Another creative example of public employee pay abuses at taxpayer expense. - Jets Insider.com Forums

Jetdawgg · 07-11-2011, 07:45 PM

[QUOTE]It pays well to wash your motorcycle if you are a cop in Newport Beach, where officers who patrol on motor bikes are paid an additional six hours of overtime every month simply for giving their cycles a wash. The special compensation equates to, on average, about a 5 percent pay hike for motorcycle officers, or about $5,600 a year in additional monies, according to an analysis of city documents and interviews with key city staff.

As alarming as that may seem, this is only one example of special pay that inflates salaries and is often hidden from public view because of the stealth nature of negotiations.

The sweet deal is part of the contract negotiated between the police union and the city – yet another creative example of public employee pay abuses at taxpayer expense.

Here's how the payout is described in a 2010-2011 memorandum of understanding between the city of Newport Beach and the Newport Beach Police Association: "Assigned Motor Officers are responsible for keeping the motorcycle assigned to him/her cleaned and polished at all times. This work shall be performed outside of the regularly scheduled work hours; and compensated at the rate of six (6) additional hours overtime per month (six (6) hours at time and one half equals 9 hours compensation)."

[B]One might assume that keeping equipment clean should be part of basic job functions, but in the world of public employees, where seemingly everything is negotiable, that is not the case.[/B]

Getting to the bottom of exactly the amount of money each motor officer is paid for washing his/her bike was problematic because the city only provided a broad look at motor officer salary information instead of specifics in salary, overtime and special pay for each of the eight motor officers and the one motor sergeant. Newport Beach ought to have this information at its fingertips and accessible online.

Nevertheless, if you take the average annual pay of a police officer in the traffic division at $109,139, then divide it by 2,080 work hours in a year, the hourly rate is $52. So overtime (related to cleaning motorcycles) would be $468 a month or $5,616 a year. That's the equivalent of a 5.1 percent pay raise. There are a number of categories of special pay including: being bilingual, having a master's degree, a commercial drivers license, fire mechanic certification, etc. (These special pays begin to add up.)[/QUOTE]

[url]http://articles.ocregister.com/2011-07-08/news/29756643_1_motorcycle-police-officer-motor-officers[/url]

southparkcpa · 07-11-2011, 08:36 PM

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4060302][url]http://articles.ocregister.com/2011-07-08/news/29756643_1_motorcycle-police-officer-motor-officers[/url][/QUOTE]

Shocking......I am totally taken back;)

I thought it was all for the children and to help people.

PlumberKhan · 07-11-2011, 09:11 PM

Cops are evil.

Jetdawgg · 07-11-2011, 09:29 PM

Unions can be

Warfish · 07-11-2011, 11:18 PM

[QUOTE]the average annual pay of a police officer in the traffic division at $109,139[/QUOTE]

Forgive me, but your source will need to cite their source before I trust this claimed number is accurate.

Also, to be truly accurate, one would also need to remove from the average commanders/management and the like.

As is, I have doubts to the veracity of the $109K average Traffic Div. Officer.

Jetdawgg · 07-12-2011, 07:35 AM

[QUOTE=Warfish;4060382]Forgive me, but your source will need to cite their source before I trust this claimed number is accurate.

Also, to be truly accurate, one would also need to remove from the average commanders/management and the like.

As is, I have doubts to the veracity of the $109K average Traffic Div. Officer.[/QUOTE]

Even if the source is incorrect about the data, it does not change the fact that there are items negotiated into union contracts that cost the tax payer monies for things that should just come with the job of the public employee.

The title of the thread is about public employee abuses at tax payer expense.
The salaries are a minor issue in this thread

cr726 · 07-12-2011, 08:30 AM

6 hours of OT per month to keep their city owned motorcycle clean? Wow that is horrible, I guess you want to do that when they should be patrolling or responding to 911 calls instead?

You couldn't find any video of the police officers not working the full 6 hours cleaning their motorcycles?

Warfish · 07-12-2011, 08:42 AM

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4060434]Even if the source is incorrect about the data, it does not change the fact that there are items negotiated into union contracts that cost the tax payer monies for things that should just come with the job of the public employee.

The title of the thread is about public employee abuses at tax payer expense.
The salaries are a minor issue in this thread[/QUOTE]

1. Nothing "should just come with" in a contract relationship. All terms, rights and responsabillities must be clearly laid out in the contract. Failure to write a good contract is the failure of the buyer, not the seller of the service (the Union).

