url]http://www.cracktwo.com/2011/12/rich-people-dont-create-jobs-6-myths.html[/url]

12-12-2011, 09:39 AM	#2
Ernie Seeks the Truth!!! Rookie Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 850	Gee, wonder what the other 5 "myths" are. Can't wait to read them.

12-12-2011, 09:41 AM	#3
chiefst2000 Champion of Common Sense All Pro Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,836	Someone went to the trouble of making a chart so it must be true.

12-12-2011, 11:31 AM	#4
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	the amount of revenue the Bush Tax Cuts prevent the gov't from taking is truly obscene. we talk about NPR, a few million here or there and people go crazy we've got a thread going about 5 billion dollars the Post Office might not be able to pay back, it's terrible awful stuff. meanwhile the Bush tax cuts prevent literally TRILLIONS of dollars from being collected. no problem from the right wing, in fact let's make em permanent. there's a poker phrase, the money you don't lose spends the same as the money you win. It's the same here, the revenue the gov't doesn't collect has the same value as the money the gov't spends. the term "fiscal conservative" should mean in favor of increased revenue AND decreased spending. there's a couple nuanced rightys on this site that have supported this idea but most of the GOP thinks spending is terrible and taxes have nothing to do with the deficit. it's the same conversation. we can't talk about spending without talking about taxes. we can't close the deficit without getting rid of these useless cuts.

12-12-2011, 11:32 AM	#5
SONNY WERBLIN Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,359	Talk about ridiculous. It's a future estimate. The Stimulus was a one-time deal. It has no future cost. What was it? It was the costliest bill ever passed by Congress, and it increased the deficit more in the year enacted than any other law....ever. Tax cuts can be repealed and tax rates can change...they always do. Wars end... it's their nature. And economies eventually recover... it's inevitable. But that stimulus money is gone forever, and we've got nothing to show for it. It was the single most irresponsible use of government funds in the history of the US -- and that's a pretty high bar to clear.

12-12-2011, 11:33 AM	#6
DeanPatsFan Lib Free Or Die..... All Pro Annoying Chowd Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,141	[QUOTE=bitonti;4273739]the amount of revenue the Bush Tax Cuts prevent the gov't from taking is truly obscene. [/QUOTE] The amount of revenue the gubmint needs to take in is what is truly obscene....

12-12-2011, 11:34 AM	#7
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=SONNY WERBLIN;4273740] that stimulus money is gone forever, and we've got nothing to show for it. [/QUOTE] they rebuilt about 4 highway bridges near my house with TIGER money. it wasn't all a waste. In fact we got more out of the stimulus than we did out of the tax cut.

12-12-2011, 11:39 AM	#8
SONNY WERBLIN Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,359	Talk about selective editing.... this is the section of the article with the "Deficit Graph". It sucks when your source doesn't fit your narrative, doesn't it? [QUOTE]MYTH #2: THE DEFICIT IS OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM If your credit card company offered you $30,000 interest-free to buy a car, would you take the deal? Sure you would. It's a three-way win: You replace your clunker, the auto industry keeps its assembly lines humming, and the credit card company is happy to have made a safe loan, even at no interest. Apparently, they think you're a pretty good credit risk. This is pretty much the situation the US government is in now. If our national debt were really at dire and unsustainable levels, as conservative economists and Republican leaders have taken to arguing, nervous investors would be driving up interest rates on federal borrowing. But just the opposite has happened: As I'm writing this, 10-year real treasury yields are at 0.00 percent. The seven-year rate is actually negative. Apparently, the financial markets think we're a pretty good credit risk. [B]It's true that the United States needs to address its long-term deficit problem—a problem almost entirely due to Medicare and other health care expenditures.[/B] (Domestic, defense, and Social Security spending have actually decreased as a percentage of GDP over the past 40 years, and there's no reason to think that's about to change.) [/QUOTE] [url]http://www.cracktwo.com/2011/12/rich-people-dont-create-jobs-6-myths.html[/url]

12-12-2011, 11:41 AM	#9
SONNY WERBLIN Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,359	[QUOTE=bitonti;4273742]they rebuilt about 4 highway bridges near my house with TIGER money. it wasn't all a waste. In fact we got more out of the stimulus than we did out of the tax cut.[/QUOTE] yeah, at a cost of about $900,000 per job. :rolleyes: Whose to say theose bridges wouldn't not have been rebuilt/repaired without the Stimulus Boondoggle.

