How does everyone feel about McCourty at 29? - Page 2 - Jets Insider.com Forums

Revi$_I$l@nd · 03-24-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradis

to quote 9/10 of the board last year who were yelling at me.. "its not a 1st rnd worthy need" at the moment.

Are you really comparing this to Pettigrew?

lol

augustiniak · 03-24-2010, 04:40 PM

let's say the war room debate is between tate, mccourtney or kindle. the thinking is that a DE can be had in round 2. which is the greater value, the rush lb, the wr or the db?

TheMikeIsHot · 03-24-2010, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustiniak

let's say the war room debate is between tate, mccourtney or kindle. the thinking is that a DE can be had in round 2. which is the greater value, the rush lb, the wr or the db?

I think the dropoff from D. Williams and D. Thomas to the late 2nd round WRs (Shipley, Ford, Decker are all big reaches) is much sharper than it is for the CBs (P. Robinson, Spievey, Cox, Franks, Murphy) and the OLBs (Misi, Worilds, Gibson, Norwood).

Beerfish · 03-24-2010, 05:17 PM

1. McCourty has return value

Lets get a returner in that case. As soon as a CB starts getting lots of playing time his days as a returner are usually over.

2. Gunner for special teams

These guys just get smacked around on each and every play, not worth getting your 1st round pick smacked on each special teams play.

3. May be better at the nickel in September than Lowery.

Probably would be, the big question is how many snaps a game are you in the nickel?

4. Let's Lowery be your fourth CB, or a Cover Safety, which he was born to play.

If they thought Lowrey could play safety I'm thinking they would have tried that already.

5. A hedge against Cromartie blowing up. There is an assumption that San Deigo got robbed and that they are not very bright ( Cromartie & LT ) but the Jets were wrong about Lito, and the Eagles look like a better judge of talent.

Valid point.

6. It's a long season, you need some depth

As with any other position. We could use some depth at oline, lb, etc

.

Paradis · 03-24-2010, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beerfish

1. McCourty has return value

Lets get a returner in that case. As soon as a CB starts getting lots of playing time his days as a returner are usually over.

2. Gunner for special teams

These guys just get smacked around on each and every play, not worth getting your 1st round pick smacked on each special teams play.

3. May be better at the nickel in September than Lowery.

Probably would be, the big question is how many snaps a game are you in the nickel?

4. Let's Lowery be your fourth CB, or a Cover Safety, which he was born to play.

If they thought Lowrey could play safety I'm thinking they would have tried that already.

5. A hedge against Cromartie blowing up. There is an assumption that San Deigo got robbed and that they are not very bright ( Cromartie & LT ) but the Jets were wrong about Lito, and the Eagles look like a better judge of talent.

Valid point.

6. It's a long season, you need some depth

As with any other position. We could use some depth at oline, lb, etc

.

Yes! thank you for thinking for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revi$_I$l@nd

Are you really comparing this to Pettigrew?

lol

You weren't even here for Pettigrew-gate '09. And yes dammit.

flgreen · 03-24-2010, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woody56

So you think Tannenbaum saying they wont draft a CB at 29, is a smokescreen?

He never said they “Wouldn’t” draft a CB. He said they didn’t “have to” draft a CB.

JetOrange · 03-24-2010, 10:34 PM

.
. McCourty has return value
Lets get a returner in that case. As soon as a CB starts getting lots of playing time his days as a returner are usually over.

Agreed. Although a short term solution, special teams , may be the key for this team to get to the next level. Field Position is vital for Ground & Pound. Westoff may have control of this draft after the Fourth round.

2. Gunner for special teams

These guys just get smacked around on each and every play, not worth getting your 1st round pick smacked on each special teams play..
McCourty Is a tough guy, Wallace Wright is in Carolina
3. May be better at the nickel in September than Lowery.Probably would be, the big question is how many snaps a game are you in the nickel?
With all the 3 , 4 and 5 receiver sets plenty, plus special teams.
4. Let's Lowery be your fourth CB, or a Cover Safety, which he was born to play.

If they thought Lowrey could play safety I'm thinking they would have tried that already.
I am certainly in the minority on this one. Pool, Smith and Digs have similar skills, strong against the run, questionable coverage. Rhodes is no longer with us, its a new ballgame. In this Pass Happy league, with,3,4,5 WR sets, hybrid TE's I think you need a true Cover Safety. IMHO a strong part of Lowery's game is his Ball Skills (visions of Ed Reed). Wouldn't it be interesting if he was able to do more with the Safety position (closer to ED) than Kerry.
5. A hedge against Cromartie blowing up. There is an assumption that San Deigo got robbed and that they are not very bright ( Cromartie & LT ) but the Jets were wrong about Lito, and the Eagles look like a better judge of talent.

