Tonight's the beginning of the end for the Bush

tailgators · 01-19-2004, 10:06 PM

This is a great night for Senator Kerry and an even better night for the Democratic Party and the nation as a whole.

One year from tomorrow we'll all gather at the capitol for the inauguration of John Kerry as our new president, and to paraphrase the only other un-elected president in our nation's history "Our long national nightmare will be over."

The Gun Of Bavaria · 01-19-2004, 11:10 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by tailgators[/i]@Jan 19 2004, 11:06 PM
[b] This is a great night for Senator Kerry and an even better night for the Democratic Party and the nation as a whole.

One year from tomorrow we'll all gather at the capitol for the inauguration of John Kerry as our new president, and to paraphrase the only other un-elected president in our nation's history "Our long national nightmare will be over." [/b][/quote]
:rolleyes:

Jet Set Junta · 01-20-2004, 08:26 AM

Hey, it was a good win for him and you have every right to gloat since you've stuck by your man even when he fell out of fashion with the mainstream pundits.

I still think he's the Ed Muskie (1972) of this year's Democrat pool, but let's see what happens in NH.

The dropping out of Gephardt will have interesting consequences for the next Midwestern primaries, in terms of who gets the votes he would have -- his endorsement, if he makes one, will be a big factor over the next month.

Biggest surprise: Clark getting "0%", less than Kucinich who got on the board with a whole 1 percentage point.

I don't think Dean's 3rd place showing is remotely bad; he's still pushing the best grassroots campaign of them all, and the first few caucuses and primaries always reflect the old party bosses and their established guys.

Batmans A Scientist · 01-20-2004, 08:59 AM

[quote][b] Biggest surprise: Clark getting "0%", less than Kucinich who got on the board with a whole 1 percentage point. [/b][/quote]

[quote][b]I don't think Dean's 3rd place showing is remotely bad; he's still pushing the best grassroots campaign of them all, and the first few caucuses and primaries always reflect the old party bosses and their established guys.[/b][/quote]

Wesley Clark getting 0% wasn't a surprise at all. He didn't campaign in Iowa in the least. He said all along that he planned on working towards New Hampsire, and just didn't bother with Iowa, same with Lieberman.

Dean losing is the best thing for the democratic party. After all, as few people on the newscasts said, "electablity" is key. If Dean doesn't show strong in NH, he's in serious trouble. Wesley Clark got hurt more than anyone else. Instead of running against Dean, he's now running against 3 viable candidates, its hard to see him overcome that.

I think the biggest winner of the night might be Edwards. He was cast in the shadow of Dean from the beginning, and a bad Gephardt-like showing in Iowa would have ended his campaign. Who knows if he's still in it, but great showing there.

To learn about candidates [url=http://www.vote-smart.org]Vote Smart - Learn about the candidates for President[/url]

tailgators · 01-20-2004, 09:00 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Jet Set Junta[/i]@Jan 20 2004, 09:26 AM
[b] Hey, it was a good win for him and you have every right to gloat since you've stuck by your man even when he fell out of fashion with the mainstream pundits.

I still think he's the Ed Muskie (1972) of this year's Democrat pool, but let's see what happens in NH.

The dropping out of Gephardt will have interesting consequences for the next Midwestern primaries, in terms of who gets the votes he would have -- his endorsement, if he makes one, will be a big factor over the next month.

Biggest surprise: Clark getting "0%", less than Kucinich who got on the board with a whole 1 percentage point.

I don't think Dean's 3rd place showing is remotely bad; he's still pushing the best grassroots campaign of them all, and the first few caucuses and primaries always reflect the old party bosses and their established guys. [/b][/quote]
I think the democratic voters are finally taking a close look @ the candidates and came to the same determination that I did. John Kerry is the most qualified person to challange and defeat President Bush.

The difference between Muskie and Kerry is that the Republicans won't be able to sabatoge Kerry the same way they did Muskie. Nixon's plumbers sabatoged the Muskie campaign and their coup de grace was the Canuck Letter.