12-12-2011, 11:56 AM	#10
southparkcpa I see the 88 to 97 period all over again. Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NC Posts: 15,750	[QUOTE=SONNY WERBLIN;4273765]yeah, at a cost of about $900,000 per job. :rolleyes: Whose to say theose bridges wouldn't not have been rebuilt/repaired without the Stimulus Boondoggle.[/QUOTE] Dont question government efficiency, measure their efforts not the results.;)

12-12-2011, 12:17 PM	#11
MnJetFan All League Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,302	The govt takes in 2.5 trillion dollars every year, maybe the spending is out of wack. Just a thought!

12-12-2011, 12:26 PM	#12
Axil Rookie Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 791	I've never seen anyone have the balls to place expenditures and reductions in revenue due to tax cuts on the same chart like that, as if they are in any way comparable... You can always (theoretically) make lost revenue the largest part of your deficit, as the theoretical limit on the governments ability to collect revenue is obscenely high.

12-12-2011, 12:48 PM	#13
Jetdawgg All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 6,688	I think that the costly wars and the Bush tax cuts were both debacles for the economy. They have made us a hole that is treacherous to get out of. There will be a great deal of pain no matter what route we get placed upon. The wars will cost us for decades as the troops who are injured will need care from now on. As much as Obama has been railed for the health care passage, I would think that he had enough in his mind to assist the troops and keep the costs in line somewhat with that bill. However, if the neocons get their way, we will be fighting in Iran very shortly and adding to the deficit again for no reason. No money for bridges without complaints, but plenty for war and nation RE-building in other countries. Foreign aid; the biggest single wealth distribution mistake this nation makes. Taking money from working people here and giving it to rich people in other countries.

12-12-2011, 12:50 PM	#14
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=MnJetFan;4273849]The govt takes in 2.5 trillion dollars every year, maybe the spending is out of wack. Just a thought![/QUOTE] actually 2.2. what's 300 billion among friends?

12-12-2011, 01:00 PM	#15
AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite is all out of fuCks to give... All Pro Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 7,452	[QUOTE=bitonti;4273908]actually 2.2. what's 300 billion among friends?[/QUOTE] You've made similar statements... That aside, why ignore Sonny... We've talked about it before but how does it feel paying $900,000 per person to build a bridge? Pretty good, for a liberal, I suppose...

12-12-2011, 01:03 PM	#16
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4273928] We've talked about it before but how does it feel paying $900,000 per person to build a bridge?[/QUOTE] First off those numbers are being pulled out of thin air. it's not 900k per person. alot of the stiumulus (over half) was actually tax cuts, you should like that. counting the tax cut numbers in the math to rebuild a bridge is dishonest math. also you all assume the bridge would be rebuilt, by the city or state, it was neglected for decades. I was merely disproving the statement that we got nothing from the stimulus. that's untrue. we did get some infrastructure. we got more out of the stimulus than we did out of the war in Iraq. what did we get out of the Bush tax cuts?

12-12-2011, 01:11 PM	#17
AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite is all out of fuCks to give... All Pro Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 7,452	[QUOTE=bitonti;4273935]what did we get out of the [B]Bush/Obama tax cuts?[/B][/QUOTE] You can't disprove they didn't assist the economy under Bush... The unemployment rate was below 5% and didn't rise until the bubble burst... That aside, please call them by their true name moving forward. Thankee.

12-12-2011, 02:18 PM	#18
SONNY WERBLIN Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,359	[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4273905] Foreign aid; the biggest single wealth distribution mistake this nation makes. Taking money from working people here and giving it to rich people in other countries.[/QUOTE] Amen Brother.

12-13-2011, 08:58 AM	#19
MnJetFan All League Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,302	Cut out the entitlements and we will be ok. The other things are defense dept, Dept of Education and others.

12-14-2011, 06:46 AM	#20
Winstonbiggs Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 12,937	[QUOTE]MYTH #1: THE STIMULUS FAILED For the first four years of his presidency, Franklin Roosevelt tackled the Great Depression with inflation, easy monetary policy, and government spending. But in 1937, FDR's advisers persuaded him to reverse gears. After all, interest rates had been close to zero for years, commodity prices were climbing, and fear of inflation was on the rise. Bust or Boost? [/QUOTE] Lucky for us we had the war to get us out of the depression. I just filled up my oil burner today. 4.00 per gallon 997.00. It cost 334.00 2 years ago. Inflation is so cool people in the Northeast are going to choose between food and heat.