Wilkerson left off Kiper's top 20

[DDNYjets]

Mangini drafted Gholston b.c he wanted to keep him away from Belichick. Belichick was in love with Gholston in 2008. I don't think Mangini was high on Gholston, he was playing keep away while trying to fill a need.

Outside of Gholston Mangini hit HRs in the draft. And in the years since it has been proven that Tanny and his "scouts" can't evaluate sh*t. In a lot of ways the 2009 and 2010 teams were Mangini's. They key draft picks and FAs were all brought in by him. Rex has produced Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard. Brick, Mangold, Revis, Harris, Keller, Faneca, Woody, Jenkins, Jones, Pace, T Rich all Mangini recruits.

[greenwichjetfan]

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

Mangini drafted Gholston b.c he wanted to keep him away from Belichick. Belichick was in love with Gholston in 2008. I don't think Mangini was high on Gholston, he was playing keep away while trying to fill a need.

Outside of Gholston Mangini hit HRs in the draft. And in the years since it has been proven that Tanny and his "scouts" can't evaluate sh*t. In a lot of ways the 2009 and 2010 teams were Mangini's. They key draft picks and FAs were all brought in by him. Rex has produced Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard. Brick, Mangold, Revis, Harris, Keller, Faneca, Woody, Jenkins, Jones, Pace, T Rich all Mangini recruits.

I came in this thread to simply write, "No offense, but does anyone actually still care about Kiper Jr. and his post draft analysis?"...but this was the first post on the page and I read it, and I couldn't agree more.

Mangini, for his deficiencies as a coach, is a top notch Xs and Os guy, and a GREAT talent evaluator. As much as I love Rex (maybe I see past his faults sometimes), Mangini was clearly the brains behind the '09-'10 teams...Rex was the chief executive officer.

[section314]

8 of the top 20(40%) weren't 1st rounders. Even more reason this year, and in the future, for the Jets to keep our picks, not use them to pick up other teams' problem children.

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by greenwichjetfan

I came in this thread to simply write, "No offense, but does anyone actually still care about Kiper Jr. and his post draft analysis?"...but this was the first post on the page and I read it, and I couldn't agree more.

Mangini, for his deficiencies as a coach, is a top notch Xs and Os guy, and a GREAT talent evaluator. As much as I love Rex (maybe I see past his faults sometimes), Mangini was clearly the brains behind the '09-'10 teams...Rex was the chief executive officer.

I totally agree about mangini. I think we just got him too early. He had his cleveland teams playing hard, and i Just think he needs to develop as a person and figure out what kind of coach he is. The hard-nosed approach works for someone like coughlin who put in years as a successful coach in college, then with an expansion team, and then the giants. It doesn't really work with a young guy, who wasn't even a coordinator (i believe he wasn't DC in NE before he came here)....the players don't like it.

I think he can be a good coach in 1-2 years once he tires of the espn gig.

[TheMo]

Originally Posted by C Mart

Oh great look who's back.

Didn't he promise he'd disappear if Reed was drafted by someone else. Also pretty sure he said he'd never post again if Reed wasn't drafted in the first... which he wasn't you dolt.

[dmitexxi]

Originally Posted by Magnus

They need to add Gholston, Sanchez, and Ducasse.

I've had enough. Where is the ignore button??

[Dreamers]

Originally Posted by John_0515

Mel Kiper Jr. clearly didn't even look at the Jets' roster when making this top 20.

Not putting Wilkerson on this list just means you don't take anything he says as seriously as you used to.

I actually think it is more of an insult he put Little but not Kersley. I really think Kersley looked like a solid guy at the end of the year. Little was the #1 guy in Cleveland and had what 2 TDs and only 709 yards. That is just not impressive. Kerley started out the #4 WR behind Mason, Holmes, and Plax. He was also likely to be the #5 if Turner was healthy. Then looked better then all of them when he actually got in the game. It is kinda why I say F these old guys at WR put the youngins in. Sure he was no Torrey Smith but looked a lot better then Little.

[jpoppy7]

Originally Posted by Dreamers

I actually think it is more of an insult he put Little but not Kersley. I really think Kersley looked like a solid guy at the end of the year. Little was the #1 guy in Cleveland and had what 2 TDs and only 709 yards. That is just not impressive. Kerley started out the #4 WR behind Mason, Holmes, and Plax. He was also likely to be the #5 if Turner was healthy. Then looked better then all of them when he actually got in the game. It is kinda why I say F these old guys at WR put the youngins in. Sure he was no Torrey Smith but looked a lot better then Little.