Lastly, Howard Dean in my opinion is unelectable and it would be a grave mistake for the democrats to nominate him. Furthermore, since I've convinced that four more years of President Bush would be a disaster for the United States it's vital that John Kerry is elected in November.

bitonti · 01-20-2004, 10:42 AM

guys i dunno if you noticed but the Iowa caucus doesn't mean jack squat. in the grand scheme of things It means very little.

however Its a good thing that Dean got housed... cause that opens up the field for Clark. :D

jets5ever · 01-20-2004, 10:44 AM

Tailgators - you stuck by him through rough patches and deserve to be happy for a while. However, much will happen in the coming weeks and it is FAR from over. Clark, Dean, Edwards and Kerry will be fighting for this nominationa ll the way through to the convention, which hurts Dean more than it hurts the others.

Watch for Dean to run as an independent or Greenie if he loses the nod. If he does that, and Nader runs, Bush's re-election is all but assured. Dean would probably be mad enough at the Dems to do it....

Dean is literally going to punch someone during Thursday's debate.....

tailgators · 01-20-2004, 10:45 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Jan 20 2004, 11:42 AM
[b] guys i dunno if you noticed but the Iowa caucus doesn't mean jack squat. in the grand scheme of things It means very little. [/b][/quote]

That's changing.

In the era of 24hour news cycle and compressed primary season it means a great deal.

Kerry's got the big Mo!!

bit...Get on board while there's still some room left on the bandwagon.

bitonti · 01-20-2004, 01:23 PM

tail

think about this objectively

John kerry is a fine candidate but no JFK. The chances of this man, a Mass Liberal winning a general election over Dubya from Texas are slim to none.

Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton... these are successful SOUTHERN democrats. Heck even Al gore came within a hair's breadth...

remember the last Mass liberal the Dems trotted out (also against a Bush)

Dukakis got slaughtered. Kerry is the same way. Non-descript. A good but not great candidate - and at the end of the day no one from the bible belt, the sun belt will give their vote to him over a Texas republican. Mass LIberals are too easy to make fun of - its just that simple.

if we want Bush out... its wesley clark or bust

tailgators · 01-20-2004, 01:36 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Jan 20 2004, 02:23 PM
[b] tail

think about this objectively

John kerry is a fine candidate but no JFK. The chances of this man, a Mass Liberal winning a general election over Dubya from Texas are slim to none.

Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton... these are successful SOUTHERN democrats. Heck even Al gore came within a hair's breadth...

remember the last Mass liberal the Dems trotted out (also against a Bush)

Dukakis got slaughtered. Kerry is the same way. Non-descript. A good but not great candidate - and at the end of the day no one from the bible belt, the sun belt will give their vote to him over a Texas republican. Mass LIberals are too easy to make fun of - its just that simple.

if we want Bush out... its wesley clark or bust [/b][/quote]
Forty four years ago they said a southern man could never be elected president. That's one of the reasons why LBJ accepted the VP spot when JFK offered it to him. Look how that's changed.

In today's America regionalism matters less and less. People move so frequently that they have ties to many different areas of the country.

John Kerry can't be painted as just another Mass Liberal. He outflanks Bush at every turn. His energy policy alone offers so many solutions to America from econimic to domestic security to foreign relations. No one is even close.

BTW bit... if your going to vote for a Republican, you might as well vote for the one with the ® by his name.

bitonti · 01-20-2004, 01:47 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by tailgators[/i]@Jan 20 2004, 02:36 PM
[b] BTW bit... if your going to vote for a Republican, you might as well vote for the one with the ® by his name. [/b][/quote]
nice use of the R entity... still you better watch yourself Tail, bashing Clark now means more backtracking when its time to vote for him.

the way i see it all Kerry did was lead block Dean out of the way for Clark's big week -

