UNDERRATED MUSICIANS

[Borgoguy]

Originally Posted by RageATL

Vinnie also played on Sting's "Ten Summoner's Tales" as well as the resulting tour.

Although I don't play myself, I'm a drum guy. I'll throw Manu Katche in the ring here speaking of drummers on Sting albums:

I like his vibe/big tone. Thanks, Rage.

If we're talking about underrated drummers, I'll add Chad Smith (Chili Peppers/Chickenfoot) and Lee Kerslake of Uriah Heep and Ozzy's Diary of a Madman record.

[AFCEastFan]

Originally Posted by Borgoguy

First, where the hell did you pull out Nik Kershaw? LOL. I haven't thought of that guy since the 80s.

More importantly, thanks for pointing out, and sharing, that deceptively insane fill. I must have listened to that "hi-hat flourish" 10 times and it gets more amazing each time. You're right that it's "filthy" in a very good way. How artists like Colaiuta think of that stuff is what makes them truly gifted. I think it was WCO a while back who said Zappa loved Colaiuta because of his complete understanding of, and ability to play,complex time signatures.

Great post, AFC. That made my day.

LOL. I had never heard of Nik Kershaw, but I happened to hear the song randomly on XM while I was in the car and I almost drove off the road when I heard the drums. I couldn't wait to google the song when I got home because I knew it just had to be someone big time. My guess was Jeff Porcaro, but when I found out it was Vinnie, it made even more sense.

And you nailed it with your description of what makes someone like Vinnie so gifted. As the drummer on the instructional video shows, with enough diligence and practice, you can teach yourself to play remarkably well even a complicated and counter-intuitive fill like this one. But to actually think of a fill like that and insert it so seamlessly in a song where you wouldn't in a million years think it could possibly fit really underscores Vinnie's incredible talent. And I'm willing to bet he spent minimal time actually devising the fill and probably laid it down in one take.

[AFCEastFan]

Originally Posted by RageATL

Vinnie also played on Sting's "Ten Summoner's Tales" as well as the resulting tour.

Although I don't play myself, I'm a drum guy. I'll throw Manu Katche in the ring here speaking of drummers on Sting albums:

Another good call. I don't have a clip handy, but my favorite Manu performance is live with Peter Gabriel on "Red Rain". You should check that out if you are a fan of Manu.

[RageATL]

Originally Posted by Borgoguy

I like his vibe/big tone. Thanks, Rage.

If we're talking about underrated drummers, I'll add Chad Smith (Chili Peppers/Chickenfoot) and Lee Kerslake of Uriah Heep and Ozzy's Diary of a Madman record.

He's put out several jazz CDs on ECM that I really enjoy. They're very chill jazz albums, cool in tone but the playing is phenomenal:

"Number One" from the album "Neighbourhood":

[Hitman Harris]

Kinah Boto (aka Woody Williams)
This guy HAS to easily be one of the most underrated drummer/percussionists/musicians out there.
Maybe Rage has heard of this guy as he is out of Atlanta and teaches (or at least taught) at UGA
I knew him when he went by Woody Williams. I've never seen anyone that can do what this guy does.
He can make melodies on the drums, literally.
He used to do a solo drum gig at a club in Atl called MJQ(now Drunken Unicorn) where he played a very small kit and had all kinds of percussion and hand drums.
Me and a friend used to tech for him at these gigs in return for lessons received by my friend.
Sometimes he'd make a kit out of different kick pedals on tambourine, cowbell or other things as he played Bata drums or other percussion.
This guy can play 4 different rhythms at the same time. It's unbelievable.
One time I got to jam with him and he gave me the most simple beat on the Conga and the stuff he did around it absolutely blew my mind and I couldn't believe I was (even if in such a minor way) contributing to these insane rhythms that were going on.
I can't even begin to explain it but it made me feel dizzy.
The guy can break up time and rhythms effortlessly and you don't even realize how crazy some of the stuff he does is until a few seconds later as you are in awe of what he's doing... I can't explain it, the closest way to explain it is just that he bends the time somehow and it makes you feel like you just got off a boat and you are on solid ground but you still feel like you are moving.
I can't find any solo stuff and a lot of people seem to think he stopped playing because he doesn't go by Woody Williams anymore.
Dude should be famous... Or at least known of.





BTW, that one very simple beat I played quickly became the hardest thing I've ever played.

[WestCoastOffensive]

Originally Posted by Borgoguy

First, where the hell did you pull out Nik Kershaw? LOL. I haven't thought of that guy since the 80s.

More importantly, thanks for pointing out, and sharing, that deceptively insane fill. I must have listened to that "hi-hat flourish" 10 times and it gets more amazing each time. You're right that it's "filthy" in a very good way. How artists like Colaiuta think of that stuff is what makes them truly gifted. I think it was WCO a while back who said Zappa loved Colaiuta because of his complete understanding of, and ability to play,complex time signatures.

Great post, AFC. That made my day.

I have to get home to enjoy teh music, but I'd like to remind everyone that Mike Clark (wrote "Actual Proof" for Herbie Hancock) is the GOAT hi-hat player. He totally revolutionized how the high hat was played, no lie.

