Melvin Ingram - DE/LB South Carolina

[King Koopa]

Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN

I hope yur right, but how does he have 6 games with 2 or fewer tackles if they are moving him all over the place?

Sonny, I haven't looked at his stats but he was playing hurt during the middle of the year (dinged up/ nagging small things), I suspect those games were probably during the middle of the season for the most part.....Regardless, he was constantly doing the little things like qb pressures and hits, deflecting passes at the line or in coverage, shooting gaps and forcing negative plays made by his teammates, etc

Not sure why you're so hesitant when it comes to Ingram.....these highlight videos are pretty awesome to me and show how rare the guy is....running fake punts, dominating from nose tackle, picking off fake field goals, going up and snatching the ball on the hands team on an onside kick, not to mention all of the great plays from olb/de, etc

I've watched him every single game and I'm telling you he's a great one who is absolutely a football player first......he just happens to be a rare athlete as well

The guys that dominate on defense are usually the guys who are freak athletes for their positions, Ingram can definitely be in this category at the next level

[SONNY WERBLIN]

Originally Posted by King Koopa

Sonny, I haven't looked at his stats but he was playing hurt during the middle of the year (dinged up/ nagging small things), I suspect those games were probably during the middle of the season for the most part.....Regardless, he was constantly doing the little things like qb pressures and hits, deflecting passes at the line or in coverage, shooting gaps and forcing negative plays made by his teammates, etc

Not sure why you're so hesitant when it comes to Ingram.....these highlight videos are pretty awesome to me and show how rare the guy is....running fake punts, dominating from nose tackle, picking off fake field goals, going up and snatching the ball on the hands team on an onside kick, not to mention all of the great plays from olb/de, etc

I've watched him every single game and I'm telling you he's a great one who is absolutely a football player first......he just happens to be a rare athlete as well

The guys that dominate on defense are usually the guys who are freak athletes for their positions, Ingram can definitely be in this category at the next level

I'm reconsidering my skiddishness as to Ingram, but I've got to say while I agree with your sentiment that "freak athletes" can become elite defensive players, the same label often seems to be associated with first round busts. Is he really 6'2" 270+lbs. He does not look that big in the clips?

[NYJETS3233]

Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN

I'm reconsidering my skiddishness as to Ingram, but I've got to say while I agree with your sentiment that "freak athletes" can become elite defensive players, the same label often seems to be associated with first round busts. Is he really 6'2" 270+lbs. He does not look that big in the clips?

I think he is definately every bit of the 270+ he is listed at. He is a thick trunk guy with a big legs and a big backside. At that size he carries his weight very well so im assuming hes probably right around 6'2'' also. cant see him being much shorter than that. What sticks out to me is the speed that he plays at. He looks like he is in fast forward compared to other linemen on the field.
Fact of the matter is: Although he may have some games where he doenst light up the stat board,(where just about everyone has games like that), he has a propensity to make the BIG PLAY, and has proven that.
Here are some pics to get a better look at his size:

[SONNY WERBLIN]

Originally Posted by NYJETS3233

I think he is definately every bit of the 270+ he is listed at. He is a thick trunk guy with a big legs and a big backside. At that size he carries his weight very well so im assuming hes probably right around 6'2'' also. cant see him being much shorter than that. What sticks out to me is the speed that he plays at. He looks like he is in fast forward compared to other linemen on the field.
Fact of the matter is: Although he may have some games where he doenst light up the stat board,(where just about everyone has games like that), he has a propensity to make the BIG PLAY, and has proven that.
Here are some pics to get a better look at his size:

I've went back and looked at more clips, while I do have some concerns about bust protential, based on how much love he is getting from guys that have seen more of him than me and the fact that Upshaw will not likley be there when the Jets pick at 16, I can get behind picking Ingram in Round 1. In my dream scenario we get a OLB like Ingram in round 1 and and ILB like Burfict in Round 2 solidifying the D front 7 for years to come.

[IRONFAN 40]

Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN

I've went back and looked at more clips, while I do have some concerns about bust protential, based on how much love he is getting from guys that have seen more of him than me and the fact that Upshaw will not likley be there when the Jets pick at 16, I can get behind picking Ingram in Round 1. In my dream scenario we get a OLB like Ingram in round 1 and and ILB like Burfict in Round 2 solidifying the D front 7 for years to come.

Would sign for that in a heart beat. If Rex want a ground and pound approach, our defense has to stout to keep low scoring games.

[CR8ZMIKE]

Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN

I've went back and looked at more clips, while I do have some concerns about bust protential, based on how much love he is getting from guys that have seen more of him than me and the fact that Upshaw will not likley be there when the Jets pick at 16, I can get behind picking Ingram in Round 1. In my dream scenario we get a OLB like Ingram in round 1 and and ILB like Burfict in Round 2 solidifying the D front 7 for years to come.

if you are right im kissing you on the mouth.