Clark will be on CNN @8pm with Zahn prior to the Bush SoU speech... the surge continues

tailgators · 01-20-2004, 01:58 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Jan 20 2004, 02:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Jan 20 2004, 02:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--tailgators[/i]@Jan 20 2004, 02:36 PM
[b] BTW bit... if your going to vote for a Republican, you might as well vote for the one with the ® by his name. [/b][/quote]
nice use of the R entity... still you better watch yourself Tail, bashing Clark now means more backtracking when its time to vote for him.

the way i see it all Kerry did was lead block Dean out of the way for Clark's big week -

Clark will be on CNN @8pm with Zahn prior to the Bush SoU speech... the surge continues [/b][/quote]
bit...How do we know who the real Clark is? Is he the guy who gave speeches that raised money for Bush and the Republicans in 2001 and 2002 or is it the guy we see now? He's too inconsistant for me.

Kerry's the guy!

Jet Set Junta · 01-20-2004, 01:59 PM

He'd better have a pretty big media surge planned, because getting 0% in the first caucus -- even one he didn't bother personally canvassing for strategic reasons -- is not a good sign of having a diversified fanbase.

I'm really interested to see what he does in NH, and what happens if/when Edwards is dropped out. There were rumors floating around last week that when Kucinich bails he'll endorse Clark -- I'd like to see this if only to watch heads across Ithaca explode. Would make all the snow turn pink.

MARYLAND JET · 01-20-2004, 01:59 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Jan 20 2004, 02:23 PM
[b] remember the last Mass liberal the Dems trotted out (also against a Bush)

Dukakis got slaughtered. Kerry is the same way. Non-descript. A good but not great candidate - and at the end of the day no one from the bible belt, the sun belt will give their vote to him over a Texas republican. Mass LIberals are too easy to make fun of - its just that simple.

[/b][/quote]
Totally agree with that analysis.....

While I'm voting for Bush against whomever the dem's trot out there my personal opinion is that the one guy who really could give Bush a run for his money is Edwards.....

Think about it for a minute.....

Dean.....is considered too volitile and inexperienced for the masses.

Kerry.....see above.

Clark.....the jury is still out on him but as a conservative I like our chances, he's not as polished a politician as he should be and I think in a one on one against President Bush he'd be eaten alive.

But Edwards.....he scares me a little.....southern democrats play well in the bible belt and he seems to be well spoken and polished, he's got a certain " slickness " that I think would play well with some of the more naive voters...and...as trivial as it is you can't discount the fact that he's considered good looking because it can only help him. { it sure helped JFK }.

I hope the democratic voters focus on either Kerry or Clark and discount the one guy who may actually come close to getting them what they want.....Edwards.

bitonti · 01-20-2004, 02:51 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by MARYLAND JET[/i]@Jan 20 2004, 02:59 PM
[b] Clark.....the jury is still out on him but as a conservative I like our chances, he's not as polished a politician as he should be and I think in a one on one against President Bush he'd be eaten alive. [/b][/quote]
listen to Clark speak about "borrowing a flight suit and prancing around on a carrier" and you might just change your tune, MDJet. Clark takes guff from no man, and unlike Bush actually has a brain between his ears.

shakin318 · 01-20-2004, 03:53 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Jan 20 2004, 03:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Jan 20 2004, 03:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--MARYLAND JET[/i]@Jan 20 2004, 02:59 PM
[b] Clark.....the jury is still out on him but as a conservative I like our chances, he's not as polished a politician as he should be and I think in a one on one against President Bush he'd be eaten alive. [/b][/quote]
listen to Clark speak about "borrowing a flight suit and prancing around on a carrier" and you might just change your tune, MDJet. Clark takes guff from no man, and unlike Bush actually has a brain between his ears. [/b][/quote]
Wow bit...the guy can make childish accusations?! Where do I sign?...

I'd love to find a link to his discussion of "swapping military hats with a brutal mass murderer and posing ignorantly in front of a camera"...yeah, that would be cool...

bitonti · 01-20-2004, 04:20 PM

shakin i don't have that but i do have a link of Rumsfeld slappin skins with Saddam will that do?

