Police Get Help With Confronting Veterans - Jets Insider.com Forums

Jetdawgg · 01-29-2012, 02:49 PM

[QUOTE]The Justice Department is funding an unusual national training program to help police deal with an increasing number of volatile confrontations involving combat veterans.

The Justice Department is funding an unusual national training program to help police deal with an increasing number of volatile confrontations involving highly trained and often heavily armed combat veterans.

Developers of the pilot program, to be launched at 15 U.S. sites this year, said there is an "urgent need" to de-escalate crises in which even SWAT teams may be facing tactical disadvantages against mentally ill suspects who also happen to be trained in modern warfare.

"We just can't use the blazing-guns approach anymore when dealing with disturbed individuals who are highly trained in all kinds of tactical operations, including guerrilla warfare," said Dennis Cusick, executive director of the Upper Midwest Community Policing Institute. "That goes beyond the experience of SWAT teams."

Cusick, who is developing the program along with institute training director William Micklus, said local authorities have a better chance of defusing violent confrontations by immediately engaging suspects in discussions about their military experience -- not with force.

The aim, Micklus said, is to try to reconnect them with "a sense of integrity" lost in the fog of emotional distress.

"You can't win by trying to out-combat them,'' Cusick said. "You emphasize what it means to be a Marine, a soldier to people who now feel out of control."

There is no data that specifically tracks police confrontations with suspects currently or formerly associated with the military. But an Army report issued this year found that violent felonies in the service were up 1% while non-violent felonies increased 11% between 2010 and 2011.

During that time, however, crime in much of the nation declined.

"What we're seeing is that the volume (of violent incidents involving military personnel off base) has ratcheted up to a level we have never seen before," Cusick said.

Much of the anecdotal evidence reads like the report of the Jan. 13 standoff between Army Staff Sgt. Joshua Eisenhauer, 30, a veteran of multiple combat tours, and Fayetteville, N.C., police and firefighters.

A 911 call from an apartment complex manager revealed that Eisenhauer was allegedly barricaded inside one of the apartments exchanging gunfire with police.

Although the suspect was not specifically identified as a soldier, the apartment manager told a police dispatcher that the suspect was "under psychiatric care," according to the 911 call.

According to Fort Bragg records, Eisenhauer had been assigned to the post's Warrior Transition Battalion, a unit for soldiers who have been wounded or suffered other illnesses as a result of their deployment, Womack Army Medical Center spokeswoman Shannon Lynch said.

Eisenhauer, who was wounded in the standoff along with two police officers, is charged with 30 criminal counts, including 15 counts of attempted murder.

Darrel Stephens, executive director of the Major Cities (Police) Chiefs Association, said the type of training proposed by the Justice Department represents "one piece of the challenge'' in dealing with an increasing number of mentally ill suspects.

"This has been a challenge for a number of years in our communities," Stephens said.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.officer.com/news/10619340/police-get-help-with-confronting-veterans[/url]

gunnails · 01-29-2012, 03:00 PM

The Justice Department scores a few +++ for this. Seems law enforcement could use the tactic in situations involving non veterans also.

Jetdawgg · 01-29-2012, 05:50 PM

[QUOTE=gunnails;4351388]The Justice Department scores a few +++ for this. Seems law enforcement could use the tactic in situations involving non veterans also.[/QUOTE]

My thoughts also G. Why do they (the police) have to violate the rights of anyone anyway?

Veterans have (generally) a better understanding of the constitution and there are many that are capable of extreme violence when their rights are violated by anyone, including the police.

The #occupy movement has placed the police at odds with veterans. The people still rue this nation. We just have to believe and keep pushing.

32green · 01-29-2012, 07:53 PM

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351538]My thoughts also G. Why do they (the police) have to violate the rights of anyone anyway?

[/QUOTE]

Cause its just darn fun.

:dunno:

I'm positive all those cops woke up thinking "I hope I get a call to an apt. complex with a guy firing guns at people so I can violate his rights at some point. If he's a veteran, even better!!!!!"

:rolleyes:

Jetdawgg · 01-30-2012, 12:03 AM

[QUOTE=32green;4351700]Cause its just darn fun.

