Change or delusion?

[Jetdawgg]

[IMG]http://images1.dailykos.com/i/user/191280/mayberomneyshouldntaskthisquestion2.jpg[/IMG]

[url]http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/09/1081895/-Mitt-Romney-needs-another-question[/url]

[palmetto defender]

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4431835][IMG]http://images1.dailykos.com/i/user/191280/mayberomneyshouldntaskthisquestion2.jpg[/IMG]

[url]http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/09/1081895/-Mitt-Romney-needs-another-question[/url][/QUOTE]


I won't attack y since we're both ex vets. Even though you were a Marine. LOL.
Let's use some logic here.
1. Jobs created number is total BS by Obamarama. Think: if jobs are created why is unemployment now higher than at any period in the Bush years? Actually, at no time in Obama's caliphate has unemployment been lower than any time in GWB's.
2. Security: OBL is dead. Problems more than ever in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Arab spring. No friends in Egypt. N. Korea is rocking and rolling with threats. Iran moving forward fast on nukes and threats. Our relations with Russia at the lowest in many years. They just deployed missiles to the west toward Poland.
3. Stock market: it's crapshoot. earnings are what counts. T off. PG off. Kraft off. Merck off. Sony - laying off 10000. Best buy - going bankrupt? T-Mobile - 4000 layoffs. GE - still moving jobs to China. Exxon - 5000 people less than last year.
Not pretty. We need to be done with the communist.

[Jetdawgg]

[QUOTE=palmetto defender;4431901]I won't attack y since we're both ex vets. Even though you were a Marine. LOL.
Let's use some logic here.
1. Jobs created number is total BS by Obamarama. Think: if jobs are created why is unemployment now higher than at any period in the Bush years? Actually, at no time in Obama's caliphate has unemployment been lower than any time in GWB's.
2. Security: OBL is dead. Problems more than ever in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Arab spring. No friends in Egypt. N. Korea is rocking and rolling with threats. Iran moving forward fast on nukes and threats. Our relations with Russia at the lowest in many years. They just deployed missiles to the west toward Poland.
3. Stock market: it's crapshoot. earnings are what counts. T off. PG off. Kraft off. Merck off. Sony - laying off 10000. Best buy - going bankrupt? T-Mobile - 4000 layoffs. GE - still moving jobs to China. Exxon - 5000 people less than last year.
Not pretty. We need to be done with the communist.[/QUOTE]

LOL. Thanks for your service any way vet (lol)

Obama has not delivered when t comes to the economy imo. Part of that is due to the gridlock in congress. The other part is that the unemployment stats are provided by the BLS, whom these days have dropped the 'L'.

The wars have been expanded. The costs of this expansion is an outrage at the least. Furthermore, there is no end in sight. There have even been Marines deployed last week to Australia. With OBL finally dead one may have the thought that the war inn AG could end. It should. I am tired of no longer chatting with my Marine buddies who don't make it back

Stock Market is a crap shoot, but it is favorable if you can get a bailout. Time to end the fed.

Obama is a good man, not a good POTUS. I don't think that Romney is any better and perhaps may even be worse as his FP experience is non existent.

[32green]

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4432330]Obama is a good man, not a good POTUS. [/QUOTE]

Is he? Bill Ayers...Rev. Wright...his mentors. The type of men he was drawn to... before the requirements of his office forbid it.

This is not bloviating...this is a matter of record.

[Jetdawgg]

[QUOTE=32green;4432404]Is he? Bill Ayers...Rev. Wright...his mentors. The type of men he was drawn to... before the requirements of his office forbid it.

This is not bloviating...this is a matter of record.[/QUOTE]

LOL. That is a rather extreme position. One could hold Bush more accountable for some of the people that he is associated with [B]AS[/B] POTUS?

Talk about 'facts'

[32green]

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4432434]LOL. That is a rather extreme position. One could hold Bush more accountable for some of the people that he is associated with [B]AS[/B] POTUS?

Talk about 'facts'[/QUOTE]

Not a position. Fact. Refute anything I said.

:dunno:


-

[Jetdawgg]

[QUOTE=32green;4432443]Not a position. Fact. Refute anything I said.

:dunno:


-[/QUOTE]

I really don't think that Ayers was a 'mentor' for Obama. Rev, Wright is a USMC vet and being a 'mentor' does not mean that someone has to follow your every word.

I get the feeling that you really don't like the current POTUS though

[quantum]

Delusion = 2.7 million jobs created

Should have included foreign policy "successes", just for the LOLZ. :rolleyes:

[palmetto defender]

[QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4432330]LOL. Thanks for your service any way vet (lol)

Obama has not delivered when t comes to the economy imo. Part of that is due to the gridlock in congress. The other part is that the unemployment stats are provided by the BLS, whom these days have dropped the 'L'.