Govjetz · 01-20-2004, 04:33 PM

Howard Dean is spaz did anyone see him berate that guy who ask him a question and told him to sit down and shut up..........

John Edwards is Damien Thorne...................IMO only Edwards and Clark can beat Bush

bitonti · 01-23-2004, 01:19 PM

[b]tail[/b]

its articles like this that make me worry about Kerry's electablity

[url=http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,109259,00.html]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,109259,00.html[/url]

at the end of the day he's a mass liberal with the same initials as JFK but without the charisma of jfk... the last thing the democrats need is to run another dukakis

the issue of whether he would make a fine president is not a question... its about playing to the undecideds/swaying Conservatives, especially in the heartland/south.

the fact that he's married the Heinz queen is another point of contention i've already seen Rush and others harping on...as this article is showing, the term "limosene liberal" is already rearing its ugly head

tailgators · 01-23-2004, 01:44 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Jan 23 2004, 02:19 PM
[b] [b]tail[/b]

its articles like this that make me worry about Kerry's electablity

[URL=http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,109259,00.html] [/b][/quote]
Nonsense bit, don't swing at a pitch in the dirt.

First of all consider the source. Second of all while most Americans see the image of Ted Kennedy as polarizing, they also overwhelmingly agree with the way he votes in the Senate.

Whether people realize it or not the best friend they have in the United States Congress is Senator Kennedy. No one takes a back seat to his vigorous defense of the programs (Social Security, Medi-care) that most middle class people in the United States depend on.

So it shouldn't surprise people that Senator Kerry also is a champion of their causes, and this will serve him well over the next 9-10 months.

01-19-2004, 10:06 PM	#1
tailgators Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Kingston, NY Posts: 3,975	This is a great night for Senator Kerry and an even better night for the Democratic Party and the nation as a whole. One year from tomorrow we'll all gather at the capitol for the inauguration of John Kerry as our new president, and to paraphrase the only other un-elected president in our nation's history "Our long national nightmare will be over."

01-19-2004, 11:10 PM	#2
The Gun Of Bavaria Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Detroit, Michigan Posts: 8,682	[quote][i]Originally posted by tailgators[/i]@Jan 19 2004, 11:06 PM [b] This is a great night for Senator Kerry and an even better night for the Democratic Party and the nation as a whole. One year from tomorrow we'll all gather at the capitol for the inauguration of John Kerry as our new president, and to paraphrase the only other un-elected president in our nation's history "Our long national nightmare will be over." [/b][/quote] :rolleyes:

01-20-2004, 08:26 AM	#3
Jet Set Junta All League Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 851	Hey, it was a good win for him and you have every right to gloat since you've stuck by your man even when he fell out of fashion with the mainstream pundits. I still think he's the Ed Muskie (1972) of this year's Democrat pool, but let's see what happens in NH. The dropping out of Gephardt will have interesting consequences for the next Midwestern primaries, in terms of who gets the votes he would have -- his endorsement, if he makes one, will be a big factor over the next month. Biggest surprise: Clark getting "0%", less than Kucinich who got on the board with a whole 1 percentage point. I don't think Dean's 3rd place showing is remotely bad; he's still pushing the best grassroots campaign of them all, and the first few caucuses and primaries always reflect the old party bosses and their established guys.