[palmetto defender]

Since I live in SC (not a USC fan) Ingram gets a lot of ink and commentary. Also seen projections on him.
I seriously doubt he is around at 16. If so, grab him. More likely Upshaw is there - borderline possible. Not a horrible choice. Still would go DE in round 2 (sorry Sonny). I am not overly impressed with the Jets up front plus they still have a force in Harris. Need an ILB? Get one later.
For DE - Clemson, LSU and Alabama have strong candidates in the second.

[Flaming Mo]

Originally Posted by palmetto defender

Since I live in SC (not a USC fan) Ingram gets a lot of ink and commentary. Also seen projections on him.
I seriously doubt he is around at 16. If so, grab him. More likely Upshaw is there - borderline possible. Not a horrible choice. Still would go DE in round 2 (sorry Sonny). I am not overly impressed with the Jets up front plus they still have a force in Harris. Need an ILB? Get one later.
For DE - Clemson, LSU and Alabama have strong candidates in the second.

The teams you mentioned wont have any DEs available in the second round. Only frontline player from Bama in the draft is Josh Chapman and he is strictly a NT. Thompson from Clemson will most likely go earlier and is not a 3-4 defensive end anyways. LSU's only DE prospect in this draft is Michael Brockers and he will easily go in the top 20. Most guys who project to 3-4 DE and who could be an upgrade over what we already have talent wise will most likely be gone in the first round (Brockers, Still, Coples, Cox). Two guys who might be worth taking a look at later could be Derek Wolfe from Cincy and Kendell Reyes from UConn. Long athletic guys who produced very well in college and have great measurables for the position.

Right now the word is Buffalo will look hard at Upshaw at #10 cause he is the number one OLB in the moment and they had great success with a DLine player from Bama last year. The combine could change a bunch of things but it's not like Ingram while a very good athlete at his size doesnt seem like a guy who will show up and run some crazy times. Hopefully that is the case because I rather take the more complete, more athletic player (Ingram) than the guy who is more heralded due to his program pedigree.

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by Flaming Mo

Only frontline player from Bama in the draft is Josh Chapman and he is strictly a NT.

a note about chapman, apparently he was playing with a torn ACL for most of the year (!) doctors were shocked he was able to do it. He's going thru surgery and probably a PUP candidate for his first year in the league.

[chillywilly]

Right now the word is Buffalo will look hard at Upshaw at #10 cause he is the number one OLB in the moment and they had great success with a DLine player from Bama last year. The combine could change a bunch of things but it's not like Ingram while a very good athlete at his size doesnt seem like a guy who will show up and run some crazy times. Hopefully that is the case because I rather take the more complete, more athletic player (Ingram) than the guy who is more heralded due to his program pedigree.[/QUOTE]



I'm hoping that is the case. We'll find out a lot about ingram's stock after the senior bowl practices and game next week.

[augustiniak]

Originally Posted by palmetto defender

Since I live in SC (not a USC fan) Ingram gets a lot of ink and commentary. Also seen projections on him.
I seriously doubt he is around at 16. If so, grab him. More likely Upshaw is there - borderline possible. Not a horrible choice. Still would go DE in round 2 (sorry Sonny). I am not overly impressed with the Jets up front plus they still have a force in Harris. Need an ILB? Get one later.
For DE - Clemson, LSU and Alabama have strong candidates in the second.

i love ingram on the jets, upshaw too. but i think both may be gone. i could also see the jets taking mercilus, who i think is getting too much flack for only 1 yr of production. he's nothing like gholston, he's athletic and has legit pass rush moves. if the jets could land one of those, i think the defense would be way more improved than if they drafted barron. but given how the jets lost to the giants, how their offense was so predictable and anemic, and how 3 of the 4 teams left in the playoffs did it with offense, i wouldn't be at all surprised if the jets took kendall wright. i could see holmes leaving either this season or next, and for all we know sanchez won't even be the qb next year. wright may actually open up the running game more than a road grader like decastro.

[palmetto defender]

Relative to DE. It's true that Brockers of LSU is not a second rounder. He's about the same level as OLBs Ingram and Upshaw. ALL three won't be gone at 16. I still don't love/like the Jets current DL.
Now if Jets grab a OLB in Rd 1, I still like Thompson of Clemson and Chapman of AL for DE. Both have the right size and speed for a 3-4 DE. Don't care where they played in college. A 3-4 DE is really a DT. Right? Played in the scheme. Believe me they are.

[SONNY WERBLIN]

Originally Posted by palmetto defender

Relative to DE. It's true that Brockers of LSU is not a second rounder. He's about the same level as OLBs Ingram and Upshaw. ALL three won't be gone at 16. I still don't love/like the Jets current DL.
Now if Jets grab a OLB in Rd 1, I still like Thompson of Clemson and Chapman of AL for DE. Both have the right size and speed for a 3-4 DE. Don't care where they played in college. A 3-4 DE is really a DT. Right? Played in the scheme. Believe me they are.