:dunno:

I'm positive all those cops woke up thinking "I hope I get a call to an apt. complex with a guy firing guns at people so I can violate his rights at some point. If he's a veteran, even better!!!!!"

:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Not every 911 call is a gun battle. There is just too much tv influence around these parts. I am sure that the police go flying thru the air during these battles shooting the bad guys.

Most cops I know spend more time eating donuts and reading porno magazines than getting into gun battles. Furthermore, many veterans become police officers.

Why do police officers always seem to choose some extreme example of police work?

Ernie · 01-30-2012, 07:22 AM

[QUOTE=32green;4351700]Cause its just darn fun.

:dunno:

I'm positive all those cops woke up thinking "I hope I get a call to an apt. complex with a guy firing guns at people so I can violate his rights at some point. If he's a veteran, even better!!!!!"

:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351938]Not every 911 call is a gun battle. There is just too much tv influence around these parts. I am sure that the police go flying thru the air during these battles shooting the bad guys.

Most cops I know spend more time eating donuts and reading porno magazines than getting into gun battles. Furthermore, many veterans become police officers.

Why do police officers always seem to choose some extreme example of police work?[/QUOTE]

Oh Brother. Get your popcorn out for this one.

cr726 · 01-30-2012, 07:50 AM

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351938]Not every 911 call is a gun battle. There is just too much tv influence around these parts. I am sure that the police go flying thru the air during these battles shooting the bad guys.

Most cops I know spend more time eating donuts and reading porno magazines than getting into gun battles. Furthermore, many veterans become police officers.

Why do police officers always seem to choose some extreme example of police work?[/QUOTE]

You contradict yourself and just say stupid things. :zzz:

JetPotato · 01-30-2012, 08:06 AM

[I]"mentally ill suspects who also happen to be trained in modern warfare"[/I]

Jetdawgg · 01-30-2012, 09:21 AM

[QUOTE=JetPotato;4352031][I]"mentally ill suspects who also happen to be trained in modern warfare"[/I][/QUOTE]

LOL. There is a great deal of credence to that sentence

Jetdawgg · 01-30-2012, 09:23 AM

[QUOTE=cr726;4352021]You contradict yourself and just say stupid things. :zzz:[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRrj9ovqyqzC1NKiB9aSPedb4G7jmkscGAQu__IWceZbvEnv-SGLpAA3O4anQ[/IMG]

Jetdawgg · 01-30-2012, 09:25 AM

[QUOTE=Ernie;4352010]Oh Brother. Get your popcorn out for this one.[/QUOTE]

Just adding a little levity to a very serious subject.

JetPotato · 01-30-2012, 09:30 AM

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4352079]LOL. There is a great deal of credence to that sentence[/QUOTE]

Yes. Yes there is.

palmetto defender · 01-30-2012, 10:19 AM

Using reason and negotiation is always the way to start to defuse a violent situation.
Police should exercise caution for their own safety and that of bystanders/innocent participants. However, a criminal is a criminal. I could not care less if he/she is a veteran or a current memeber of the military. I am tired of hearing excuses about returning vets. The excuses here are worse than from the Vietnam War. Get over it and move on. WWII guys did not seem to have the level of problems these guys do.
Maybe we are building softer men. Or maybe an all volunteer military is not the way to go. We are eliminating an entire upper level of people from service.

Trades · 01-30-2012, 10:23 AM

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351938]Not every 911 call is a gun battle. There is just too much tv influence around these parts. I am sure that the police go flying thru the air during these battles shooting the bad guys.

Most cops I know spend more time eating donuts and reading porno magazines than getting into gun battles. Furthermore, many veterans become police officers.

Why do police officers always seem to choose some extreme example of police work?[/QUOTE]

They still make porno mags? I figured the internet put them out of business a long time ago.

Warfish · 01-30-2012, 10:57 AM

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351538]Veterans have (generally) a better understanding of the constitution[/quote]

You base that claim on what?

[quote]The people still rue this nation. We just have to believe and keep pushing.[/QUOTE]

Pushing for what, specificly?

32green · 01-30-2012, 04:06 PM

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351938]Not every 911 call is a gun battle. [/QUOTE]

A cop only needs one call....to die.

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351938]There is just too much tv influence around these parts. [/QUOTE]

The cops shot at this guy not because he shot at them, but because of what they saw on TV?