01-20-2004, 08:59 AM	#4
Batmans A Scientist Watching the American East Championship All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Manhattan, NY Posts: 8,512	[quote][b] Biggest surprise: Clark getting "0%", less than Kucinich who got on the board with a whole 1 percentage point. [/b][/quote] [quote][b]I don't think Dean's 3rd place showing is remotely bad; he's still pushing the best grassroots campaign of them all, and the first few caucuses and primaries always reflect the old party bosses and their established guys.[/b][/quote] Wesley Clark getting 0% wasn't a surprise at all. He didn't campaign in Iowa in the least. He said all along that he planned on working towards New Hampsire, and just didn't bother with Iowa, same with Lieberman. Dean losing is the best thing for the democratic party. After all, as few people on the newscasts said, "electablity" is key. If Dean doesn't show strong in NH, he's in serious trouble. Wesley Clark got hurt more than anyone else. Instead of running against Dean, he's now running against 3 viable candidates, its hard to see him overcome that. I think the biggest winner of the night might be Edwards. He was cast in the shadow of Dean from the beginning, and a bad Gephardt-like showing in Iowa would have ended his campaign. Who knows if he's still in it, but great showing there. To learn about candidates [url=http://www.vote-smart.org]Vote Smart - Learn about the candidates for President[/url]

01-20-2004, 09:00 AM	#5
tailgators Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Kingston, NY Posts: 3,975	[quote][i]Originally posted by Jet Set Junta[/i]@Jan 20 2004, 09:26 AM [b] Hey, it was a good win for him and you have every right to gloat since you've stuck by your man even when he fell out of fashion with the mainstream pundits. I still think he's the Ed Muskie (1972) of this year's Democrat pool, but let's see what happens in NH. The dropping out of Gephardt will have interesting consequences for the next Midwestern primaries, in terms of who gets the votes he would have -- his endorsement, if he makes one, will be a big factor over the next month. Biggest surprise: Clark getting "0%", less than Kucinich who got on the board with a whole 1 percentage point. I don't think Dean's 3rd place showing is remotely bad; he's still pushing the best grassroots campaign of them all, and the first few caucuses and primaries always reflect the old party bosses and their established guys. [/b][/quote] I think the democratic voters are finally taking a close look @ the candidates and came to the same determination that I did. John Kerry is the most qualified person to challange and defeat President Bush. The difference between Muskie and Kerry is that the Republicans won't be able to sabatoge Kerry the same way they did Muskie. Nixon's plumbers sabatoged the Muskie campaign and their coup de grace was the Canuck Letter. Lastly, Howard Dean in my opinion is unelectable and it would be a grave mistake for the democrats to nominate him. Furthermore, since I've convinced that four more years of President Bush would be a disaster for the United States it's vital that John Kerry is elected in November.

01-20-2004, 10:42 AM	#6
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	guys i dunno if you noticed but the Iowa caucus doesn't mean jack squat. in the grand scheme of things It means very little. however Its a good thing that Dean got housed... cause that opens up the field for Clark. :D

01-20-2004, 10:44 AM	#7
jets5ever Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 11,692	Tailgators - you stuck by him through rough patches and deserve to be happy for a while. However, much will happen in the coming weeks and it is FAR from over. Clark, Dean, Edwards and Kerry will be fighting for this nominationa ll the way through to the convention, which hurts Dean more than it hurts the others. Watch for Dean to run as an independent or Greenie if he loses the nod. If he does that, and Nader runs, Bush's re-election is all but assured. Dean would probably be mad enough at the Dems to do it.... Dean is literally going to punch someone during Thursday's debate.....

01-20-2004, 10:45 AM	#8
tailgators Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Kingston, NY Posts: 3,975	[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Jan 20 2004, 11:42 AM [b] guys i dunno if you noticed but the Iowa caucus doesn't mean jack squat. in the grand scheme of things It means very little. [/b][/quote] That's changing. In the era of 24hour news cycle and compressed primary season it means a great deal. Kerry's got the big Mo!! bit...Get on board while there's still some room left on the bandwagon.

