Guantanamo secret files show U.S. often held innocent Afghans - Jets Insider.com Forums

cr726 · 04-27-2011, 09:13 PM

We will be in Afghanistan a long time.

[QUOTE]Guantanamo secret files show U.S. often held innocent Afghans
Tom Lasseter | McClatchy Newspapers
last updated: April 27, 2011 12:21:04 PM

WASHINGTON — Naqibullah was about 14 years old when U.S. troops detained him in December of 2002 at a suspected militant's compound in eastern Afghanistan.

The weapon he held in his hands hadn't been fired, the troops concluded, and he appeared to have been left behind with a group of cooks and errand boys when a local warlord, tipped to the raid, had fled.

A secret U.S. intelligence assessment written in 2003 concluded that Naqibullah had been kidnapped and forcibly conscripted by a warring tribe affiliated with the Taliban. The boy told interrogators that during his abduction he'd been held at gunpoint by 11 men and raped.

Nonetheless, Naqibullah was held at Guantanamo for a full year.

Afghans make up the largest group by nationality held at the Guantanamo Bay detention center, an estimated 221 men and boys in all. Yet they were frequently found to have had nothing to do with international terrorism, according to more than 750 secret intelligence assessments that were written at Guantanamo between 2002 and 2009. The assessments were obtained by WikiLeaks and passed to McClatchy.

In at least 44 cases, U.S. military intelligence officials concluded that detainees had no connection to militant activity at all, a McClatchy examination of the assessments, which cover both former and current detainees, found. The number might be even higher, but couldn't be determined from the information in some assessments, which often were just one or two pages long for Afghans who were released in 2002 and 2003.

Still, it's clear from the U.S. military's own assessments that beyond a core of senior Taliban and extremist commanders, the Afghans were in large part a jumble of conscripts, insurgents, criminals and, at times, innocent bystanders. Just 45 were classified as presenting a high threat level, and only 28 were judged to be of high intelligence value. At least 203 have now been released. In 2009, the Defense Department said that at least 11 released Afghans were confirmed or suspected of "re-engaging in terrorist activities."[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/04/26/112854/guantanamo-secret-files-show-us.html#storylink=omni_popular[/url]

AlbanyJet · 04-28-2011, 09:28 AM

I thought "Change We Can Believe In" was supposed to have closed Guantanamo by now, right?

Soon we'll have POWs from Libya there, too!

I cannot recall a US President who campaigned on so many issues, only to do the exact opposite when he got into the White House.

Do Obama-2008 voters feel like complete tools, yet?

"Yes, You Do" :O

:jets17

shakin318 · 04-28-2011, 09:44 AM

[QUOTE=cr726;4011062]We will be in Afghanistan a long time.

[url]http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/04/26/112854/guantanamo-secret-files-show-us.html#storylink=omni_popular[/url][/QUOTE]

Ask the kid if he would prefer to chill with his 3 hots and a cot in Guantanamo, or continue hanging with the 11 repeatedly-buttrape-him-at-gunpoint warlords.

cr726 · 04-28-2011, 10:08 AM

[QUOTE=shakin318;4011470]Ask the kid if he would prefer to chill with his 3 hots and a cot in Guantanamo, or continue hanging with the 11 repeatedly-buttrape-him-at-gunpoint warlords.[/QUOTE]

Great point. :rolleyes:

OCCH · 04-28-2011, 10:26 AM

[QUOTE=cr726;4011062]We will be in Afghanistan a long time.

[url]http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/04/26/112854/guantanamo-secret-files-show-us.html#storylink=omni_popular[/url][/QUOTE]

Last I checked, innocent Americans are also being imprisoned here in the states. The facts seem to prove guilt, but it is later determined those facts were wrong/misleading. It doesn't change the fact that sometimes people are imprisoned for the APPEARANCE of wrongdoing.

Do I want out of Afghanistan? Of course. But as long as we're there, I have no problem with the imprisonment of someone holding a gun during a raid, then being released when it is determined he is innocent (of course, if he is like the many who go back and commit more terrorism, then we got played anyway . . .)

