WoW Sound familiar?????? - Page 3 - Jets Insider.com Forums

Charlie Brown · 12-31-2011, 10:35 AM

[QUOTE=C Mart;4299807]I bet you that applies to fans of 25+ NFL teams OC's...Check the Chicago papers. Lovie Smith is going through the same thing as Rex over OC Mike Martz.

Especially with Madden everyone thinks they can be an OC and call plays..Of course it's always AFTER a play occurs...Team runs for 2 yards--The OC should have passed...Team passes incomplete--The OC should have run.[/QUOTE]

Sorry IMO this response attempts to sound intelligent by being dismissive of fans in general but is in essence preposterous on its face...

Look are you saying that an OC should never be removed or replaced? Or that all OCs are of equal value and capability?

Of course not!!!

That would be by definitition unsupportable and indefeassiable.

The fact is just because fans at times react emotionally to their teams woes doesn't dismiss or minimize the fact that their observations are based upon objective phenomena that can be independently identified by statistics and third party verfication.

In the case of SD Charges fans statements they were shown to be right by the eventual dismissal of Schotty!! So their oipinions appraered to be right on time and on point.

The fact is that when as here he have two independent fan bases coming to the same or similar conclusions about a coach, i.e Schotty, you can't get away with "oh the fans will be fans canard".

Your assertions would have far more creditability if Schotty had been fielding a top 10 offense and the fans were calling him incompetent as is happening with the current Giants.

No, Schotty has shown that he has a good football mind, knows the game of football, will probably based on his demeanor and knowledge of the game make an outstanding NFL HC.

Nevertheless despite all of the above Schotty has shown himself to be a below average OC and his 69 calls for passing in this last game just highlight his amazing inability to make in game evaluations and sound game adjustments......

Monsterxman · 12-31-2011, 10:50 AM

[QUOTE=Charlie Brown;4299789]I find it very telling that you IGNORE what the SD fans were saying about Schotty in the thread and the fact that Schotty was essentially incompetent and then you say in effect well Sanchez wont improve "maybe" and that the Jets shouldn't build their offense around his strenths?

[B][SIZE="3"]I answer What are you talking about????[/SIZE][/B]:eek:

The answer is simple the Jets drafted him 5th in the NFL draft.

If your thinking was the Jets thinking when they drafted him, why draft him?

Do you understand?

Sanchez wasn't an undrafted walk on trying just to make the team. If the Jets weren't going to work towards Sanchez's strengths why draft him?????

If you werent going to [B][SIZE="3"]"build"[/SIZE][/B] around Sanchez then why draft Sanchez that high in the first place!!!:eek:

The Jets weren't forced to draft Sanchez they moved up to get him.....

Maddening!! :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

It's not for lack of trying.
Even if Sanchez learns how to read a defense, which in itself is difficult for a college qb with so little starting experience, his accuracy is a huge issue and very well be Mark's downfall.

Sadly, he Reminds me more of Joey Harrington vs Bree's.
Their 3rd year stats, and on field performance are eeirly similar.

DDNYjets · 12-31-2011, 11:01 AM

[QUOTE=Charlie Brown;4299789]I find it very telling that you IGNORE what the SD fans were saying about Schotty in the thread and the fact that Schotty was essentially incompetent and then you say in effect well Sanchez wont improve "maybe" and that the Jets shouldn't build their offense around his strenths?

[B][SIZE="3"]I answer What are you talking about????[/SIZE][/B]:eek:

The answer is simple the Jets drafted him 5th in the NFL draft.

If your thinking was the Jets thinking when they drafted him, why draft him?

Do you understand?

Sanchez wasn't an undrafted walk on trying just to make the team. If the Jets weren't going to work towards Sanchez's strengths why draft him?????

If you werent going to [B][SIZE="3"]"build"[/SIZE][/B] around Sanchez then why draft Sanchez that high in the first place!!!:eek:

The Jets weren't forced to draft Sanchez they moved up to get him.....

Maddening!! :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Allow me to simplify.

"Build Around" and "Build an entire Scheme and entire team" are two different things.

Build Around - Add a few nice WRs, RB, call some plays to suit his skillset and avoid plays that show warts. Basically what every team does for every QB. This is what the Jets thought they would have to do and actually did for Sanchez.

Build Entire Team and Scheme - What Broncos are trying to do with Tebow. Have to literally build the entire team around one player. Have to stop what everyone is doing to suit one player. If that one player goes bust then the team goes bust. It is a custom built team for one player.

Now NO did not go that extreme for Brees but to say Sanchez and Brees have a lot in common b.c Schotty held back Brees and if the Jets get rid of Schotty Sanchez will blossom is wishful thinking. Payton is better than Schotty, but Brees got better. Brees got more accurate. Not sure how he did it but he did. That to me is the biggest miracle about Brees. Also Brees plays in a dome in an arena-league offense. The Jets will never be able to play that style no matter what personnel they have.