2. Unions negotiate for their members. Thast what they exist for. Failure to get good terms for the City/Taxpayers (us) is a failure of City/Political Leadership, not the Union. They are doing what they exist to do.

3. And finally, with respect, if the author of your piece cannot provide accurate numbers, that reflects of the integrioty of the other material within his/her piece. You may see getting salary figures wrong as a "minor issue", I do not.

southparkcpa · 07-12-2011, 10:04 AM

[QUOTE=Warfish;4060382]Forgive me, but your source will need to cite their source before I trust this claimed number is accurate.

Also, to be truly accurate, one would also need to remove from the average commanders/management and the like.

As is, I have doubts to the veracity of the $109K average Traffic Div. Officer.[/QUOTE]

War...on Long Island this number would be LOW!

Warfish · 07-12-2011, 10:15 AM

[QUOTE=southparkcpa;4060507]War...on Long Island this number would be LOW![/QUOTE]

As I asked of the OP, please cite your source.

Average Salary of Traffic Division Officer (not Supervisor, Manager or Commander, but standard-issue-officer).

If you have a source, I will happily stand corrected, as I would find an average salary of $109K plus benefits for a traffic cop to be too high personally, but I'd like to see the source on this claim.

PlumberKhan · 07-12-2011, 10:15 AM

[QUOTE=Warfish;4060382]As is, I have doubts to the veracity of the $109K average Traffic Div. Officer.[/QUOTE]

And you'd be right:

Islip: [url]http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/police-officer-Salary-Details-11751.aspx[/url]

Hempstead: [url]http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/police-officer-Salary-Details-11549.aspx[/url]

southparkcpa · 07-12-2011, 10:39 AM

[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4060514]And you'd be right:

Islip: [url]http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/police-officer-Salary-Details-11751.aspx[/url]

Hempstead: [url]http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/police-officer-Salary-Details-11549.aspx[/url][/QUOTE]

[B]SALARY -FROM the SCPD website....[/B]

PK, I believe you are listing the "Town" enforcement people. They are not true police, do not carry a firearm etc...

[url]http://www.co.suffolk.ny.us/police/recruitment.htm[/url]

Starting salary $42,000* annually. After five (5) years of service, the base salary is $108,608*
*Under 2010 labor agreement

From Nassau County website ...without OT.

$ 89,468 Annual salary after 6 years
Plus 12% Shift Differential
$695 Education Stipend for Officers with 124 college credits

quantum · 07-12-2011, 11:08 AM

Teachers in the NYC school system that are union reps are paid to do union work on "company time" in addition to their regular, reduced classwork.

Awesome. :rolleyes:

Jetworks · 07-12-2011, 07:25 PM

[QUOTE=cr726;4060451]6 hours of OT per month to keep their [B]city owned[/B] motorcycle clean? Wow that is horrible, I guess you want to do that when they should be patrolling or responding to 911 calls instead?

You couldn't find any video of the police officers not working the full 6 hours cleaning their motorcycles?[/QUOTE]

At first I was kind of leaning towards the OP with respect towards taking care of your own stuff as it sounds the officers are part of a preferred detail ala K-9, but then you said the magic words; city-owned. Presumably, this kind of task would be handled by a civilian in fleet management, so this may actually be saving the city money in the long run.

PlumberKhan · 07-12-2011, 10:26 PM

[QUOTE=southparkcpa;4060535][B]SALARY -FROM the SCPD website....[/B]

PK, I believe you are listing the "Town" enforcement people. They are not true police, do not carry a firearm etc...

[url]http://www.co.suffolk.ny.us/police/recruitment.htm[/url]

Starting salary $42,000* annually. After five (5) years of service, the base salary is $108,608*
*Under 2010 labor agreement

From Nassau County website ...without OT.

$ 89,468 Annual salary after 6 years
Plus 12% Shift Differential
$695 Education Stipend for Officers with 124 college credits[/QUOTE]

It's a recruitment website, bro. It's inflated.

[B][SIZE="7"]MAKE $5,000 DOLLARS FROM HOME A WEEK!!!
BE YOUR OWN BOSS!!
SELL AMWAY!!
SET YOUR OWN HOURS!!
$5,000 A WEEK!!!!!!![/SIZE][/B]

[url]

piney · 07-13-2011, 08:59 AM

[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4060877]It's a recruitment website, bro. It's inflated.