Jetworks · 04-28-2011, 10:26 AM

I don't see what the problem is here. He was detained with good reason. His "due process" took a helluva a long time, but it was eventually resolved. Are you saying that because of this he and others like him will now turn to becoming the insurgency/terrorists?

FF2® · 04-28-2011, 10:26 AM

I'm sure they must have something bad at sometime in their lives. They're Muslam's right?

JetPotato · 04-28-2011, 10:36 AM

Why hasn't Bob Dylan written a song about this yet? Maybe he can just update the Hurrican Carter one like Elton did with Candle in the Wind for that Princess chick.

DeanPatsFan · 04-28-2011, 10:37 AM

[QUOTE=FF2®;4011551]I'm sure they must have something bad at sometime in their lives. They're Muslam's right?[/QUOTE]

Of course not silly....

Christians, Jews and Hindus have been indiscriminately slaughtering people the past three decades....

You been living under a rock?

Winstonbiggs · 04-28-2011, 10:37 AM

The sooner we put these wars and this ugly chapter of our history behind us the better.

Warfish · 04-28-2011, 10:38 AM

Don't care.

This is War.

Not Girls Softball.

Collateral Damage happens, they should be glad it's US imprisoning them wrongly, as a U.S. Prison is a few thousand times better than most, and certainly better than being "forcibly conscripted....held at gunpoint by 11 men and raped".

The system worked, they found him "innocent", and he was released, right? Not hung, or shot in the back of the head and buried in a mass grave, right? Guess we're still the good guys, cause in a wide variety of Middle Eastern Nations, innocent or not, thats what would have happened to him.

War isn't for the squeamish. One reason the U.S. is so bad at nowadays, is we are dedicated to fighting Politically Correct Nerf-War, instead of doing what it takes to win.

With that said, I will repeat my position on all three Wars: End them. They're not serving our interests, and cost vastly too much for what they are accomplishing.

cr726 · 04-28-2011, 10:43 AM

[QUOTE=Jetworks;4011550]I don't see what the problem is here. He was detained with good reason. His "due process" took a helluva a long time, but it was eventually resolved. Are you saying that because of this he and others like him will now turn to becoming the insurgency/terrorists?[/QUOTE]

A child who was a victim of a crime and was taken from his country and placed in a prison for a year is "due process"?

palmetto defender · 04-28-2011, 10:52 AM

[QUOTE=cr726;4011579]A child who was a victim of a crime and was taken from his country and placed in a prison for a year is "due process"?[/QUOTE]

Due process in combat?? This kid is lucky to be alive. Why was he carrying a rifle? You have a rifle and U.S. infantry comes along you should get shot. That applies to boys AND women/girls carrying a weapon.
A 10 year old can pull the trigger on an AK47 just as well as a man.
Sorry. The U.S. soldier comes first.

DeanPatsFan · 04-28-2011, 11:20 AM

If I were a US Soldier raiding a militant's hideout and saw a 14 year old boy with a gun, I'd just assume he was the pizza delivery boy, tip him and send him on his way...... :rolleyes:

JetPotato · 04-28-2011, 11:47 AM

[QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;4011633]If I were a US Soldier raiding a militant's hideout and saw a 14 year old boy with a gun, I'd just assume he was the pizza delivery boy, tip him and send him on his way...... :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

From what I've read around here, you better not undertip the pizza boy...especially if he has a gun.

PlumberKhan · 04-28-2011, 01:29 PM

[IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pU02IumqFXM/TCdmrbvYFLI/AAAAAAAAAw4/BVq5BD5ND9k/s1600/scared.jpg[/IMG]

I'ma so scared of the scary terrists. Scared. Pissing myself.

