Baltimore Roster

[TheMo]

Originally Posted by Much ado about Nothing

I mean no offense to our DL, who are a scrappy bunch, but they don't get enough knocking for the lack of pass rush. The OLBs take alot of crap but Pace on the field and healthy is a beast, and Thomas is basically Jarrett Johnson without the white skin and the perks of that (GRITTY, SCRAPPY, GRINDER etc)...Not that Thomas isn't cuttable and shouldn't be replaced ASAP.

Improve the DL, improve the pass rush. It's basically the only unit on the team that's been untouched since '07...except for the Jenkins trade and he's played maybe 20 games here in 3 years...not surprisingly our pass rush steps it up a notch or three when he has been on the field.

Oh, and Bart Scott is our best LB. This D would fall apart without the guy, and his impact over the past two years has been just underrated by this fanbase. If Scott was as loud and obnoxious as Ray Lewis...and he can be...he'd be screaming his head off for a big mofo to open up some road for the LBs to travel...Lewis of course did this in '06 and the Ravens went out and traded up for that Ngata f*cker...Lewis' career receives a little renaissance and he has a great 5 year stretch after a decent at best for Ray Lewis 3-4 year stretch beforehand.

Yes on all counts! This is the answer folks we need DL that crush the pocket and demand double teams. Not one single player on this team demands the double, much less a triple team. I'd personally give up Harris for a good pick/picks if it meant some more pass rushing in the front 7.

[IRONFAN 40]

Originally Posted by Much ado about Nothing

I mean no offense to our DL, who are a scrappy bunch, but they don't get enough knocking for the lack of pass rush. The OLBs take alot of crap but Pace on the field and healthy is a beast, and Thomas is basically Jarrett Johnson without the white skin and the perks of that (GRITTY, SCRAPPY, GRINDER etc)...Not that Thomas isn't cuttable and shouldn't be replaced ASAP.

Improve the DL, improve the pass rush. It's basically the only unit on the team that's been untouched since '07...except for the Jenkins trade and he's played maybe 20 games here in 3 years...not surprisingly our pass rush steps it up a notch or three when he has been on the field.

Oh, and Bart Scott is our best LB. This D would fall apart without the guy, and his impact over the past two years has been just underrated by this fanbase. If Scott was as loud and obnoxious as Ray Lewis...and he can be...he'd be screaming his head off for a big mofo to open up some road for the LBs to travel...Lewis of course did this in '06 and the Ravens went out and traded up for that Ngata f*cker...Lewis' career receives a little renaissance and he has a great 5 year stretch after a decent at best for Ray Lewis 3-4 year stretch beforehand.

I disagree about Scott being our best LB. Vocal leader yes, skill wise not better then Harris.Harris blitzes better and tackles better.Name me one play where Scott came up the middle and just blew up the QB or RB.I've seen Scott over and over again get stood up at the line when blitzing.

[TheMo]

Originally Posted by IRONFAN 40

I disagree about Scott being our best LB. Vocal leader yes, skill wise not better then Harris.Harris blitzes better and tackles better.Name me one play where Scott came up the middle and just blew up the QB or RB.I've seen Scott over and over again get stood up at the line when blitzing.

Well to that point most of Harris' sacks are when he comes in clean and he only had 3 so he is not some elite pass rusher. I have argued again and again that he is inferior to Scott as far as run defense is concerned. Does he make a big tackle? Sure but he is not the lynchpin. Rather its Scott who is consistently pushing OL into the running lane and making life easy for the rest of the defense.

[Much ado about Nothing]

Originally Posted by IRONFAN 40

I disagree about Scott being our best LB. Vocal leader yes, skill wise not better then Harris.Harris blitzes better and tackles better.Name me one play where Scott came up the middle and just blew up the QB or RB.I've seen Scott over and over again get stood up at the line when blitzing.

That's not Scott's job in this D...no one knows Rex's D better than Scott, except Lewis. Even then there's plenty of times he simply destroyed a RB in his time here...David Harris does alot of what he does because of Scott and Pouha's dirty work.

[IRONFAN 40]

Originally Posted by TheMo

Well to that point most of Harris' sacks are when he comes in clean and he only had 3 so he is not some elite pass rusher. I have argued again and again that he is inferior to Scott as far as run defense is concerned. Does he make a big tackle? Sure but he is not the lynchpin. Rather its Scott who is consistently pushing OL into the running lane and making life easy for the rest of the defense.

I never said Harris was elite, I said better then Scott.Scott has come in a number of blitz packages and he wasn't effective at all. Let's not forget ,even before Scott came here ,Harris numbers was up.Let's not make it seem like all of the sudden Harris is playing better just because Scott came along.

