Don't Put Too Much Stock in Ryan's Disaster Season

rmeyer52 · 01-04-2013, 08:54 AM

Don't Put Too Much Stock in Ryan's Disaster Season

By MICHAEL SALFINO (WSK New York section)

The Jets' disastrous 2012 season has soured many fans on Rex Ryan's coaching future. But a number of legendary NFL coaches have had multiple seasons with double-digit losses—and a few have even gone on to win the Super Bowl.

Since the NFL went to a 16-game schedule in 1978, 10 coaches with at least 100 wins and a Super Bowl ring also lost 10 or more games at least twice, according to Stats LLC. Ryan, whose 10-loss season this year was his first in four seasons, doesn't have to look far for an example. His MetLife Stadium co-tenant, Tom Coughlin, made the postseason four straight years as the Jaguars' head coach. Like Ryan, he even took his team to the conference championship twice, only to lose. Then three straight 10-loss seasons followed. Coughlin ended up with the Giants, found his quarterback in Eli Manning and beat Tom Brady and Bill Belichick for the Lombardi Trophy—twice.

Another ex-Giants (and Jets) coach, Bill Parcells, also won a Super Bowl after finishing 3-12-1 in 1983, though that was his first season coaching. That year, he badly mismanaged the quarterback situation, benching Phil Simms for Scott Brunner. He later took the Patriots to the Super Bowl, falling to Green Bay, after two more double-digit-loss seasons. Besides Coughlin and Parcells, three other coaches since 1978 shook off double-digit-loss seasons to win the Super Bowl—Belichick, Dick Vermeil and Bill Cowher.

None of this means Ryan (34-30 in his career) is ticketed for coaching greatness. But one bad season doesn't necessarily rule it out. And there's no discounting the chance a coaching change may actually end up being best for Ryan. After all, Coughlin, Belichick and Vermeil all won their Super Bowls with new teams—and new quarterbacks.

Here are Super Bowl-winning coaches with 100-plus career wins who lost 10 games or more multiple times (since 1978).

COACH 10+ LOSS SEASONS CAREER RECORD SUPER BOWL WINS
1 Mike Ditka 5 121-95
2 Bill Parcells 4 172-130-1
3 Tom Coughlin 4 151.121
4 Bill Belichick 3 187-101
5 Mike Shanahan 3 167-125
6 Dick Vermeil 3 111-90
7 Mike Holmgren 2 161-111
8 Joe Gibbs 2 154-94
9 Bill Cowher 2 149=90
10 Chuck Noll 2 119-97
Source: Stats LLC

*won Super Bowl after double-digit-loss season

BamaJets · 01-04-2013, 08:57 AM

Salfino does a good job. He always researches his articles to the absolute extreme before writing.

skipper · 01-04-2013, 09:14 AM

Could not agree more with the sentiments expressed in this article. Ryan is still learning and it would be a shame for us to can him after he has served his apprenticeship on our dime. What he needs is a good OC and a GM who can distinguish talent.

Mainejet · 01-04-2013, 09:33 AM

This article make way too much sense for anybody on this board to want to read.

Message to all Rex haters...

STFU

houyx · 01-04-2013, 09:46 AM

Good article that puts things in perspective for melodramatic Jets fans here.

BrowningNagle · 01-04-2013, 10:09 AM

For me anyway its not that the team went 6-10 its the way it has regressed and the severe limitations Rex has shown as more of a DC than a HC....

chiefst2000 · 01-04-2013, 10:22 AM

How many of those other coaches had a tatoo of their wife wearing nothing but their starting QB's jersey?

Rich Caster · 01-04-2013, 10:25 AM

The missing Key Point is that the other coaches mentioned did not brag that they were better, smarter, had better players, the best mind in football, ect... Rex is the laughing stock of the NFL , bottom of the barrel teams enjoy kicking his teams Butt over and over again.

Batmans A Scientist · 01-04-2013, 11:36 AM

This is pretty stupid. Good coaches can have bad seasons, sure. But Bad coaches have multiple bad seasons.

This aligns with the Mark Sanchez had similar numbers to Eli Manning through 3 seasons, so things should work out. Problem is, he also had similar numbers to Joey Harrington and Kyle Boller.

BamaJets · 01-04-2013, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batmans A Scientist

This is pretty stupid. Good coaches can have bad seasons, sure. But Bad coaches have multiple bad seasons.

This aligns with the Mark Sanchez had similar numbers to Eli Manning through 3 seasons, so things should work out. Problem is, he also had similar numbers to Joey Harrington and Kyle Boller.

Yes, we know that. Did you not read the last paragraph?