Jetworks · 04-28-2011, 01:42 PM

[QUOTE=cr726;4011579]A child who was a victim of a crime and was taken from his country and placed in a prison for a year is "due process"?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=palmetto defender;4011593]Due process in combat?? This kid is lucky to be alive. Why was he carrying a rifle? You have a rifle and U.S. infantry comes along you should get shot. That applies to boys AND women/girls carrying a weapon.
A 10 year old can pull the trigger on an AK47 just as well as a man.
Sorry. The U.S. soldier comes first.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I thought that part of it was painfully obvious, PD. That's why I asked about the reasoning CR was getting at. I guess she isn't familiar with the age-old tradition of some of our enemies who utilize kids to blow up our soldiers. Or the fact that the enemy we are fighting doesn't wear a uniform. Or observe the basic tenets of the Geneva Convention. Or that the TEENAGER (child, please) was standing there with a GUN.

Fallacious argument is fallacious.

Jetdawgg · 04-28-2011, 02:23 PM

Close GTMO. It is sorry @ss chapters like this that make things more dangerous for Americans in the War Theaters when they are captured

Warfish · 04-28-2011, 02:33 PM

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4011974]Close GTMO. It is sorry @ss chapters like this that make things more dangerous for Americans in the War Theaters when they are captured[/QUOTE]

GTMO or no GTMO, our enemies would kill, torture, rape and behead our soldiers when and where they can, and probably videotape it to boot.

GTMO has never been a cause for poor treatement of our troops, only an excuse offered up trying to forgive such acts.

Jetdawgg · 04-28-2011, 02:41 PM

First of all. we should not be in the business of torture. That is something that is generally left up to the troops in the field of fire. We are now doing this with the approval of the Executive Branch since Bush.

Second, GTMO is in another nation. This blurs the line between American laws and International laws. Just ugly. This blurring allows for the atrocities go on basically unchallenged.

War is ugly enough. We should not be stooping to the levels of simple minded barbarians.

04-27-2011, 09:13 PM	#1
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,272	Guantanamo secret files show U.S. often held innocent Afghans We will be in Afghanistan a long time. [QUOTE]Guantanamo secret files show U.S. often held innocent Afghans Tom Lasseter \| McClatchy Newspapers last updated: April 27, 2011 12:21:04 PM WASHINGTON — Naqibullah was about 14 years old when U.S. troops detained him in December of 2002 at a suspected militant's compound in eastern Afghanistan. The weapon he held in his hands hadn't been fired, the troops concluded, and he appeared to have been left behind with a group of cooks and errand boys when a local warlord, tipped to the raid, had fled. A secret U.S. intelligence assessment written in 2003 concluded that Naqibullah had been kidnapped and forcibly conscripted by a warring tribe affiliated with the Taliban. The boy told interrogators that during his abduction he'd been held at gunpoint by 11 men and raped. Nonetheless, Naqibullah was held at Guantanamo for a full year. Afghans make up the largest group by nationality held at the Guantanamo Bay detention center, an estimated 221 men and boys in all. Yet they were frequently found to have had nothing to do with international terrorism, according to more than 750 secret intelligence assessments that were written at Guantanamo between 2002 and 2009. The assessments were obtained by WikiLeaks and passed to McClatchy. In at least 44 cases, U.S. military intelligence officials concluded that detainees had no connection to militant activity at all, a McClatchy examination of the assessments, which cover both former and current detainees, found. The number might be even higher, but couldn't be determined from the information in some assessments, which often were just one or two pages long for Afghans who were released in 2002 and 2003. Still, it's clear from the U.S. military's own assessments that beyond a core of senior Taliban and extremist commanders, the Afghans were in large part a jumble of conscripts, insurgents, criminals and, at times, innocent bystanders. Just 45 were classified as presenting a high threat level, and only 28 were judged to be of high intelligence value. At least 203 have now been released. In 2009, the Defense Department said that at least 11 released Afghans were confirmed or suspected of "re-engaging in terrorist activities."[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/04/26/112854/guantanamo-secret-files-show-us.html#storylink=omni_popular[/url]