Valid point.

6. It's a long season, you need some depth

As with any other position. We could use some depth at oline, lb, etc

. McCourty is a great pick, but I would take Kindle, Graham, Odrick and even Iupati over the Rutgers corner.

JetOrange · 03-24-2010, 10:54 PM

Kindly note, in "Draft Daddys" updated mock. McCourty goes to the Eagles with the 24th pick.

palmetto defender · 03-25-2010, 10:27 AM

Since the Jets are so fraidy scared of Manning, Brady and Brees maybe they should draft a CB in the first and second and a Safety in the fourth and fifth.

Nonsense. The Jets have maybe the best CB in the NFL and Cromartie is a top flight guy. Maybe the best opposite side CB.
They are both young. Lowery is around. Pick up a reserve in the fourth or fifth round.
The principal needs are DE or OLB in round 1 and round 2. The DEs are old. Everybody here hate the OLBs (except Pace - maybe). Then get a WR after. Use lower round picks as ST guys not high draft picks.
The Jets are the number one pass defense in the NFL. They look better now than last year with their acquisitions.
There is only ONE first round pick. You want a guy who can play day 1. At least in a rotation when it counts.

bitonti · 03-25-2010, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palmetto defender

There is only ONE first round pick. You want a guy who can play day 1. At least in a rotation when it counts.

im not a huge Mccourty at 29 guy but nickel CB is just as much a starting role as #3 Wr... and it's more impactful than #5 DL (Ellis, Jenks, Pouha, Devito) or #4OLB (Pace, Thomas, Gholston). a DL or OLB would be a rotational guy too, not a starter... at least not this year. The only DLs who start day 1 on this team is Suh or McCoy.

SenorGato · 03-25-2010, 11:08 AM

^^^ I think your meant 3rd DL guy since there's no starter at DE. If you want to plug DeVito as a stater for next year, then the draftee would be the 4th guy and he'd be rotated heavily. Cody comes to mind...he'd take snaps at DE...NT...DT in 4-3 packages...

I don't throw in Pouha because he's strictly the backup NT IMO.

palmetto defender · 03-25-2010, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

im not a huge Mccourty at 29 guy but nickel CB is just as much a starting role as #3 Wr... and it's more impactful than #5 DL (Ellis, Jenks, Pouha, Devito) or #4OLB (Pace, Thomas, Gholston). a DL or OLB would be a rotational guy too, not a starter... at least not this year. The only DLs who start day 1 on this team is Suh or McCoy.

The Jets already have the #1 pass D.
I would NEVER call for drafting a WR at 29. Unnecessary. Round 4 for the slot.
The best DE available at 29 is better than Devito. Pouha and Jenks are NTs. Ellis is how old and with a problem with our little friend Maryjane? Douglas (not signed) is how old?
At OLB. Posters here are lambasting Gholston and Thomas as garbage. If so, why not get a guy who can play. There are even people here on JI that think Pace stinks.
Again, why not draft ALL CBs and Safeties. That way you're always protected against injury and failure.
And what if Sanchez goes down? Should the Jets draft Tebow or Colt McCoy to backup? Gotta be covered, especially foer the most important position.

bitonti · 03-25-2010, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorGato

^^^ I think your meant 3rd DL guy since there's no starter at DE. If you want to plug DeVito as a stater for next year, then the draftee would be the 4th guy and he'd be rotated heavily. Cody comes to mind...he'd take snaps at DE...NT...DT in 4-3 packages...

I don't throw in Pouha because he's strictly the backup NT IMO.

the only players in 2010 draft who start day 1 over Devito is a Suh or McCoy type super prospect. Devito is very underrated and is a real starter in the league. The other DL will take time... and will be rotational player, I think we agree on that point. The CS isn't gonna play a rookie DE because Pouha and Jenks are NT... they will get the best 3 or 4 guys out there for a given situation. All this adds up to a rookie DL is probably on the 2nd team DL at least in 2010.

Similar a 3-4 OLB would be behind at least Thomas and Pace... so he'd be on the 2nd team as well. Gholston could turn it around... or not but either way this rookie is 3rd or 4th OLB at best... a special teamer in other words.

and that's not even considering sleepers already on the roster like Pitoitua, Westerman, Kroul... etc.

meanwhile a nickel CB will play about half the snaps on defense... way more than a rotational DL.