Only 709 yards is more than any Jets WR, and 400 more than Kerley.

Kerley had a nice season for a rookie slot WR, but let's not get carried away. Made some nice catches, but never really did anything after the catch. At best he was an average #3 WR. Good season for a rookie 5th round pick, nothing more.

[augustiniak]

i don't see the big deal in kiper's rankings. does it really matter?

[DrPepperFries]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

1. Cam Newton (Panthers) | Draft Position: 1
The amazing thing about Newton wasn't just how much he developed, but how much he developed between his final college game and his first NFL game. He destroyed the rookie passing yardage mark with 4,051 yards, had a positive TD-INT ratio and was the second-highest rusher among rookies. He's a passer first, with the profile of a certain superstar.

2. Von Miller (Broncos) | Draft Position: 2
Fewer sacks than the next man on the list, but was a complete linebacker and still managed 11.5. Good from day one, was slowed by injury but still made the Pro Bowl. He'll be a regular there.

3. Aldon Smith (49ers) | Draft Position: 7
I saw Smith as a potential star, but more in the Jason Pierre-Paul mode, where he'd need a little developmental time. But give the Niners credit: With Justin Smith and Ray McDonald occupying on the inside, they gave Smith the perfect space to blow up early on the edge. He piled up a rookie-high 14.5 sacks. He's a major talent teams have to plan around.

4. A.J. Green (Bengals) | Draft Position: 4
With 1,057 yards, 7 TD catches and plenty of highlights, Green is already a dangerous No. 1 option at wide receiver, and was invited to Hawaii. Will only get better and will continue to grease the wheels for the success of a fellow rookie.

5. Andy Dalton (Bengals) | Draft Position: 35
He came in with a lot of experience -- Dalton is five months older than Matthew Stafford -- but still was remarkably steady and poised as a rookie. He had nearly 3,400 yards passing, a solid 20-to-13 TD-INT ratio and a playoff start in his first year. Dalton has the potential to become a Pro Bowl passer.

6. J.J. Watt (Texans) | Draft Position: 11
A key to the leap Houston made on defense under Wade Phillips, Watt was as advertised, playing exactly as Houston had hoped within its scheme. I mentioned Justin Smith, and Watt profiles as that type of player, occupying blocks while still getting to QBs from the inside. He did just that 5.5 times as a rookie and was terrific in the postseason.

7. Patrick Peterson (Cardinals) | Draft Position: 5
Worked through some rough edges as a cover corner, but Peterson's talent still shined, particularly in the return game, where he already can't be punted to. His cover skills have improved, and he's a field position nightmare. A star, with a Pro Bowl invite already.

8. Jabaal Sheard (Browns) | Draft Position: 37
A versatile, solid pass-rusher who piled up 8.5 sacks while showing a mature approach. The Browns really strengthened their defensive line with their first two picks in 2011.

9. Julio Jones (Falcons) | Draft Position: 6
Precisely the home-run threat the Falcons envisioned when they traded so much to get him, his catches went for 17.8 yards on average. He had 989 receiving yards, and might already cause more matchup problems for defenses than Roddy White.

10. Richard Sherman (Seahawks) | Draft Position: 154
He didn't start immediately, but he did get 10 total, and played at what I consider a Pro Bowl level for the second half of the season, helping to galvanize a suddenly very impressive Seattle secondary. He's long at 6-foot-3, and can battle against big wideouts.

11. Stefen Wisniewski (Raiders) | Draft Position: 48
Started all 16 games and provided great work on the interior of that line. A solid regular with Pro Bowl potential for years to come.

[+] Enlarge
Matthew Emmons/US Presswire
DeMarco Murray showed his potential before getting hurt.
12. Tyron Smith (Cowboys) | Draft Position: 9
Dropped only because he was drafted for left tackle and developed this year on the right side, Smith got better every game and could become an elite blindside tackle if he continues at this rate. Still extremely young.

13. Marcell Dareus (Bills) | Draft Position: 3
Has the potential to become an elite defensive tackle as Buffalo transitions to the 4-3. Loaded with talent and potential, he managed 5.5 sacks in 2011.

14. Ryan Kerrigan (Redskins) | Draft Position: 16
In a year when Kerrigan was learning to play a new position, he played it very well. Now an outside linebacker, he showed his usual relentlessness and picked up 7.5 sacks. Not overly gifted as an athlete, but the motor makes up for it.