04-28-2011, 09:28 AM	#2
AlbanyJet All League Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,623	I thought "Change We Can Believe In" was supposed to have closed Guantanamo by now, right? Soon we'll have POWs from Libya there, too! I cannot recall a US President who campaigned on so many issues, only to do the exact opposite when he got into the White House. Do Obama-2008 voters feel like complete tools, yet? "Yes, You Do" :O :jets17

04-28-2011, 09:44 AM	#3
shakin318 Beslubbering beef-witted lout Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Funkytown Posts: 7,169	[QUOTE=cr726;4011062]We will be in Afghanistan a long time. [url]http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/04/26/112854/guantanamo-secret-files-show-us.html#storylink=omni_popular[/url][/QUOTE] Ask the kid if he would prefer to chill with his 3 hots and a cot in Guantanamo, or continue hanging with the 11 repeatedly-buttrape-him-at-gunpoint warlords.

04-28-2011, 10:08 AM	#4
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,272	[QUOTE=shakin318;4011470]Ask the kid if he would prefer to chill with his 3 hots and a cot in Guantanamo, or continue hanging with the 11 repeatedly-buttrape-him-at-gunpoint warlords.[/QUOTE] Great point. :rolleyes:

04-28-2011, 10:26 AM	#5
OCCH glad I have more purpose in life than Jets football . . . Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,411	[QUOTE=cr726;4011062]We will be in Afghanistan a long time. [url]http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/04/26/112854/guantanamo-secret-files-show-us.html#storylink=omni_popular[/url][/QUOTE] Last I checked, innocent Americans are also being imprisoned here in the states. The facts seem to prove guilt, but it is later determined those facts were wrong/misleading. It doesn't change the fact that sometimes people are imprisoned for the APPEARANCE of wrongdoing. Do I want out of Afghanistan? Of course. But as long as we're there, I have no problem with the imprisonment of someone holding a gun during a raid, then being released when it is determined he is innocent (of course, if he is like the many who go back and commit more terrorism, then we got played anyway . . .)

04-28-2011, 10:26 AM	#6
Jetworks murse in training Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Staten Island Posts: 7,442	I don't see what the problem is here. He was detained with good reason. His "due process" took a helluva a long time, but it was eventually resolved. Are you saying that because of this he and others like him will now turn to becoming the insurgency/terrorists?

04-28-2011, 10:26 AM	#7
FF2® Believes Sloppy Guy was involved JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 46,093	I'm sure they must have something bad at sometime in their lives. They're Muslam's right?

04-28-2011, 10:36 AM	#8
JetPotato fermenting Hall Of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 12,117	Why hasn't Bob Dylan written a song about this yet? Maybe he can just update the Hurrican Carter one like Elton did with Candle in the Wind for that Princess chick.

04-28-2011, 10:37 AM	#9
DeanPatsFan Lib Free Or Die..... All Pro Annoying Chowd Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,120	[QUOTE=FF2®;4011551]I'm sure they must have something bad at sometime in their lives. They're Muslam's right?[/QUOTE] Of course not silly.... Christians, Jews and Hindus have been indiscriminately slaughtering people the past three decades.... You been living under a rock?

04-28-2011, 10:37 AM	#10
Winstonbiggs Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 12,908	The sooner we put these wars and this ugly chapter of our history behind us the better.

04-28-2011, 10:38 AM	#11
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	Don't care. This is War. Not Girls Softball. Collateral Damage happens, they should be glad it's US imprisoning them wrongly, as a U.S. Prison is a few thousand times better than most, and certainly better than being "forcibly conscripted....held at gunpoint by 11 men and raped". The system worked, they found him "innocent", and he was released, right? Not hung, or shot in the back of the head and buried in a mass grave, right? Guess we're still the good guys, cause in a wide variety of Middle Eastern Nations, innocent or not, thats what would have happened to him. War isn't for the squeamish. One reason the U.S. is so bad at nowadays, is we are dedicated to fighting Politically Correct Nerf-War, instead of doing what it takes to win. With that said, I will repeat my position on all three Wars: End them. They're not serving our interests, and cost vastly too much for what they are accomplishing.