"None of this means Ryan (34-30 in his career) is ticketed for coaching greatness. But one bad season doesn't necessarily rule it out. And there's no discounting the chance a coaching change may actually end up being best for Ryan. After all, Coughlin, Belichick and Vermeil all won their Super Bowls with new teams—and new quarterbacks."

Vinny Testaverde's Niece · 01-04-2013, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Caster

The missing Key Point is that the other coaches mentioned did not brag that they were better, smarter, had better players, the best mind in football, ect... Rex is the laughing stock of the NFL , bottom of the barrel teams enjoy kicking his teams Butt over and over again.

Rex has never bragged about himself. Ever. What coach wouldn't and shouldn't brag about his players? The legend and myth making continues.

Rob0729 · 01-04-2013, 12:45 PM

This article is very misleading. Many of the coaches he list having multiple 10 loss seasons need clarification with them.

Yes, Chuck Noll had two seasons where he lost 10 or more games, but that was in the mid-80s after the Steelers Curtain Defense rusted away and the team declined exponentially and he was a mediocre coach for his final 10 years.

As for Belichick, two of his 10+ loss seasons were his first years in both Cleveland and New England and the other one was his last year in Cleveland where the team and fans quit because it was announced that they were moving to Baltimore midseason.

Both of Holmgren's 10+ loss seasons were in Seattle and not Green Bay.

Two of the three 10+ loss seasons for Shanahan were in Washington, not Denver. And the one in Denver was the first year post Elway when they were trying to find a new QB.

Both Gibbs' 10+ loss seasons came when he came back to the NFL in 2004 where it was clear that the game had started to pass him by.

I agree with the general premise that one bad season doesn't mean that Ryan or any other coach may be a bad coach, but I disagree with the evidence they back it up with. Guys like Noll and Gibbs got their 10+ loss seasons after their stars started to dim, not early in their head coaching careers. There is no comparison to Ryan's situation. Same with Belichick considering two of the three 10+ losing seasons were in clear rebuilding years where he inherited a mess and the other was the most unique season in NFL history.

Batmans A Scientist · 01-04-2013, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaJets

Yes, we know that. Did you not read the last paragraph?

"None of this means Ryan (34-30 in his career) is ticketed for coaching greatness. But one bad season doesn't necessarily rule it out. And there's no discounting the chance a coaching change may actually end up being best for Ryan. After all, Coughlin, Belichick and Vermeil all won their Super Bowls with new teams—and new quarterbacks."

Fair enough, I didn't finish. I actually think Rex can be a very good head coach, but I'm not really convinced it will happen with the Jets.

Savage69 · 01-04-2013, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob0729

This article is very misleading. Many of the coaches he list having multiple 10 loss seasons need clarification with them.

Yes, Chuck Noll had two seasons where he lost 10 or more games, but that was in the mid-80s after the Steelers Curtain Defense rusted away and the team declined exponentially and he was a mediocre coach for his final 10 years.

As for Belichick, two of his 10+ loss seasons were his first years in both Cleveland and New England and the other one was his last year in Cleveland where the team and fans quit because it was announced that they were moving to Baltimore midseason.

Both of Holmgren's 10+ loss seasons were in Seattle and not Green Bay.

Two of the three 10+ loss seasons for Shanahan were in Washington, not Denver. And the one in Denver was the first year post Elway when they were trying to find a new QB.

Both Gibbs' 10+ loss seasons came when he came back to the NFL in 2004 where it was clear that the game had started to pass him by.

I agree with the general premise that one bad season doesn't mean that Ryan or any other coach may be a bad coach, but I disagree with the evidence they back it up with. Guys like Noll and Gibbs got their 10+ loss seasons after their stars started to dim, not early in their head coaching careers. There is no comparison to Ryan's situation. Same with Belichick considering two of the three 10+ losing seasons were in clear rebuilding years where he inherited a mess and the other was the most unique season in NFL history.

In short when they had bad QB play they lost..

Rob0729 · 01-04-2013, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savage69

In short when they had bad QB play they lost..

Unfortunately for head coaches with starting QBs not named Manning, Brady, RGIII, Luck, Brees, Rodgers, and a few others; that is probably the truth about most head coaches.

Batmans A Scientist · 01-04-2013, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob0729

Unfortunately for head coaches with starting QBs not named Manning, Brady, RGIII, Luck, Brees, Rodgers, and a few others; that is probably the truth about most head coaches.

If anything, that shows Rex's worth. Again, I'm on the fence about him. I'd be fine with him getting fired, but I believe that he is a pretty good coach, and can be a great one. There are plenty of coaches that are worse in the NFL, and plenty that would have done worse than 6-10 with the Offense they have.

Spectre · 01-04-2013, 01:42 PM

The Jets sticking with Ryan as their HC is a good thing.