There are parallels in the early career of Sanchez and Brees but I think that is the only time in their careers that there will be any parallels.

Will getting rid of Schotty be addition by subtraction for Sanchez? Yes, absolutely. Will Sanchez minus Schotty plus a new OC add up to Brees? Highly unlikely. I dont even think it will be close.

Sanchez will need to role out of bed one morning and be able to complete 70% of his passes to be like Brees. Somehow that happened to Brees. Maybe he sold his soul to the devil. To assume it will happen to Sanchez after Schotty just b.c it happened to Brees after Schotty is a pipe dream.

C Mart · 12-31-2011, 11:04 AM

[QUOTE=Charlie Brown;4299816]Sorry IMO this response attempts to sound intelligent by being dismissive of fans in general but is in essence preposterous on its face...

Look are you saying that an OC should never be removed or replaced? Or that all OCs are of equal value and capability?

Of course not!!!

That would be by definitition unsupportable and indefeassiable.

The fact is just because fans at times react emotionally to their teams woes doesn't dismiss or minimize the fact that their observations are based upon objective phenomena that can be independently identified by statistics and third party verfication.

In the case of SD Charges fans statements they were shown to be right by the eventual dismissal of Schotty!! So their oipinions appraered to be right on time and on point.

The fact is that when as here he have two independent fan bases coming to the same or similar conclusions about a coach, i.e Schotty, you can't get away with "oh the fans will be fans canard".

Your assertions would have far more creditability if Schotty had been fielding a top 10 offense and the fans were calling him incompetent as is happening with the current Giants.

No, Schotty has shown that he has a good football mind, knows the game of football, will probably based on his demeanor and knowledge of the game make an outstanding NFL HC.

Nevertheless despite all of the above Schotty has shown himself to be a below average OC and his 69 calls for passing in this last game just highlight his amazing inability to make in game evaluations and sound game adjustments......[/QUOTE]

First..He wasnt dismissed. He went from SDs QB Coach to Jets OC...

What is being compared? Its different responsibilities...Cameron was the OC and calling plays in SD...Cavanaugh is the Jets QB Coach..

And as I have stated its time for a new OC voice/approach to see if Sanchez is the future QB of the Jets...But people are mixing and matching things to try and prove points which aren't accurate.

12-31-2011, 11:01 AM	#43
DDNYjets Bye week buh bye Rex Hall Of Fame Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: New York Posts: 12,307	[QUOTE=Charlie Brown;4299789]I find it very telling that you IGNORE what the SD fans were saying about Schotty in the thread and the fact that Schotty was essentially incompetent and then you say in effect well Sanchez wont improve "maybe" and that the Jets shouldn't build their offense around his strenths? [B][SIZE="3"]I answer What are you talking about????[/SIZE][/B]:eek: The answer is simple the Jets drafted him 5th in the NFL draft. If your thinking was the Jets thinking when they drafted him, why draft him? Do you understand? Sanchez wasn't an undrafted walk on trying just to make the team. If the Jets weren't going to work towards Sanchez's strengths why draft him????? If you werent going to [B][SIZE="3"]"build"[/SIZE][/B] around Sanchez then why draft Sanchez that high in the first place!!!:eek: The Jets weren't forced to draft Sanchez they moved up to get him..... Maddening!! :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] Allow me to simplify. "Build Around" and "Build an entire Scheme and entire team" are two different things. Build Around - Add a few nice WRs, RB, call some plays to suit his skillset and avoid plays that show warts. Basically what every team does for every QB. This is what the Jets thought they would have to do and actually did for Sanchez. Build Entire Team and Scheme - What Broncos are trying to do with Tebow. Have to literally build the entire team around one player. Have to stop what everyone is doing to suit one player. If that one player goes bust then the team goes bust. It is a custom built team for one player. Now NO did not go that extreme for Brees but to say Sanchez and Brees have a lot in common b.c Schotty held back Brees and if the Jets get rid of Schotty Sanchez will blossom is wishful thinking. Payton is better than Schotty, but Brees got better. Brees got more accurate. Not sure how he did it but he did. That to me is the biggest miracle about Brees. Also Brees plays in a dome in an arena-league offense. The Jets will never be able to play that style no matter what personnel they have. There are parallels in the early career of Sanchez and Brees but I think that is the only time in their careers that there will be any parallels. Will getting rid of Schotty be addition by subtraction for Sanchez? Yes, absolutely. Will Sanchez minus Schotty plus a new OC add up to Brees? Highly unlikely. I dont even think it will be close. Sanchez will need to role out of bed one morning and be able to complete 70% of his passes to be like Brees. Somehow that happened to Brees. Maybe he sold his soul to the devil. To assume it will happen to Sanchez after Schotty just b.c it happened to Brees after Schotty is a pipe dream. Last edited by DDNYjets; 12-31-2011 at 11:05 AM.