04-28-2011, 10:43 AM	#12
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,272	[QUOTE=Jetworks;4011550]I don't see what the problem is here. He was detained with good reason. His "due process" took a helluva a long time, but it was eventually resolved. Are you saying that because of this he and others like him will now turn to becoming the insurgency/terrorists?[/QUOTE] A child who was a victim of a crime and was taken from his country and placed in a prison for a year is "due process"?

04-28-2011, 10:52 AM	#13
palmetto defender All League Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 4,630	[QUOTE=cr726;4011579]A child who was a victim of a crime and was taken from his country and placed in a prison for a year is "due process"?[/QUOTE] Due process in combat?? This kid is lucky to be alive. Why was he carrying a rifle? You have a rifle and U.S. infantry comes along you should get shot. That applies to boys AND women/girls carrying a weapon. A 10 year old can pull the trigger on an AK47 just as well as a man. Sorry. The U.S. soldier comes first.

04-28-2011, 11:20 AM	#14
DeanPatsFan Lib Free Or Die..... All Pro Annoying Chowd Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,120	If I were a US Soldier raiding a militant's hideout and saw a 14 year old boy with a gun, I'd just assume he was the pizza delivery boy, tip him and send him on his way...... :rolleyes:

04-28-2011, 11:47 AM	#15
JetPotato fermenting Hall Of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 12,117	[QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;4011633]If I were a US Soldier raiding a militant's hideout and saw a 14 year old boy with a gun, I'd just assume he was the pizza delivery boy, tip him and send him on his way...... :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] From what I've read around here, you better not undertip the pizza boy...especially if he has a gun.

04-28-2011, 01:29 PM	#16
PlumberKhan BRACE YOURSELVES FOR 12... Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,013	[IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pU02IumqFXM/TCdmrbvYFLI/AAAAAAAAAw4/BVq5BD5ND9k/s1600/scared.jpg[/IMG] I'ma so scared of the scary terrists. Scared. Pissing myself.

04-28-2011, 01:42 PM	#17
Jetworks murse in training Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Staten Island Posts: 7,442	[QUOTE=cr726;4011579]A child who was a victim of a crime and was taken from his country and placed in a prison for a year is "due process"?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=palmetto defender;4011593]Due process in combat?? This kid is lucky to be alive. Why was he carrying a rifle? You have a rifle and U.S. infantry comes along you should get shot. That applies to boys AND women/girls carrying a weapon. A 10 year old can pull the trigger on an AK47 just as well as a man. Sorry. The U.S. soldier comes first.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I thought that part of it was painfully obvious, PD. That's why I asked about the reasoning CR was getting at. I guess she isn't familiar with the age-old tradition of some of our enemies who utilize kids to blow up our soldiers. Or the fact that the enemy we are fighting doesn't wear a uniform. Or observe the basic tenets of the Geneva Convention. Or that the TEENAGER (child, please) was standing there with a GUN. Fallacious argument is fallacious.

04-28-2011, 02:23 PM	#18
Jetdawgg All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 6,687	Close GTMO. It is sorry @ss chapters like this that make things more dangerous for Americans in the War Theaters when they are captured

04-28-2011, 02:33 PM	#19
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4011974]Close GTMO. It is sorry @ss chapters like this that make things more dangerous for Americans in the War Theaters when they are captured[/QUOTE] GTMO or no GTMO, our enemies would kill, torture, rape and behead our soldiers when and where they can, and probably videotape it to boot. GTMO has never been a cause for poor treatement of our troops, only an excuse offered up trying to forgive such acts.

04-28-2011, 02:41 PM	#20
Jetdawgg All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 6,687	First of all. we should not be in the business of torture. That is something that is generally left up to the troops in the field of fire. We are now doing this with the approval of the Executive Branch since Bush. Second, GTMO is in another nation. This blurs the line between American laws and International laws. Just ugly. This blurring allows for the atrocities go on basically unchallenged. War is ugly enough. We should not be stooping to the levels of simple minded barbarians.