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351938]I am sure that the police go flying thru the air during these battles shooting the bad guys.[/QUOTE]

If flying through the air during gunbattles helps shoot more bad guys, I'm all for it.

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351938]Most cops I know spend more time eating donuts and reading porno magazines than getting into gun battles.[/QUOTE]

Then when do they find time to harass vets for no reason?

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351938]Furthermore, many veterans become police officers.[/QUOTE]

Well, for the porn and donuts, of course.

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351938]Why do police officers always seem to choose some extreme example of police work? [/QUOTE]

After attending well over 40 police funerals, the lost dog calls seem fuzzy.

Can I just continue to use the extreme dead cop examples?

:dunno:

Warfish · 01-30-2012, 04:35 PM

[QUOTE=32green;4352608]:dunno:[/QUOTE]

Suprised you even bothered tbh Green. DerpDawgg is Derp.

Always has been on an topic involving "Veterans", i.e. himself.

gunnails · 01-30-2012, 04:45 PM

32 [B]G[/B],

I always appreciate your thoughts on these discussions as some one who has walked the walk and served there community in such a reasoned, experience, committed fashion.

Thank you for your service.

Being in law enforcement and tasked with enforcing the law and protecting the community is a heavy responsibility often with immense sacrifice attached.

law enforcement does not always have the luxury of time to determine the facts/reality of all situations they encounter as a whole. This is why training, experience, and policy play such a large part in the job, it is often necessary to react rather then reason.

I understand how policing in this great country has come to what it is today.
There is in fact a disconnect between LEO and the rest of the citizenry due to many factors.
As a whole the citizens are 95% behind LEO, the question is how do we get that number to 99%?

I think the Justice Department is doing a great thing here in trying to educate LEO that there are other ways then force to eliminate a threat to public safety. Not that LEO is not aware of this fact already, but it seems to me that understandably that training and policy have veered to the path of overwhelm and eliminate the threat by force as a first choice, rather then reason and diffuse.

As always I acknowledge that my views are probably all wrong, as I have little personal experience to speak to these matters.

Sorry for the rambling folks.

gunnails · 01-30-2012, 04:48 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish;4352664]Suprised you even bothered tbh Green. DerpDawgg is Derp.

Always has been on an topic involving "Veterans", i.e. himself.[/QUOTE]

===================================

Derp, possibly.

JD does express views held by many, right or wrong, and is deserving of some respect as a veteran.

32green · 01-30-2012, 05:10 PM

[QUOTE=gunnails;4352678]32 [B]G[/B],

I always appreciate your thoughts on these discussions as some one who has walked the walk and served there community in such a reasoned, experience, committed fashion.

Thank you for your service.

Being in law enforcement and tasked with enforcing the law and protecting the community is a heavy responsibility often with immense sacrifice attached.

law enforcement does not always have the luxury of time to determine the facts/reality of all situations they encounter as a whole. This is why training, experience, and policy play such a large part in the job, it is often necessary to react rather then reason.

I understand how policing in this great country has come to what it is today.
There is in fact a disconnect between LEO and the rest of the citizenry due to many factors.
As a whole the citizens are 95% behind LEO, the question is how do we get that number to 99%?

I think the Justice Department is doing a great thing here in trying to educate LEO that there are other ways then force to eliminate a threat to public safety. Not that LEO is not aware of this fact already, but it seems to me that understandably that training and policy have veered to the path of overwhelm and eliminate the threat by force as a first choice, rather then reason and diffuse.

As always I acknowledge that my views are probably all wrong, as I have little personal experience to speak to these matters.

Sorry for the rambling folks.[/QUOTE]

I dont disagree with anything you said.

Training is varied across the country and I'm sure alot of the smaller depts. dont have access to the training that the bigger ones do, and unfortunately they will also be dealing with alot of Vets.

I have no problem with this training, actually.

Looks like its the basic EDP Training/hostage negotiation training with military familiarization tools to use in such situations.