In fact on the Jets depth chart they list their starting defensive line as DE, NT, DT. However, i'd rather stick with picks at OLB, ILB, and FS in the draft since those are the areas of biggest need. I really thing Ellis is going to step up next year after a full off season with the team (he played well at the very end of the season). Ellis is big and athletic and I'd love the starting D line to be Ellis, Bo, and Mo Wilk with Dixon coming in on passing downs and Ellis moving inside to Bo's spot.

[palmetto defender]

Originally Posted by augustiniak

i love ingram on the jets, upshaw too. but i think both may be gone. i could also see the jets taking mercilus, who i think is getting too much flack for only 1 yr of production. he's nothing like gholston, he's athletic and has legit pass rush moves. if the jets could land one of those, i think the defense would be way more improved than if they drafted barron. but given how the jets lost to the giants, how their offense was so predictable and anemic, and how 3 of the 4 teams left in the playoffs did it with offense, i wouldn't be at all surprised if the jets took kendall wright. i could see holmes leaving either this season or next, and for all we know sanchez won't even be the qb next year. wright may actually open up the running game more than a road grader like decastro.

So many needs it makes it annoying. I can't disagree about the offense concept BUT that starts with the QB. I thought at the beginning of the season that Sanchez was the problem with Off. Weakest link. Actually shared that distriction with Hunter. Wright's a good receiver, but small. Here's on for you slightly lower. Nick Toon- taller, bigger and almost as fast. Maybe the genes?

[augustiniak]

Originally Posted by palmetto defender

So many needs it makes it annoying. I can't disagree about the offense concept BUT that starts with the QB. I thought at the beginning of the season that Sanchez was the problem with Off. Weakest link. Actually shared that distriction with Hunter. Wright's a good receiver, but small. Here's on for you slightly lower. Nick Toon- taller, bigger and almost as fast. Maybe the genes?

i think the worst thing the jets can do, is draft offensive players who are specifically suited to sanchez's game. if they want to take a wr, take the best wr, if they want to take a RT, ok too.

let's say, hypothetically, the jets get wright in the first, and a RT in the 2nd. let's also say that sanchez doesn't play well this year, then they draft a qb next year who's taller, and more of a pure pocket passer. then we'll all be happy they have a legit deep threat. if they then get a taller, possession wr to pair with wright, they've completely changed the offense and have a RT too. this is but one scenario where wright would fit. at this point, i think tanny has to fix the offense, and that may start with the o-line and wrs and end with drafting another qb in a year or two.

[CR8ZMIKE]

Nick Toon is not nearly as fast as Wright. but Toon could have a solid career.

I like a Posey over Toon in round 3

[section314]

What I hope for most in this draft is that we keep our picks, and not continue this nonsense of the past few years of trading so many of them. For the first time in a long time, we have all our picks, plus maybe a few supplemental for some free agent losses. If the scouts do their jobs, we should be able to add some good players to the mix. If we can come away with a starter for the front 7, offensive line, and safety, in no particular order, I will be very happy.

[Flaming Mo]

Originally Posted by palmetto defender

Relative to DE. It's true that Brockers of LSU is not a second rounder. He's about the same level as OLBs Ingram and Upshaw. ALL three won't be gone at 16. I still don't love/like the Jets current DL.
Now if Jets grab a OLB in Rd 1, I still like Thompson of Clemson and Chapman of AL for DE. Both have the right size and speed for a 3-4 DE. Don't care where they played in college. A 3-4 DE is really a DT. Right? Played in the scheme. Believe me they are.

A 3-4 DE is a defensive tackle most of the time (as we saw with Wilkerson) but they need to be longer with longs arms so they can take on the guards and tackles. Chapman is way to short (6-1) and not mobile enough to play DE in a 3-4, he is as pure a NT from his measurables as they come.

[palmetto defender]

Originally Posted by Flaming Mo

A 3-4 DE is a defensive tackle most of the time (as we saw with Wilkerson) but they need to be longer with longs arms so they can take on the guards and tackles. Chapman is way to short (6-1) and not mobile enough to play DE in a 3-4, he is as pure a NT from his measurables as they come.

Have to disagree here. On two points. 1. Chapman is too small to be a NT in the NFL. 2. Hw is quick enough. 3. He is most importantly a winner- something the Jets have in short supply.
Despite what some here think I believe the Jets DL is eh.
This team does have a lot of deficiencies, so frankly it's hard to say where they should go. I look at (in order) OLB, DE, RT, WR, TE (a real one please), WR or ILB, S, RB (if LT leaves). Wait that's 9 picks or FAs. Not to mention OL reserves (Vlad is not an option).

[NYJETS3233]

Ingram weighed in at 6' 1 7/8" (6'2'' pretty much) and 276 lbs. basically exactly what he is listed

in comparison upshaw weighed in at 6'1 4/8" 271.