[B][SIZE="7"]MAKE $5,000 DOLLARS FROM HOME A WEEK!!!
BE YOUR OWN BOSS!!
SELL AMWAY!!
SET YOUR OWN HOURS!!
$5,000 A WEEK!!!!!!![/SIZE][/B]

[url]

piney · 07-13-2011, 09:01 AM

[QUOTE=Warfish;4060461]1. Nothing "should just come with" in a contract relationship. All terms, rights and responsabillities must be clearly laid out in the contract. Failure to write a good contract is the failure of the buyer, not the seller of the service (the Union).

2. Unions negotiate for their members. Thast what they exist for. Failure to get good terms for the City/Taxpayers (us) is a failure of City/Political Leadership, not the Union. They are doing what they exist to do.

3. And finally, with respect, if the author of your piece cannot provide accurate numbers, that reflects of the integrioty of the other material within his/her piece. You may see getting salary figures wrong as a "minor issue", I do not.[/QUOTE]

the only caveat to this is when the process is corrupt, if you have negotiation between two entities where the best interest of the politician is not in getting the best deal for the taxpayer but the best deal to receive continued support from the union you have a problem.

or in Warfish terms:

TLDR: when the seller and the buyer are secretly sleeping together it can compromise the integrity of the deal.

southparkcpa · 07-13-2011, 09:18 AM

[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4060877]It's a recruitment website, bro. It's inflated.

[B][SIZE="7"]MAKE $5,000 DOLLARS FROM HOME A WEEK!!!
BE YOUR OWN BOSS!!
SELL AMWAY!!
SET YOUR OWN HOURS!!
$5,000 A WEEK!!!!!!![/SIZE][/B]

[url]

piney · 07-13-2011, 09:22 AM

[QUOTE=southparkcpa;4060993]PK, I audited many villages in Nassau and Suffolk county. There W2's almost entirely exceed 100K and this was in the 90's.

Once a PO, in Nassau or Suffolk reach 3 years of service, their w2's are almost ALWAYS over 100K, usually 130K after 5 years. This I saw with my own eyes when auditing the payroll and reading the contract and doing tax returns for a few of them.[/QUOTE]

I don't know, I have several cops in my extended family, suffolk, nassau, city, and none of them 3 years in make anything like that.

Warfish · 07-13-2011, 09:31 AM

[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4060877][url]

07-11-2011, 07:45 PM	#1
Jetdawgg All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 6,714	Another creative example of public employee pay abuses at taxpayer expense. [QUOTE]It pays well to wash your motorcycle if you are a cop in Newport Beach, where officers who patrol on motor bikes are paid an additional six hours of overtime every month simply for giving their cycles a wash. The special compensation equates to, on average, about a 5 percent pay hike for motorcycle officers, or about $5,600 a year in additional monies, according to an analysis of city documents and interviews with key city staff. As alarming as that may seem, this is only one example of special pay that inflates salaries and is often hidden from public view because of the stealth nature of negotiations. The sweet deal is part of the contract negotiated between the police union and the city – yet another creative example of public employee pay abuses at taxpayer expense. Here's how the payout is described in a 2010-2011 memorandum of understanding between the city of Newport Beach and the Newport Beach Police Association: "Assigned Motor Officers are responsible for keeping the motorcycle assigned to him/her cleaned and polished at all times. This work shall be performed outside of the regularly scheduled work hours; and compensated at the rate of six (6) additional hours overtime per month (six (6) hours at time and one half equals 9 hours compensation)." [B]One might assume that keeping equipment clean should be part of basic job functions, but in the world of public employees, where seemingly everything is negotiable, that is not the case.[/B] Getting to the bottom of exactly the amount of money each motor officer is paid for washing his/her bike was problematic because the city only provided a broad look at motor officer salary information instead of specifics in salary, overtime and special pay for each of the eight motor officers and the one motor sergeant. Newport Beach ought to have this information at its fingertips and accessible online. Nevertheless, if you take the average annual pay of a police officer in the traffic division at $109,139, then divide it by 2,080 work hours in a year, the hourly rate is $52. So overtime (related to cleaning motorcycles) would be $468 a month or $5,616 a year. That's the equivalent of a 5.1 percent pay raise. There are a number of categories of special pay including: being bilingual, having a master's degree, a commercial drivers license, fire mechanic certification, etc. (These special pays begin to add up.)[/QUOTE] [url]http://articles.ocregister.com/2011-07-08/news/29756643_1_motorcycle-police-officer-motor-officers[/url]

07-11-2011, 08:36 PM	#2
southparkcpa I see the 88 to 97 period all over again. Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NC Posts: 15,918	[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4060302][url]http://articles.ocregister.com/2011-07-08/news/29756643_1_motorcycle-police-officer-motor-officers[/url][/QUOTE] Shocking......I am totally taken back;) I thought it was all for the children and to help people.