12-31-2011, 10:35 AM	#41
Charlie Brown Please Pray for the Safety of Everyone!!! Jets Insider VIP Join Date: May 1999 Location: New York City Posts: 5,529	[QUOTE=C Mart;4299807]I bet you that applies to fans of 25+ NFL teams OC's...Check the Chicago papers. Lovie Smith is going through the same thing as Rex over OC Mike Martz. Especially with Madden everyone thinks they can be an OC and call plays..Of course it's always AFTER a play occurs...Team runs for 2 yards--The OC should have passed...Team passes incomplete--The OC should have run.[/QUOTE] Sorry IMO this response attempts to sound intelligent by being dismissive of fans in general but is in essence preposterous on its face... Look are you saying that an OC should never be removed or replaced? Or that all OCs are of equal value and capability? Of course not!!! That would be by definitition unsupportable and indefeassiable. The fact is just because fans at times react emotionally to their teams woes doesn't dismiss or minimize the fact that their observations are based upon objective phenomena that can be independently identified by statistics and third party verfication. In the case of SD Charges fans statements they were shown to be right by the eventual dismissal of Schotty!! So their oipinions appraered to be right on time and on point. The fact is that when as here he have two independent fan bases coming to the same or similar conclusions about a coach, i.e Schotty, you can't get away with "oh the fans will be fans canard". Your assertions would have far more creditability if Schotty had been fielding a top 10 offense and the fans were calling him incompetent as is happening with the current Giants. No, Schotty has shown that he has a good football mind, knows the game of football, will probably based on his demeanor and knowledge of the game make an outstanding NFL HC. Nevertheless despite all of the above Schotty has shown himself to be a below average OC and his 69 calls for passing in this last game just highlight his amazing inability to make in game evaluations and sound game adjustments......

12-31-2011, 10:50 AM	#42
Monsterxman supercalifragilisticexpialidocious All League Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 4,065	[QUOTE=Charlie Brown;4299789]I find it very telling that you IGNORE what the SD fans were saying about Schotty in the thread and the fact that Schotty was essentially incompetent and then you say in effect well Sanchez wont improve "maybe" and that the Jets shouldn't build their offense around his strenths? [B][SIZE="3"]I answer What are you talking about????[/SIZE][/B]:eek: The answer is simple the Jets drafted him 5th in the NFL draft. If your thinking was the Jets thinking when they drafted him, why draft him? Do you understand? Sanchez wasn't an undrafted walk on trying just to make the team. If the Jets weren't going to work towards Sanchez's strengths why draft him????? If you werent going to [B][SIZE="3"]"build"[/SIZE][/B] around Sanchez then why draft Sanchez that high in the first place!!!:eek: The Jets weren't forced to draft Sanchez they moved up to get him..... Maddening!! :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] It's not for lack of trying. Even if Sanchez learns how to read a defense, which in itself is difficult for a college qb with so little starting experience, his accuracy is a huge issue and very well be Mark's downfall. Sadly, he Reminds me more of Joey Harrington vs Bree's. Their 3rd year stats, and on field performance are eeirly similar.

12-31-2011, 11:04 AM	#44
C Mart Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,304	[QUOTE=Charlie Brown;4299816]Sorry IMO this response attempts to sound intelligent by being dismissive of fans in general but is in essence preposterous on its face... Look are you saying that an OC should never be removed or replaced? Or that all OCs are of equal value and capability? Of course not!!! That would be by definitition unsupportable and indefeassiable. The fact is just because fans at times react emotionally to their teams woes doesn't dismiss or minimize the fact that their observations are based upon objective phenomena that can be independently identified by statistics and third party verfication. In the case of SD Charges fans statements they were shown to be right by the eventual dismissal of Schotty!! So their oipinions appraered to be right on time and on point. The fact is that when as here he have two independent fan bases coming to the same or similar conclusions about a coach, i.e Schotty, you can't get away with "oh the fans will be fans canard". Your assertions would have far more creditability if Schotty had been fielding a top 10 offense and the fans were calling him incompetent as is happening with the current Giants. No, Schotty has shown that he has a good football mind, knows the game of football, will probably based on his demeanor and knowledge of the game make an outstanding NFL HC. Nevertheless despite all of the above Schotty has shown himself to be a below average OC and his 69 calls for passing in this last game just highlight his amazing inability to make in game evaluations and sound game adjustments......[/QUOTE] First..He wasnt dismissed. He went from SDs QB Coach to Jets OC... What is being compared? Its different responsibilities...Cameron was the OC and calling plays in SD...Cavanaugh is the Jets QB Coach.. And as I have stated its time for a new OC voice/approach to see if Sanchez is the future QB of the Jets...But people are mixing and matching things to try and prove points which aren't accurate.