- For the Patriots-

GreenReaper · 01-04-2013, 02:30 PM

Rex has to recognize that he needs help and guidance in managing the QB position and the offense. Hopefully this comes from his new GM...OC and QB coach, as well as any other outside consultant types, that are brought in on these matters.

If there's ever going to be a workable marriage for both Rex and the new GM... that goes beyond the 2013 season. It's going to depend on how open Rex is to learning from these others.

As I've said before...I have mixed feeling about Rex. But a big positive for me, is that I still feel Rex can beat Belichick and Brady's Pats. If he's given the talent...especially at QB, and with a more complementary offense.

IMO...no matter who is HC of the Jets in 2013...it's not likely the Jets are going to end up in the playoffs. And another 4-7 win season is a more realistic landing point. So W-L may not be what is going to persuade the new GM, on whether Rex should stay or go. It may be more on how Rex is coaching...handling the team and its problems. How hard the team is playing. How responsive Rex is to input from the GM and others. And of course...whether the GM and Rex share the same vision and course of action...moving forward from 2013.

Remember what Leon Hess said? Well here at Jets Paradise... fans reactions are like...

"I'm 18 years old and I want results now!"

Tai Mai Shu · 01-04-2013, 02:39 PM

This is the Kool-aid drinkers type of article. Isn't this guy part of the media? Why is everyone sucking on his c**k and not calling them dbags? Because this guy didn't say bad thing about their Jets.

Redrew · 01-04-2013, 05:49 PM

How many on the list lost their locker room in year 3?
How many bragged they were the best in the league?
How many lived for the microphone.

The one coach Rex most resembles never made the list ......his Papa......hmmmmm....wonder why his act didn't take his teams to the pinnacle?

01-04-2013, 08:54 AM	#1
rmeyer52 All League Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Simi Valley, California Posts: 2,711	Don't Put Too Much Stock in Ryan's Disaster Season Don't Put Too Much Stock in Ryan's Disaster Season By MICHAEL SALFINO (WSK New York section) The Jets' disastrous 2012 season has soured many fans on Rex Ryan's coaching future. But a number of legendary NFL coaches have had multiple seasons with double-digit losses—and a few have even gone on to win the Super Bowl. Since the NFL went to a 16-game schedule in 1978, 10 coaches with at least 100 wins and a Super Bowl ring also lost 10 or more games at least twice, according to Stats LLC. Ryan, whose 10-loss season this year was his first in four seasons, doesn't have to look far for an example. His MetLife Stadium co-tenant, Tom Coughlin, made the postseason four straight years as the Jaguars' head coach. Like Ryan, he even took his team to the conference championship twice, only to lose. Then three straight 10-loss seasons followed. Coughlin ended up with the Giants, found his quarterback in Eli Manning and beat Tom Brady and Bill Belichick for the Lombardi Trophy—twice. Another ex-Giants (and Jets) coach, Bill Parcells, also won a Super Bowl after finishing 3-12-1 in 1983, though that was his first season coaching. That year, he badly mismanaged the quarterback situation, benching Phil Simms for Scott Brunner. He later took the Patriots to the Super Bowl, falling to Green Bay, after two more double-digit-loss seasons. Besides Coughlin and Parcells, three other coaches since 1978 shook off double-digit-loss seasons to win the Super Bowl—Belichick, Dick Vermeil and Bill Cowher. None of this means Ryan (34-30 in his career) is ticketed for coaching greatness. But one bad season doesn't necessarily rule it out. And there's no discounting the chance a coaching change may actually end up being best for Ryan. After all, Coughlin, Belichick and Vermeil all won their Super Bowls with new teams—and new quarterbacks. Here are Super Bowl-winning coaches with 100-plus career wins who lost 10 games or more multiple times (since 1978). COACH 10+ LOSS SEASONS CAREER RECORD SUPER BOWL WINS 1 Mike Ditka 5 121-95 2 Bill Parcells 4 172-130-1 3 Tom Coughlin 4 151.121 4 Bill Belichick 3 187-101 5 Mike Shanahan 3 167-125 6 Dick Vermeil 3 111-90 7 Mike Holmgren 2 161-111 8 Joe Gibbs 2 154-94 9 Bill Cowher 2 149=90 10 Chuck Noll 2 119-97 Source: Stats LLC *won Super Bowl after double-digit-loss season

01-04-2013, 08:57 AM	#2
BamaJets Veteran Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,777	Salfino does a good job. He always researches his articles to the absolute extreme before writing.

01-04-2013, 09:14 AM	#3
skipper Undrafted Free Agent Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 111	Could not agree more with the sentiments expressed in this article. Ryan is still learning and it would be a shame for us to can him after he has served his apprenticeship on our dime. What he needs is a good OC and a GM who can distinguish talent.