He plays with the "Headhunters" today (no affiliation with Herbie).

[RageATL]

Originally Posted by WestCoastOffensive

I have to get home to enjoy teh music, but I'd like to remind everyone that Mike Clark (wrote "Actual Proof" for Herbie Hancock) is the GOAT hi-hat player. He totally revolutionized how the high hat was played, no lie.

He plays with the "Headhunters" today (no affiliation with Herbie).

I've always liked Stewart Copeland's high-hat work, so I'll have to check out Mike Clark.

[GetaLife]

Alice Cooper.

The original heavy metal artist..

A true legend not even in the Hall of Fame..

Brilliant stage shows and sings the songs you want to hear!!!

[ubrnostrum]

Originally Posted by AFCEastFan

You're talking about the same Jack White that Rolling Stone magazine ranked as the 17th greatest guitar player of all time (over 60 spots ahead of Derek Trucks)? Not underrated.

THen, for the first time in my life, I believe that Rolling Stone is correct. Yes, I think that Jack White is a better guitar player than Derek Trucks. Jack White's playing hits me harder than Derek Trucks's ever will.

He should NEVER be 17th though. That's just ludicrous.

[RageATL]

Originally Posted by ubrnostrum

Yes, I think that Jack White is a better guitar player than Derek Trucks.

WOW, to each their own, but wow.

[5 Miles Out]

Underated


1) Steve Hackett

2) Ned's Atomic Dustbin

3) Jah Wobble


Overated

1) White Stripes

2) Runs 'n' Goses

3) Depeche Mode

[Borgoguy]

Originally Posted by GetaLife

Alice Cooper.

The original heavy metal artist..

A true legend not even in the Hall of Fame..

Brilliant stage shows and sings the songs you want to hear!!!

I was going to list Alice, but wasn't sure if someone as iconic could be thought of as truly underrated. (Back in the 70s, he was a monster act who everyone knew and was talking about, good or bad.) After your post--and thinking about it--he probably doesn't get the credit he deserves in terms of starting the shock rock genre and Grand-Guignol stage persona, which was adopted by performers such as Kiss, Marilyn Manson, Gwar, Rob Zombie, among numerous others.

I also don't think most people appreciate Alice's strong songwriting and performing skills, or what a tight band he had in the beginning.

[Borgoguy]

Originally Posted by ubrnostrum

THen, for the first time in my life, I believe that Rolling Stone is correct. Yes, I think that Jack White is a better guitar player than Derek Trucks. Jack White's playing hits me harder than Derek Trucks's ever will.

He should NEVER be 17th though. That's just ludicrous.

We all like who we like--and you know I respect your musical knowledge--but you can't really believe this. Jack White's snarling blues based rock & roll was exactly the kick in the a$$ pop music needed when he burst onto the scene. But, no way, is he at the technical level of Trucks. White probably worships Trucks' old school blues playing.

[32green]

Originally Posted by AFCEastFan

Great call, Borgo. As a self-appointed member of the drumming cognoscenti, I will say that Vinnie probably has the best chops of any drummer I have ever heard. He also does the single nastiest fill I have ever heard inserted into a pop song. Check out the fill at 3:16-3:19 on Don't Ask Me by Nik Kershaw (not a bad little song in its own right, I might add). If anyone is interested, I've also attached a very nice (and detailed) break-down of the fill. It is just filthy . . . only Vinnie could make a fill like that work in a pop song.

Great pick....I love songs that have little moments like that...little tension/release goose bump hits to the brain synapses...

At 2:27 of this one...a little pick slide on the guitar string/drum smash combo....

Brings out the head banger/garage band child in me...

[Borgoguy]

Originally Posted by 32green

Great pick....I love songs that have little moments like that...little tension/release goose bump hits to the brain synapses...

At 2:27 of this one...a little pick slide on the guitar string/drum smash combo....

Brings out the head banger/garage band child in me...

Love that song.

[32green]

Originally Posted by Borgoguy

Love that song.

Been around the world and found that only stupid people are breeding, the cretins cloning and feeding, and I dont even own a TV.

[PlumberKhan]

Musical "technical-ness" isn't much of a yardstick to measure by. Music is an artform...would you rate the world's renowned painters by their ability to draw the most realistic face?

In music, the notes you don't play can be as important as the ones you do, the simplest of riffs can inspire the most emotion in a listener. Look at what happened in the early 90's...people grew tired of the unnecessary complexity of late 80's metal, with 100 piece drumkits, 4 guitarists, double necked guitars, keyboardists and all the glam, special effects etc. 3 grubby kids from sh*thole Seattle promptly jettisoned all that in street cloths with a simple 4 chord progression that most of the late 80's technical guitarists would have LOL'ed at

[AFCEastFan]

Originally Posted by Borgoguy

Love that song.

+1. Great stuff, 32.

[Beerfish]

Originally Posted by AFCEastFan

Another good call. I don't have a clip handy, but my favorite Manu performance is live with Peter Gabriel on "Red Rain". You should check that out if you are a fan of Manu.

One of my very favorite songs.

[Beerfish]

Not an underrated group but an underrated song of theirs in my opinion. The background vibe of this song (king harvest) is just awesome.