[IRONFAN 40]

Originally Posted by Much ado about Nothing

That's not Scott's job in this D...no one knows Rex's D better than Scott, except Lewis. Even then there's plenty of times he simply destroyed a RB in his time here...David Harris does alot of what he does because of Scott and Pouha's dirty work.

In a couple of sequences that was Scotts job.Rex does send him to blitz from time to time. I'm not arguing about Scott knowing the defense better then anyone else, I'm just saying skill wise Scott isn't better then Harris. Who is the defensive caller up front? Who makes the adjustments on defense at the line?Last time I looked it was number 52 not 57.

[jetstream23]

Originally Posted by Buzzsaw

I wonder how the AFCCG against Pittsburgh would've turned out if we had those two playing, or at least Jenkins....

Wouldn't have mattered IMO. No one had their mind right in the first half. Without those guys we did a much better job in the 2nd half at Pitt so that tells me it wasn't necessarily the personnel or lack of bulk up front. Our problem was mental preparedness / New England hangover which took too long to shake off.

[Much ado about Nothing]

Originally Posted by IRONFAN 40

In a couple of sequences that was Scotts job.Rex does send him to blitz from time to time. I'm not arguing about Scott knowing the defense better then anyone else, I'm just saying skill wise Scott isn't better then Harris. Who is the defensive caller up front? Who makes the adjustments on defense at the line?Last time I looked it was number 52 not 57.

Scott is a guy who threw up a 9 sack season as an ILB in his second year as a full time starter...2 INTs and 7 PD too...on top of 103 tackles...he's very, very capable of a big season. He's not Ray Lewis, but he's better than anyone from Harwell to Thomas at ILB for Rex...The fact that he's an UDFA who made himself an 8 million dollar ILB tells you pretty much everything about his talent...consistently underrated.

I'm very into the idea of tagging and trading Harris because his value is peaking. He's a very good player, but irreplaceable is just questionable. Scott and Pace are very capable of picking up the slack...Plus I'm pretty interested in this Tavares Gooden guy that might be a FA from Baltimore...good player and the perfect Harris replacement on the low and cheap.

[jetsfan1983]

Originally Posted by jetstream23

Wouldn't have mattered IMO. No one had their mind right in the first half. Without those guys we did a much better job in the 2nd half at Pitt so that tells me it wasn't necessarily the personnel or lack of bulk up front. Our problem was mental preparedness / New England hangover which took too long to shake off.

Not only that, but a lot of the runs we gave up were to the outside of our defense... In the middle, guys were able to hold their own against the run. Pouha and Devito get credit for that. The problem is with the edges of the defense and that includes guys like Pace, Thomas, and Taylor. Also Ellis. Tight Ends have gone towards the way of holding much more than they used to, but the players still have to be able to fight that off.


But I still don't get the comparison to the Baltimore roster because we were better than them when it comes to the run.

[TheMo]

Originally Posted by Much ado about Nothing

Scott is a guy who threw up a 9 sack season as an ILB in his second year as a full time starter...2 INTs and 7 PD too...on top of 103 tackles...he's very, very capable of a big season. He's not Ray Lewis, but he's better than anyone from Harwell to Thomas at ILB for Rex...The fact that he's an UDFA who made himself an 8 million dollar ILB tells you pretty much everything about his talent...consistently underrated.

I'm very into the idea of tagging and trading Harris because his value is peaking. He's a very good player, but irreplaceable is just questionable. Scott and Pace are very capable of picking up the slack...Plus I'm pretty interested in this Tavares Gooden guy that might be a FA from Baltimore...good player and the perfect Harris replacement on the low and cheap.

We can't be agreeing so much makes for lackluster debate I think trading Harris now would be very prudent as his value is as high as it ever will be (I'd argue it was higher the past two seasons... sigh). Get a couple picks hopefully and acquire more front 7 youth that can get to the QB. We should make a run at Tulloch, who I think might bolt given the absolute upheaval in Tennessee. Not sure how much he'll command though.

[TerminatorJet]

Originally Posted by TheMo

Yes on all counts! This is the answer folks we need DL that crush the pocket and demand double teams. Not one single player on this team demands the double, much less a triple team. I'd personally give up Harris for a good pick/picks if it meant some more pass rushing in the front 7.

I agree. The pass rush will improve if we can upgrade the DL - even if it's at just one spot. Our current starters on the DL are all fine but none of them are great. Remember how demonic our pass rush looked the first couple games in 2009 when we had a healthy Kris Jenkins getting doubled every play?

[TheMo]

Originally Posted by TerminatorJet

I agree. The pass rush will improve if we can upgrade the DL - even if it's at just one spot. Our current starters on the DL are all fine but none of them are great. Remember how demonic our pass rush looked the first couple games in 2009 when we had a healthy Kris Jenkins getting doubled every play?

All too well my friend hoping for heyward in the draft, backup being taylor.