Drew Coleman isn't keeping Devin McCourty on the bench. In fact Drew Coleman is a liability out there. Dwight Lowery is ok but very beatable. there are no DB sleepers. Bo Smith?

LIke i said im not a huge "cb at 29" guy but if we are talking about impact, that is an impact pick... especially considering 1) McCourty can return kicks and punts 2) Cro is a huge question mark right now. This time last year we were in a similar situation hoping for Lito Sheppard to be a starter... Cro could be another Lito Sheppard... it's at least a possibility.

bitonti · 03-25-2010, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palmetto defender

The best DE available at 29 is better than Devito.

this is where we disagree. Who is this player?

JetsFanJim · 03-25-2010, 11:45 AM

I like McCourty as a player but i just can't envision a scenario where he is the best player available at 29. There are a lot of players I think fit the Jets better that should be available. Between Odrick, Graham, Thomas, Tate, Mays, Cody, etc...

palmetto defender · 03-25-2010, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

this is where we disagree. Who is this player?

Both Odrick and Dunlap are better than Devito IMO. Devito is a nice player. I like him as a reserve. i do not think there is much upside. That does not mean he is not important and should not be at every game. He is versatile as well.
The above maybe around at 29. I mean everybody can't be drafted before 29. If not, then best avail OLB. He is ceratinly better than Gholston or Westerman and maybe better than Thomas.

bitonti · 03-25-2010, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palmetto defender

Both Odrick and Dunlap are better than Devito IMO. Devito is a nice player. I like him as a reserve. i do not think there is much upside. That does not mean he is not important and should not be at every game. He is versatile as well.
The above maybe around at 29. I mean everybody can't be drafted before 29. If not, then best avail OLB. He is ceratinly better than Gholston or Westerman and maybe better than Thomas.

On paper Odrick and Dunlap should be better than Devito.

but on the field they aren't... not yet. They clearly have more upside. but it takes years for upside to develop... if it develops at all

if we are talking about 2012 i can see the case that Odrick or Dunlap are better... but under the banner of "instant impact" it's extremely rare than any defensive lineman makes an instant impact in the league. When they do it's a top 10 pick like Kevin Williams.

augustiniak · 03-25-2010, 12:50 PM

jerry hughes is not the same player as devito, but i believe he's what everyone hoped out of gholston. he's the kind of guy rex could put anywhere, kind of like suggs.

palmetto defender · 03-25-2010, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustiniak

jerry hughes is not the same player as devito, but i believe he's what everyone hoped out of gholston. he's the kind of guy rex could put anywhere, kind of like suggs.

By not the same as Devito, you mean not the same position as I understand it.
Hughes and Kindle are both going to be top flight OLBs. Maybe. It's all a crapshoot. Suh and McCoy might wind up dogs or hurt. Nothing is 100%.
McCourty. I like him, just not now that the Jets got Cromartie. I would say I'd be more than 50/50 for him if the Jets had not made that move.
Next move DE. I have said before I would not kill myself if the Jets go OLB though.

Untouchable · 03-25-2010, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

On paper Odrick and Dunlap should be better than Devito.

but on the field they aren't... not yet. They clearly have more upside. but it takes years for upside to develop... if it develops at all

if we are talking about 2012 i can see the case that Odrick or Dunlap are better... but under the banner of "instant impact" it's extremely rare than any defensive lineman makes an instant impact in the league. When they do it's a top 10 pick like Kevin Williams.

C'mon now.

Let's not make DeVito out to be something he's not. The guy is a solid rotational player, making him out to be anything more than that is sheer optimism.

It's not even that we just lost Douglas (who could've been upgraded regardless), it also has to do with this year likely being Ellis' last with the team. Not to mention the uncertain status of Jenkins. Pouha is a solid backup at nosetackle but I don't want to rely on him playing up to '09 par again.

You continually mention guys like Kroul and Steinkouhler, but until proven otherwise, their nothing more than training camp fodder at this point.

I still say that getting some young talent along the DL should be our top priority. If not at #29, then definitely in the 2nd round.

Jared Odrick, Terrence Cody, Brian Price, Lamarr Houston, Corey Wootton, Tyson Alualu, Alex Carrington...I'd love to add any of those guys to the DL.

03-24-2010, 04:40 PM	#22
augustiniak All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 8,124	let's say the war room debate is between tate, mccourtney or kindle. the thinking is that a DE can be had in round 2. which is the greater value, the rush lb, the wr or the db?