01-04-2013, 09:33 AM	#4
Mainejet impatiently waiting for the Jets to win the SB Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 12,053	This article make way too much sense for anybody on this board to want to read. Message to all Rex haters... STFU

01-04-2013, 09:46 AM	#5
houyx Practice Squad Waterboy Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 57	Good article that puts things in perspective for melodramatic Jets fans here.

01-04-2013, 10:09 AM	#6
BrowningNagle Rookie Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 870	For me anyway its not that the team went 6-10 its the way it has regressed and the severe limitations Rex has shown as more of a DC than a HC....

01-04-2013, 10:22 AM	#7
chiefst2000 Champion of Common Sense All Pro Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,882	How many of those other coaches had a tatoo of their wife wearing nothing but their starting QB's jersey?

01-04-2013, 10:25 AM	#8
Rich Caster Rookie Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 767	The missing Key Point is that the other coaches mentioned did not brag that they were better, smarter, had better players, the best mind in football, ect... Rex is the laughing stock of the NFL , bottom of the barrel teams enjoy kicking his teams Butt over and over again.

01-04-2013, 11:36 AM	#9
Batmans A Scientist Watching the American East Championship All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Manhattan, NY Posts: 8,553	This is pretty stupid. Good coaches can have bad seasons, sure. But Bad coaches have multiple bad seasons. This aligns with the Mark Sanchez had similar numbers to Eli Manning through 3 seasons, so things should work out. Problem is, he also had similar numbers to Joey Harrington and Kyle Boller.

01-04-2013, 12:45 PM	#12
Rob0729 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,307	This article is very misleading. Many of the coaches he list having multiple 10 loss seasons need clarification with them. Yes, Chuck Noll had two seasons where he lost 10 or more games, but that was in the mid-80s after the Steelers Curtain Defense rusted away and the team declined exponentially and he was a mediocre coach for his final 10 years. As for Belichick, two of his 10+ loss seasons were his first years in both Cleveland and New England and the other one was his last year in Cleveland where the team and fans quit because it was announced that they were moving to Baltimore midseason. Both of Holmgren's 10+ loss seasons were in Seattle and not Green Bay. Two of the three 10+ loss seasons for Shanahan were in Washington, not Denver. And the one in Denver was the first year post Elway when they were trying to find a new QB. Both Gibbs' 10+ loss seasons came when he came back to the NFL in 2004 where it was clear that the game had started to pass him by. I agree with the general premise that one bad season doesn't mean that Ryan or any other coach may be a bad coach, but I disagree with the evidence they back it up with. Guys like Noll and Gibbs got their 10+ loss seasons after their stars started to dim, not early in their head coaching careers. There is no comparison to Ryan's situation. Same with Belichick considering two of the three 10+ losing seasons were in clear rebuilding years where he inherited a mess and the other was the most unique season in NFL history.

01-04-2013, 01:42 PM	#17
Spectre N40 48.79182 W74 4.48859 Rookie Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 573	The Jets sticking with Ryan as their HC is a good thing. - For the Patriots-

01-04-2013, 02:30 PM	#18
GreenReaper ...back from the DEAD...again! All Pro Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,553	Rex has to recognize that he needs help and guidance in managing the QB position and the offense. Hopefully this comes from his new GM...OC and QB coach, as well as any other outside consultant types, that are brought in on these matters. If there's ever going to be a workable marriage for both Rex and the new GM... that goes beyond the 2013 season. It's going to depend on how open Rex is to learning from these others. As I've said before...I have mixed feeling about Rex. But a big positive for me, is that I still feel Rex can beat Belichick and Brady's Pats. If he's given the talent...especially at QB, and with a more complementary offense. IMO...no matter who is HC of the Jets in 2013...it's not likely the Jets are going to end up in the playoffs. And another 4-7 win season is a more realistic landing point. So W-L may not be what is going to persuade the new GM, on whether Rex should stay or go. It may be more on how Rex is coaching...handling the team and its problems. How hard the team is playing. How responsive Rex is to input from the GM and others. And of course...whether the GM and Rex share the same vision and course of action...moving forward from 2013. Remember what Leon Hess said? Well here at Jets Paradise... fans reactions are like... "I'm 18 years old and I want results now!"

01-04-2013, 02:39 PM	#19
Tai Mai Shu Undrafted Free Agent Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 181	This is the Kool-aid drinkers type of article. Isn't this guy part of the media? Why is everyone sucking on his c**k and not calling them dbags? Because this guy didn't say bad thing about their Jets.

01-04-2013, 05:49 PM	#20
Redrew Jets Savant Practice Squad Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 317	How many on the list lost their locker room in year 3? How many bragged they were the best in the league? How many lived for the microphone. The one coach Rex most resembles never made the list ......his Papa......hmmmmm....wonder why his act didn't take his teams to the pinnacle?