01-29-2012, 02:49 PM	#1
Jetdawgg All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 6,687	Police Get Help With Confronting Veterans [QUOTE]The Justice Department is funding an unusual national training program to help police deal with an increasing number of volatile confrontations involving combat veterans. The Justice Department is funding an unusual national training program to help police deal with an increasing number of volatile confrontations involving highly trained and often heavily armed combat veterans. Developers of the pilot program, to be launched at 15 U.S. sites this year, said there is an "urgent need" to de-escalate crises in which even SWAT teams may be facing tactical disadvantages against mentally ill suspects who also happen to be trained in modern warfare. "We just can't use the blazing-guns approach anymore when dealing with disturbed individuals who are highly trained in all kinds of tactical operations, including guerrilla warfare," said Dennis Cusick, executive director of the Upper Midwest Community Policing Institute. "That goes beyond the experience of SWAT teams." Cusick, who is developing the program along with institute training director William Micklus, said local authorities have a better chance of defusing violent confrontations by immediately engaging suspects in discussions about their military experience -- not with force. The aim, Micklus said, is to try to reconnect them with "a sense of integrity" lost in the fog of emotional distress. "You can't win by trying to out-combat them,'' Cusick said. "You emphasize what it means to be a Marine, a soldier to people who now feel out of control." There is no data that specifically tracks police confrontations with suspects currently or formerly associated with the military. But an Army report issued this year found that violent felonies in the service were up 1% while non-violent felonies increased 11% between 2010 and 2011. During that time, however, crime in much of the nation declined. "What we're seeing is that the volume (of violent incidents involving military personnel off base) has ratcheted up to a level we have never seen before," Cusick said. Much of the anecdotal evidence reads like the report of the Jan. 13 standoff between Army Staff Sgt. Joshua Eisenhauer, 30, a veteran of multiple combat tours, and Fayetteville, N.C., police and firefighters. A 911 call from an apartment complex manager revealed that Eisenhauer was allegedly barricaded inside one of the apartments exchanging gunfire with police. Although the suspect was not specifically identified as a soldier, the apartment manager told a police dispatcher that the suspect was "under psychiatric care," according to the 911 call. According to Fort Bragg records, Eisenhauer had been assigned to the post's Warrior Transition Battalion, a unit for soldiers who have been wounded or suffered other illnesses as a result of their deployment, Womack Army Medical Center spokeswoman Shannon Lynch said. Eisenhauer, who was wounded in the standoff along with two police officers, is charged with 30 criminal counts, including 15 counts of attempted murder. Darrel Stephens, executive director of the Major Cities (Police) Chiefs Association, said the type of training proposed by the Justice Department represents "one piece of the challenge'' in dealing with an increasing number of mentally ill suspects. "This has been a challenge for a number of years in our communities," Stephens said.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.officer.com/news/10619340/police-get-help-with-confronting-veterans[/url]

01-30-2012, 09:21 AM	#9
Jetdawgg All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 6,687	[QUOTE=JetPotato;4352031][I]"mentally ill suspects who also happen to be trained in modern warfare"[/I][/QUOTE] LOL. There is a great deal of credence to that sentence Last edited by Jetdawgg; 01-30-2012 at 09:23 AM.

01-30-2012, 09:23 AM	#10
Jetdawgg All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 6,687	Calm down Sgt Stryker [QUOTE=cr726;4352021]You contradict yourself and just say stupid things. :zzz:[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRrj9ovqyqzC1NKiB9aSPedb4G7jmkscGAQu__IWceZbvEnv-SGLpAA3O4anQ[/IMG]

01-29-2012, 03:00 PM	#2
gunnails All League Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 4,516	The Justice Department scores a few +++ for this. Seems law enforcement could use the tactic in situations involving non veterans also.

01-29-2012, 05:50 PM	#3
Jetdawgg All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 6,687	[QUOTE=gunnails;4351388]The Justice Department scores a few +++ for this. Seems law enforcement could use the tactic in situations involving non veterans also.[/QUOTE] My thoughts also G. Why do they (the police) have to violate the rights of anyone anyway? Veterans have (generally) a better understanding of the constitution and there are many that are capable of extreme violence when their rights are violated by anyone, including the police. The #occupy movement has placed the police at odds with veterans. The people still rue this nation. We just have to believe and keep pushing.