01-20-2004, 01:23 PM	#9
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	tail think about this objectively John kerry is a fine candidate but no JFK. The chances of this man, a Mass Liberal winning a general election over Dubya from Texas are slim to none. Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton... these are successful SOUTHERN democrats. Heck even Al gore came within a hair's breadth... remember the last Mass liberal the Dems trotted out (also against a Bush) Dukakis got slaughtered. Kerry is the same way. Non-descript. A good but not great candidate - and at the end of the day no one from the bible belt, the sun belt will give their vote to him over a Texas republican. Mass LIberals are too easy to make fun of - its just that simple. if we want Bush out... its wesley clark or bust

01-20-2004, 01:36 PM	#10
tailgators Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Kingston, NY Posts: 3,975	[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Jan 20 2004, 02:23 PM [b] tail think about this objectively John kerry is a fine candidate but no JFK. The chances of this man, a Mass Liberal winning a general election over Dubya from Texas are slim to none. Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton... these are successful SOUTHERN democrats. Heck even Al gore came within a hair's breadth... remember the last Mass liberal the Dems trotted out (also against a Bush) Dukakis got slaughtered. Kerry is the same way. Non-descript. A good but not great candidate - and at the end of the day no one from the bible belt, the sun belt will give their vote to him over a Texas republican. Mass LIberals are too easy to make fun of - its just that simple. if we want Bush out... its wesley clark or bust [/b][/quote] Forty four years ago they said a southern man could never be elected president. That's one of the reasons why LBJ accepted the VP spot when JFK offered it to him. Look how that's changed. In today's America regionalism matters less and less. People move so frequently that they have ties to many different areas of the country. John Kerry can't be painted as just another Mass Liberal. He outflanks Bush at every turn. His energy policy alone offers so many solutions to America from econimic to domestic security to foreign relations. No one is even close. BTW bit... if your going to vote for a Republican, you might as well vote for the one with the ® by his name.

01-20-2004, 01:47 PM	#11
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[quote][i]Originally posted by tailgators[/i]@Jan 20 2004, 02:36 PM [b] BTW bit... if your going to vote for a Republican, you might as well vote for the one with the ® by his name. [/b][/quote] nice use of the R entity... still you better watch yourself Tail, bashing Clark now means more backtracking when its time to vote for him. the way i see it all Kerry did was lead block Dean out of the way for Clark's big week - Clark will be on CNN @8pm with Zahn prior to the Bush SoU speech... the surge continues

01-20-2004, 01:58 PM	#12
tailgators Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Kingston, NY Posts: 3,975	[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Jan 20 2004, 02:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Jan 20 2004, 02:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--tailgators[/i]@Jan 20 2004, 02:36 PM [b] BTW bit... if your going to vote for a Republican, you might as well vote for the one with the ® by his name. [/b][/quote] nice use of the R entity... still you better watch yourself Tail, bashing Clark now means more backtracking when its time to vote for him. the way i see it all Kerry did was lead block Dean out of the way for Clark's big week - Clark will be on CNN @8pm with Zahn prior to the Bush SoU speech... the surge continues [/b][/quote] bit...How do we know who the real Clark is? Is he the guy who gave speeches that raised money for Bush and the Republicans in 2001 and 2002 or is it the guy we see now? He's too inconsistant for me. Kerry's the guy!

01-20-2004, 01:59 PM	#13
Jet Set Junta All League Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 851	He'd better have a pretty big media surge planned, because getting 0% in the first caucus -- even one he didn't bother personally canvassing for strategic reasons -- is not a good sign of having a diversified fanbase. I'm really interested to see what he does in NH, and what happens if/when Edwards is dropped out. There were rumors floating around last week that when Kucinich bails he'll endorse Clark -- I'd like to see this if only to watch heads across Ithaca explode. Would make all the snow turn pink.