07-11-2011, 09:11 PM	#3
PlumberKhan HAIL SATAN! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,080	Cops are evil.

07-11-2011, 09:29 PM	#4
Jetdawgg All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 6,714	Unions can be

07-11-2011, 11:18 PM	#5
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE]the average annual pay of a police officer in the traffic division at $109,139[/QUOTE] Forgive me, but your source will need to cite their source before I trust this claimed number is accurate. Also, to be truly accurate, one would also need to remove from the average commanders/management and the like. As is, I have doubts to the veracity of the $109K average Traffic Div. Officer.

07-12-2011, 07:35 AM	#6
Jetdawgg All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 6,714	[QUOTE=Warfish;4060382]Forgive me, but your source will need to cite their source before I trust this claimed number is accurate. Also, to be truly accurate, one would also need to remove from the average commanders/management and the like. As is, I have doubts to the veracity of the $109K average Traffic Div. Officer.[/QUOTE] Even if the source is incorrect about the data, it does not change the fact that there are items negotiated into union contracts that cost the tax payer monies for things that should just come with the job of the public employee. The title of the thread is about public employee abuses at tax payer expense. The salaries are a minor issue in this thread

07-12-2011, 08:30 AM	#7
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,528	6 hours of OT per month to keep their city owned motorcycle clean? Wow that is horrible, I guess you want to do that when they should be patrolling or responding to 911 calls instead? You couldn't find any video of the police officers not working the full 6 hours cleaning their motorcycles?

07-12-2011, 08:42 AM	#8
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4060434]Even if the source is incorrect about the data, it does not change the fact that there are items negotiated into union contracts that cost the tax payer monies for things that should just come with the job of the public employee. The title of the thread is about public employee abuses at tax payer expense. The salaries are a minor issue in this thread[/QUOTE] 1. Nothing "should just come with" in a contract relationship. All terms, rights and responsabillities must be clearly laid out in the contract. Failure to write a good contract is the failure of the buyer, not the seller of the service (the Union). 2. Unions negotiate for their members. Thast what they exist for. Failure to get good terms for the City/Taxpayers (us) is a failure of City/Political Leadership, not the Union. They are doing what they exist to do. 3. And finally, with respect, if the author of your piece cannot provide accurate numbers, that reflects of the integrioty of the other material within his/her piece. You may see getting salary figures wrong as a "minor issue", I do not.

07-12-2011, 10:04 AM	#9
southparkcpa I see the 88 to 97 period all over again. Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NC Posts: 15,918	[QUOTE=Warfish;4060382]Forgive me, but your source will need to cite their source before I trust this claimed number is accurate. Also, to be truly accurate, one would also need to remove from the average commanders/management and the like. As is, I have doubts to the veracity of the $109K average Traffic Div. Officer.[/QUOTE] War...on Long Island this number would be LOW!

07-12-2011, 10:15 AM	#10
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=southparkcpa;4060507]War...on Long Island this number would be LOW![/QUOTE] As I asked of the OP, please cite your source. Average Salary of Traffic Division Officer (not Supervisor, Manager or Commander, but standard-issue-officer). If you have a source, I will happily stand corrected, as I would find an average salary of $109K plus benefits for a traffic cop to be too high personally, but I'd like to see the source on this claim.

07-12-2011, 10:39 AM	#12
southparkcpa I see the 88 to 97 period all over again. Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NC Posts: 15,918	[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4060514]And you'd be right: Islip: [url]http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/police-officer-Salary-Details-11751.aspx[/url] Hempstead: [url]http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/police-officer-Salary-Details-11549.aspx[/url][/QUOTE] [B]SALARY -FROM the SCPD website....[/B] PK, I believe you are listing the "Town" enforcement people. They are not true police, do not carry a firearm etc... [url]http://www.co.suffolk.ny.us/police/recruitment.htm[/url] Starting salary $42,000* annually. After five (5) years of service, the base salary is $108,608* *Under 2010 labor agreement From Nassau County website ...without OT. $ 89,468 Annual salary after 6 years Plus 12% Shift Differential $695 Education Stipend for Officers with 124 college credits