15. DeMarco Murray (Cowboys) | Draft Position: 71
Would have easily surpassed 1,000 yards if not for an injury, Murray started just seven games (played in 13) and still managed 897 yards. He also proved he's a threat to break off big runs. If he's healthy, could get starter reps for Dallas in 2012.

16. Adrian Clayborn (Bucs) | Draft Position: 20
He wasn't fully healthy during his final year at Iowa, and showed more explosiveness in his first year on Sundays. Managed 7.5 sacks, and with improvement could become a Pro Bowl DE.

17. Mike Pouncey (Dolphins) | Draft Position: 15
Not at a premier position, but justified his high draft slot with a steady season in which the Miami run game improved.

18. Torrey Smith (Ravens) | Draft Position: 58
Ended up with a similar load for the Ravens as Anquan Boldin (Boldin had 105 targets, Smith 95), but more than twice the TD catches, and was clearly the deep threat on a very good team. Impactful season.

19. Justin Houston (Chiefs) | Draft Position: 70
He gets some credit because he's another guy who had to convert systems, and played really well down the stretch for an underrated Kansas City defense. With 5.5 sacks in his last five games, he could bust out in 2012.

20. Greg Little (Browns) | Draft Position: 59
Not a statistical monster, with 61 catches and 709 yards, but consider the load he took on. Little had 47 more targets than any other Browns player, and 20 more catches.

In the mix: Nate Solder, Phil Taylor, Pernell McPhee, Doug Baldwin, Karl Klug, Brooks Reed, Mason Foster, Sam Acho, Kendall Hunter, K.J. Wright, Roy Helu, Dan Bailey, Alex Henery

Thanks for posting the list. Reviewing it, I couldn't honestly say Wilkerson outperformed anyone in the top 20. You can argue that he should have been "in the mix", but you're being unrealistic with any higher arguments.

[John_0515]

Originally Posted by DrPepperFries

Thanks for posting the list. Reviewing it, I couldn't honestly say Wilkerson outperformed anyone in the top 20. You can argue that he should have been "in the mix", but you're being unrealistic with any higher arguments.

I won't disagree with this, but it looks as if Kiper went by stats when going with the DEs - specifically sacks. TFL - Wilkerson is up in the upper stratosphere of the league, let alone the rookies.

Some of the linemen - that's just obtuse reasoning. Wilkerson deserved to bump someone off of this list. At least be mentioned in "honorable mention".

[DrPepperFries]

Originally Posted by John_0515

I won't disagree with this, but it looks as if Kiper went by stats when going with the DEs - specifically sacks. TFL - Wilkerson is up in the upper stratosphere of the league, let alone the rookies.

Some of the linemen - that's just obtuse reasoning. Wilkerson deserved to bump someone off of this list. At least be mentioned in "honorable mention".

TACK SOLO AST SACK FF FR YDS INT YDS AVG LNG TD PD STF STFYDS KB
2011 Regular Season 49 35 14 3.0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 9 16 0


9 Stuffs (or TFL). That does seem high compared to Jabaal Sheard (7), Marcell Dareus (4), and Justin Houston (6), but just 3 sacks and 1 FF is not going to do it. Honorable mention? Yeah, his name should probably be there, especially if Phil Taylor is mentioned (almost identical stats except TFL).

[John_0515]

Originally Posted by DrPepperFries

TACK SOLO AST SACK FF FR YDS INT YDS AVG LNG TD PD STF STFYDS KB
2011 Regular Season 49 35 14 3.0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 9 16 0


9 Stuffs (or TFL). That does seem high compared to Jabaal Sheard (7), Marcell Dareus (4), and Justin Houston (6), but just 3 sacks and 1 FF is not going to do it. Honorable mention? Yeah, his name should probably be there, especially if Phil Taylor is mentioned (almost identical stats except TFL).

I'm with you on this. He's also a 3-4 DE which affects his stats.

[Tucsonpaint]

Originally Posted by TheMo

Didn't he promise he'd disappear if Reed was drafted by someone else. Also pretty sure he said he'd never post again if Reed wasn't drafted in the first... which he wasn't you dolt.

I said that I wouldn't be back if Brooks wasn't drafted by the Jets----nothing to do with the first round. In fact, I said that I didn't know if Brooks would go in the first, but I did know that those who passed on him would regret it in the future. Despite my statement that I wouldn't be back, I took such pleasure in how the Jets were doing during the season without a good pass rush, that I drop in from time to time.

Here's an interesting stat and site that those of you who didn't know about previously might appreciate:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...qualified=true