01-29-2012, 07:53 PM	#4
32green The original road-kill pus slurper. MMMmmm pus. Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The depths of Despair. Posts: 37,672	[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351538]My thoughts also G. Why do they (the police) have to violate the rights of anyone anyway? [/QUOTE] Cause its just darn fun. :dunno: I'm positive all those cops woke up thinking "I hope I get a call to an apt. complex with a guy firing guns at people so I can violate his rights at some point. If he's a veteran, even better!!!!!" :rolleyes:

01-30-2012, 12:03 AM	#5
Jetdawgg All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 6,687	[QUOTE=32green;4351700]Cause its just darn fun. :dunno: I'm positive all those cops woke up thinking "I hope I get a call to an apt. complex with a guy firing guns at people so I can violate his rights at some point. If he's a veteran, even better!!!!!" :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] Not every 911 call is a gun battle. There is just too much tv influence around these parts. I am sure that the police go flying thru the air during these battles shooting the bad guys. Most cops I know spend more time eating donuts and reading porno magazines than getting into gun battles. Furthermore, many veterans become police officers. Why do police officers always seem to choose some extreme example of police work?

01-30-2012, 07:22 AM	#6
Ernie Seeks the Truth!!! Rookie Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 846	[QUOTE=32green;4351700]Cause its just darn fun. :dunno: I'm positive all those cops woke up thinking "I hope I get a call to an apt. complex with a guy firing guns at people so I can violate his rights at some point. If he's a veteran, even better!!!!!" :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351938]Not every 911 call is a gun battle. There is just too much tv influence around these parts. I am sure that the police go flying thru the air during these battles shooting the bad guys. Most cops I know spend more time eating donuts and reading porno magazines than getting into gun battles. Furthermore, many veterans become police officers. Why do police officers always seem to choose some extreme example of police work?[/QUOTE] Oh Brother. Get your popcorn out for this one.

01-30-2012, 07:50 AM	#7
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,272	[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351938]Not every 911 call is a gun battle. There is just too much tv influence around these parts. I am sure that the police go flying thru the air during these battles shooting the bad guys. Most cops I know spend more time eating donuts and reading porno magazines than getting into gun battles. Furthermore, many veterans become police officers. Why do police officers always seem to choose some extreme example of police work?[/QUOTE] You contradict yourself and just say stupid things. :zzz:

01-30-2012, 08:06 AM	#8
JetPotato fermenting Hall Of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 12,117	[I]"mentally ill suspects who also happen to be trained in modern warfare"[/I]

01-30-2012, 09:25 AM	#11
Jetdawgg All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 6,687	[QUOTE=Ernie;4352010]Oh Brother. Get your popcorn out for this one.[/QUOTE] Just adding a little levity to a very serious subject.

01-30-2012, 09:30 AM	#12
JetPotato fermenting Hall Of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 12,117	[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4352079]LOL. There is a great deal of credence to that sentence[/QUOTE] Yes. Yes there is.

01-30-2012, 10:19 AM	#13
palmetto defender All League Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 4,630	Using reason and negotiation is always the way to start to defuse a violent situation. Police should exercise caution for their own safety and that of bystanders/innocent participants. However, a criminal is a criminal. I could not care less if he/she is a veteran or a current memeber of the military. I am tired of hearing excuses about returning vets. The excuses here are worse than from the Vietnam War. Get over it and move on. WWII guys did not seem to have the level of problems these guys do. Maybe we are building softer men. Or maybe an all volunteer military is not the way to go. We are eliminating an entire upper level of people from service.

01-30-2012, 10:23 AM	#14
Trades Jets Insider VIP Join Date: May 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 5,550	[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351938]Not every 911 call is a gun battle. There is just too much tv influence around these parts. I am sure that the police go flying thru the air during these battles shooting the bad guys. Most cops I know spend more time eating donuts and reading porno magazines than getting into gun battles. Furthermore, many veterans become police officers. Why do police officers always seem to choose some extreme example of police work?[/QUOTE] They still make porno mags? I figured the internet put them out of business a long time ago.

01-30-2012, 10:57 AM	#15
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351538]Veterans have (generally) a better understanding of the constitution[/quote] You base that claim on what? [quote]The people still rue this nation. We just have to believe and keep pushing.[/QUOTE] Pushing for what, specificly?