03-24-2010, 05:17 PM	#24
Beerfish Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 19,090	1. McCourty has return value Lets get a returner in that case. As soon as a CB starts getting lots of playing time his days as a returner are usually over. 2. Gunner for special teams These guys just get smacked around on each and every play, not worth getting your 1st round pick smacked on each special teams play. 3. May be better at the nickel in September than Lowery. Probably would be, the big question is how many snaps a game are you in the nickel? 4. Let's Lowery be your fourth CB, or a Cover Safety, which he was born to play. If they thought Lowrey could play safety I'm thinking they would have tried that already. 5. A hedge against Cromartie blowing up. There is an assumption that San Deigo got robbed and that they are not very bright ( Cromartie & LT ) but the Jets were wrong about Lito, and the Eagles look like a better judge of talent. Valid point. 6. It's a long season, you need some depth As with any other position. We could use some depth at oline, lb, etc .

03-24-2010, 10:34 PM	#27
JetOrange All League Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,718	. . McCourty has return value Lets get a returner in that case. As soon as a CB starts getting lots of playing time his days as a returner are usually over. Agreed. Although a short term solution, special teams , may be the key for this team to get to the next level. Field Position is vital for Ground & Pound. Westoff may have control of this draft after the Fourth round. 2. Gunner for special teams These guys just get smacked around on each and every play, not worth getting your 1st round pick smacked on each special teams play.. McCourty Is a tough guy, Wallace Wright is in Carolina 3. May be better at the nickel in September than Lowery.Probably would be, the big question is how many snaps a game are you in the nickel? With all the 3 , 4 and 5 receiver sets plenty, plus special teams. 4. Let's Lowery be your fourth CB, or a Cover Safety, which he was born to play. If they thought Lowrey could play safety I'm thinking they would have tried that already. I am certainly in the minority on this one. Pool, Smith and Digs have similar skills, strong against the run, questionable coverage. Rhodes is no longer with us, its a new ballgame. In this Pass Happy league, with,3,4,5 WR sets, hybrid TE's I think you need a true Cover Safety. IMHO a strong part of Lowery's game is his Ball Skills (visions of Ed Reed). Wouldn't it be interesting if he was able to do more with the Safety position (closer to ED) than Kerry. 5. A hedge against Cromartie blowing up. There is an assumption that San Deigo got robbed and that they are not very bright ( Cromartie & LT ) but the Jets were wrong about Lito, and the Eagles look like a better judge of talent. Valid point. 6. It's a long season, you need some depth As with any other position. We could use some depth at oline, lb, etc . McCourty is a great pick, but I would take Kindle, Graham, Odrick and even Iupati over the Rutgers corner.

03-24-2010, 10:54 PM	#28
JetOrange All League Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,718	Kindly note, in "Draft Daddys" updated mock. McCourty goes to the Eagles with the 24th pick.

03-25-2010, 10:27 AM	#29
palmetto defender All League Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 4,687	Since the Jets are so fraidy scared of Manning, Brady and Brees maybe they should draft a CB in the first and second and a Safety in the fourth and fifth. Nonsense. The Jets have maybe the best CB in the NFL and Cromartie is a top flight guy. Maybe the best opposite side CB. They are both young. Lowery is around. Pick up a reserve in the fourth or fifth round. The principal needs are DE or OLB in round 1 and round 2. The DEs are old. Everybody here hate the OLBs (except Pace - maybe). Then get a WR after. Use lower round picks as ST guys not high draft picks. The Jets are the number one pass defense in the NFL. They look better now than last year with their acquisitions. There is only ONE first round pick. You want a guy who can play day 1. At least in a rotation when it counts.

03-25-2010, 11:08 AM	#31
SenorGato still a little buzzed. Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 8,281	^^^ I think your meant 3rd DL guy since there's no starter at DE. If you want to plug DeVito as a stater for next year, then the draftee would be the 4th guy and he'd be rotated heavily. Cody comes to mind...he'd take snaps at DE...NT...DT in 4-3 packages... I don't throw in Pouha because he's strictly the backup NT IMO.

03-25-2010, 11:45 AM	#35
JetsFanJim All League Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 511	I like McCourty as a player but i just can't envision a scenario where he is the best player available at 29. There are a lot of players I think fit the Jets better that should be available. Between Odrick, Graham, Thomas, Tate, Mays, Cody, etc...

03-25-2010, 12:50 PM	#38
augustiniak All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 8,124	jerry hughes is not the same player as devito, but i believe he's what everyone hoped out of gholston. he's the kind of guy rex could put anywhere, kind of like suggs.