01-20-2004, 01:59 PM	#14
MARYLAND JET All League Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Middletown Md Posts: 673	[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Jan 20 2004, 02:23 PM [b] remember the last Mass liberal the Dems trotted out (also against a Bush) Dukakis got slaughtered. Kerry is the same way. Non-descript. A good but not great candidate - and at the end of the day no one from the bible belt, the sun belt will give their vote to him over a Texas republican. Mass LIberals are too easy to make fun of - its just that simple. [/b][/quote] Totally agree with that analysis..... While I'm voting for Bush against whomever the dem's trot out there my personal opinion is that the one guy who really could give Bush a run for his money is Edwards..... Think about it for a minute..... Dean.....is considered too volitile and inexperienced for the masses. Kerry.....see above. Clark.....the jury is still out on him but as a conservative I like our chances, he's not as polished a politician as he should be and I think in a one on one against President Bush he'd be eaten alive. But Edwards.....he scares me a little.....southern democrats play well in the bible belt and he seems to be well spoken and polished, he's got a certain " slickness " that I think would play well with some of the more naive voters...and...as trivial as it is you can't discount the fact that he's considered good looking because it can only help him. { it sure helped JFK }. I hope the democratic voters focus on either Kerry or Clark and discount the one guy who may actually come close to getting them what they want.....Edwards.

01-20-2004, 02:51 PM	#15
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[quote][i]Originally posted by MARYLAND JET[/i]@Jan 20 2004, 02:59 PM [b] Clark.....the jury is still out on him but as a conservative I like our chances, he's not as polished a politician as he should be and I think in a one on one against President Bush he'd be eaten alive. [/b][/quote] listen to Clark speak about "borrowing a flight suit and prancing around on a carrier" and you might just change your tune, MDJet. Clark takes guff from no man, and unlike Bush actually has a brain between his ears.

01-20-2004, 03:53 PM	#16
shakin318 Beslubbering beef-witted lout Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Funkytown Posts: 7,177	[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Jan 20 2004, 03:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Jan 20 2004, 03:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--MARYLAND JET[/i]@Jan 20 2004, 02:59 PM [b] Clark.....the jury is still out on him but as a conservative I like our chances, he's not as polished a politician as he should be and I think in a one on one against President Bush he'd be eaten alive. [/b][/quote] listen to Clark speak about "borrowing a flight suit and prancing around on a carrier" and you might just change your tune, MDJet. Clark takes guff from no man, and unlike Bush actually has a brain between his ears. [/b][/quote] Wow bit...the guy can make childish accusations?! Where do I sign?... I'd love to find a link to his discussion of "swapping military hats with a brutal mass murderer and posing ignorantly in front of a camera"...yeah, that would be cool...

01-20-2004, 04:20 PM	#17
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	shakin i don't have that but i do have a link of Rumsfeld slappin skins with Saddam will that do?

01-20-2004, 04:33 PM	#18
Govjetz All League Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: NE PA Posts: 968	Howard Dean is spaz did anyone see him berate that guy who ask him a question and told him to sit down and shut up.......... John Edwards is Damien Thorne...................IMO only Edwards and Clark can beat Bush

01-23-2004, 01:19 PM	#19
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[b]tail[/b] its articles like this that make me worry about Kerry's electablity [url=http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,109259,00.html]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,109259,00.html[/url] at the end of the day he's a mass liberal with the same initials as JFK but without the charisma of jfk... the last thing the democrats need is to run another dukakis the issue of whether he would make a fine president is not a question... its about playing to the undecideds/swaying Conservatives, especially in the heartland/south. the fact that he's married the Heinz queen is another point of contention i've already seen Rush and others harping on...as this article is showing, the term "limosene liberal" is already rearing its ugly head

01-23-2004, 01:44 PM	#20
tailgators Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Kingston, NY Posts: 3,975	[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Jan 23 2004, 02:19 PM [b] [b]tail[/b] its articles like this that make me worry about Kerry's electablity [URL=http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,109259,00.html] [/b][/quote] Nonsense bit, don't swing at a pitch in the dirt. First of all consider the source. Second of all while most Americans see the image of Ted Kennedy as polarizing, they also overwhelmingly agree with the way he votes in the Senate. Whether people realize it or not the best friend they have in the United States Congress is Senator Kennedy. No one takes a back seat to his vigorous defense of the programs (Social Security, Medi-care) that most middle class people in the United States depend on. So it shouldn't surprise people that Senator Kerry also is a champion of their causes, and this will serve him well over the next 9-10 months.