01-30-2012, 04:06 PM	#16
32green The original road-kill pus slurper. MMMmmm pus. Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The depths of Despair. Posts: 37,672	[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351938]Not every 911 call is a gun battle. [/QUOTE] A cop only needs one call....to die. [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351938]There is just too much tv influence around these parts. [/QUOTE] The cops shot at this guy not because he shot at them, but because of what they saw on TV? [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351938]I am sure that the police go flying thru the air during these battles shooting the bad guys.[/QUOTE] If flying through the air during gunbattles helps shoot more bad guys, I'm all for it. [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351938]Most cops I know spend more time eating donuts and reading porno magazines than getting into gun battles.[/QUOTE] Then when do they find time to harass vets for no reason? [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351938]Furthermore, many veterans become police officers.[/QUOTE] Well, for the porn and donuts, of course. [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4351938]Why do police officers always seem to choose some extreme example of police work? [/QUOTE] After attending well over 40 police funerals, the lost dog calls seem fuzzy. Can I just continue to use the extreme dead cop examples? :dunno:

01-30-2012, 04:35 PM	#17
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=32green;4352608]:dunno:[/QUOTE] Suprised you even bothered tbh Green. DerpDawgg is Derp. Always has been on an topic involving "Veterans", i.e. himself.

01-30-2012, 04:45 PM	#18
gunnails All League Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 4,516	32 [B]G[/B], I always appreciate your thoughts on these discussions as some one who has walked the walk and served there community in such a reasoned, experience, committed fashion. Thank you for your service. Being in law enforcement and tasked with enforcing the law and protecting the community is a heavy responsibility often with immense sacrifice attached. law enforcement does not always have the luxury of time to determine the facts/reality of all situations they encounter as a whole. This is why training, experience, and policy play such a large part in the job, it is often necessary to react rather then reason. I understand how policing in this great country has come to what it is today. There is in fact a disconnect between LEO and the rest of the citizenry due to many factors. As a whole the citizens are 95% behind LEO, the question is how do we get that number to 99%? I think the Justice Department is doing a great thing here in trying to educate LEO that there are other ways then force to eliminate a threat to public safety. Not that LEO is not aware of this fact already, but it seems to me that understandably that training and policy have veered to the path of overwhelm and eliminate the threat by force as a first choice, rather then reason and diffuse. As always I acknowledge that my views are probably all wrong, as I have little personal experience to speak to these matters. Sorry for the rambling folks.

01-30-2012, 04:48 PM	#19
gunnails All League Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 4,516	[QUOTE=Warfish;4352664]Suprised you even bothered tbh Green. DerpDawgg is Derp. Always has been on an topic involving "Veterans", i.e. himself.[/QUOTE] =================================== Derp, possibly. JD does express views held by many, right or wrong, and is deserving of some respect as a veteran.

01-30-2012, 05:10 PM	#20
32green The original road-kill pus slurper. MMMmmm pus. Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The depths of Despair. Posts: 37,672	[QUOTE=gunnails;4352678]32 [B]G[/B], I always appreciate your thoughts on these discussions as some one who has walked the walk and served there community in such a reasoned, experience, committed fashion. Thank you for your service. Being in law enforcement and tasked with enforcing the law and protecting the community is a heavy responsibility often with immense sacrifice attached. law enforcement does not always have the luxury of time to determine the facts/reality of all situations they encounter as a whole. This is why training, experience, and policy play such a large part in the job, it is often necessary to react rather then reason. I understand how policing in this great country has come to what it is today. There is in fact a disconnect between LEO and the rest of the citizenry due to many factors. As a whole the citizens are 95% behind LEO, the question is how do we get that number to 99%? I think the Justice Department is doing a great thing here in trying to educate LEO that there are other ways then force to eliminate a threat to public safety. Not that LEO is not aware of this fact already, but it seems to me that understandably that training and policy have veered to the path of overwhelm and eliminate the threat by force as a first choice, rather then reason and diffuse. As always I acknowledge that my views are probably all wrong, as I have little personal experience to speak to these matters. Sorry for the rambling folks.[/QUOTE] I dont disagree with anything you said. Training is varied across the country and I'm sure alot of the smaller depts. dont have access to the training that the bigger ones do, and unfortunately they will also be dealing with alot of Vets. I have no problem with this training, actually. Looks like its the basic EDP Training/hostage negotiation training with military familiarization tools to use in such situations.