07-12-2011, 11:08 AM	#13
quantum GFY Snatchez! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LI Posts: 18,031	Teachers in the NYC school system that are union reps are paid to do union work on "company time" in addition to their regular, reduced classwork. Awesome. :rolleyes:

07-12-2011, 07:25 PM	#14
Jetworks murse in training Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Staten Island Posts: 7,545	[QUOTE=cr726;4060451]6 hours of OT per month to keep their [B]city owned[/B] motorcycle clean? Wow that is horrible, I guess you want to do that when they should be patrolling or responding to 911 calls instead? You couldn't find any video of the police officers not working the full 6 hours cleaning their motorcycles?[/QUOTE] At first I was kind of leaning towards the OP with respect towards taking care of your own stuff as it sounds the officers are part of a preferred detail ala K-9, but then you said the magic words; city-owned. Presumably, this kind of task would be handled by a civilian in fleet management, so this may actually be saving the city money in the long run.

07-12-2011, 10:26 PM	#15
PlumberKhan HAIL SATAN! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,080	[QUOTE=southparkcpa;4060535][B]SALARY -FROM the SCPD website....[/B] PK, I believe you are listing the "Town" enforcement people. They are not true police, do not carry a firearm etc... [url]http://www.co.suffolk.ny.us/police/recruitment.htm[/url] Starting salary $42,000* annually. After five (5) years of service, the base salary is $108,608* *Under 2010 labor agreement From Nassau County website ...without OT. $ 89,468 Annual salary after 6 years Plus 12% Shift Differential $695 Education Stipend for Officers with 124 college credits[/QUOTE] It's a recruitment website, bro. It's inflated. [B][SIZE="7"]MAKE $5,000 DOLLARS FROM HOME A WEEK!!! BE YOUR OWN BOSS!! SELL AMWAY!! SET YOUR OWN HOURS!! $5,000 A WEEK!!!!!!![/SIZE][/B] [url]

07-13-2011, 08:59 AM	#16
piney hip deep in dirty diapers All League Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,618	[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4060877]It's a recruitment website, bro. It's inflated. [B][SIZE="7"]MAKE $5,000 DOLLARS FROM HOME A WEEK!!! BE YOUR OWN BOSS!! SELL AMWAY!! SET YOUR OWN HOURS!! $5,000 A WEEK!!!!!!![/SIZE][/B] [url]

07-13-2011, 09:01 AM	#17
piney hip deep in dirty diapers All League Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,618	[QUOTE=Warfish;4060461]1. Nothing "should just come with" in a contract relationship. All terms, rights and responsabillities must be clearly laid out in the contract. Failure to write a good contract is the failure of the buyer, not the seller of the service (the Union). 2. Unions negotiate for their members. Thast what they exist for. Failure to get good terms for the City/Taxpayers (us) is a failure of City/Political Leadership, not the Union. They are doing what they exist to do. 3. And finally, with respect, if the author of your piece cannot provide accurate numbers, that reflects of the integrioty of the other material within his/her piece. You may see getting salary figures wrong as a "minor issue", I do not.[/QUOTE] the only caveat to this is when the process is corrupt, if you have negotiation between two entities where the best interest of the politician is not in getting the best deal for the taxpayer but the best deal to receive continued support from the union you have a problem. or in Warfish terms: TLDR: when the seller and the buyer are secretly sleeping together it can compromise the integrity of the deal.

07-13-2011, 09:18 AM	#18
southparkcpa I see the 88 to 97 period all over again. Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NC Posts: 15,918	[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4060877]It's a recruitment website, bro. It's inflated. [B][SIZE="7"]MAKE $5,000 DOLLARS FROM HOME A WEEK!!! BE YOUR OWN BOSS!! SELL AMWAY!! SET YOUR OWN HOURS!! $5,000 A WEEK!!!!!!![/SIZE][/B] [url]

07-13-2011, 09:22 AM	#19
piney hip deep in dirty diapers All League Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,618	[QUOTE=southparkcpa;4060993]PK, I audited many villages in Nassau and Suffolk county. There W2's almost entirely exceed 100K and this was in the 90's. Once a PO, in Nassau or Suffolk reach 3 years of service, their w2's are almost ALWAYS over 100K, usually 130K after 5 years. This I saw with my own eyes when auditing the payroll and reading the contract and doing tax returns for a few of them.[/QUOTE] I don't know, I have several cops in my extended family, suffolk, nassau, city, and none of them 3 years in make anything like that.

07-13-2011, 09:31 AM	#20
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4060877][url]