The wars have been expanded. The costs of this expansion is an outrage at the least. Furthermore, there is no end in sight. There have even been Marines deployed last week to Australia. With OBL finally dead one may have the thought that the war inn AG could end. It should. I am tired of no longer chatting with my Marine buddies who don't make it back

Stock Market is a crap shoot, but it is favorable if you can get a bailout. Time to end the fed.

Obama is a good man, not a good POTUS. I don't think that Romney is any better and perhaps may even be worse as his FP experience is non existent.[/QUOTE]

Yes unemployment IS down versus a year ago. But it had escalated severely prior to that under Obama. The Senate has not passed a budget in 3 years. They are Dems. When I ran a division, if I didn't have a budget on time it would have been, "See ya".
What the hell are Marines doing in Australia. I saw that a few months back. An Aborigine uprising? A counter to China? Better at Subic Bay.
I don't know if Obama is bad as a person. He's not evil just has no experience. Romney does. As for FP, Obama is disrespected - weak. Clinton at State? Please. At least GWB had people with experience - Powell, Rice.
The wars have now become a waste of good people. The animals over there hate us - always will. Isolate them. No aid.

[SafetyBlitz]

[QUOTE=palmetto defender;4431901]
1. Jobs created number is total BS by Obamarama. Think: if jobs are created why is unemployment now higher than at any period in the Bush years? Actually, at no time in Obama's caliphate has unemployment been lower than any time in GWB's.[/QUOTE]

The 08 crises hit this country two months before Bush left office and two months before Obama became President.

[QUOTE=palmetto defender;4431901]
2. Security: OBL is dead. Problems more than ever in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Arab spring. No friends in Egypt. N. Korea is rocking and rolling with threats. Iran moving forward fast on nukes and threats. Our relations with Russia at the lowest in many years. They just deployed missiles to the west toward Poland.[/QUOTE]

I see "Arab spring" as if it's both definitely bad and definitely Obama's (or the US's) fault. North Korea is acting like North Korea... wow, Obama's fault again.

Russia!

See this is what pisses me off, you guys use the Arab Spring, North Korea and Russia to attack the President like he can control any of that.

Doubling down on Afghanistan was a failure. That's what you should be focusing on.

That's easily more expensive, dangerous and actually something that Obama had done, was in his control, other than attacking him for not being able to control Arabs, Russians and the North Koreans. LOL!

[QUOTE=palmetto defender;4431901]
3. Stock market: it's crapshoot. earnings are what counts. T off. PG off. Kraft off. Merck off. Sony - laying off 10000. Best buy - going bankrupt? T-Mobile - 4000 layoffs. GE - still moving jobs to China. Exxon - 5000 people less than last year.
Not pretty. We need to be done with the communist.[/QUOTE]

How long was the Great Depression?

How long did it take for us to climb out?

Was the 08's crises the worst financial crises since the Great Depression?

[SafetyBlitz]

[QUOTE=32green;4432404]Is he? Bill Ayers...Rev. Wright...his mentors. The type of men he was drawn to... before the requirements of his office forbid it.

This is not bloviating...this is a matter of record.[/QUOTE]

"Mentors" is always my issue with this statement.

It's like Bill Ayers and Rev. Wright have influence on policy.

What has he done as President to convince you he's a racist like Wright or a terrorist like Ayers?

[palmetto defender]

[QUOTE=SafetyBlitz;4432887]The 08 crises hit this country two months before Bush left office and two months before Obama became President.



I see "Arab spring" as if it's both definitely bad and definitely Obama's (or the US's) fault. North Korea is acting like North Korea... wow, Obama's fault again.

Russia!

See this is what pisses me off, you guys use the Arab Spring, North Korea and Russia to attack the President like he can control any of that.

Doubling down on Afghanistan was a failure. That's what you should be focusing on.

That's easily more expensive, dangerous and actually something that Obama had done, was in his control, other than attacking him for not being able to control Arabs, Russians and the North Koreans. LOL!



How long was the Great Depression?

How long did it take for us to climb out?

Was the 08's crises the worst financial crises since the Great Depression?[/QUOTE]


It's just like the 2001 crisis started under Clinton.. Bush never blamed Clinton. The prob is that the 2009 matter got worse and worse while Omaba did zip.
North Korea and Iran are getting worse. Russia et al are a problem because Obama is viewed as weak. Unilateral nuke disarmament. Nuts.

The Great Depression was much more serious than this last nothing. It lasted until WWII. 12 years+. And a lot of blundering by FDR didn't help along the way.
Confidence is a major part of the remedy. And stability. Obama has inspired neither. He is trying to push programs that will hurt business. Even his own jobs czar, Imeldt of GE, is moving jobs offshore to protect profits.

[acepepe]

[QUOTE=SafetyBlitz;4432887][COLOR="Red"]The 08 crises hit this country two months before Bush left office and two months before Obama became President. [/COLOR]



I see "Arab spring" as if it's both definitely bad and definitely Obama's (or the US's) fault. North Korea is acting like North Korea... wow, Obama's fault again.

Russia!

See this is what pisses me off, you guys use the Arab Spring, North Korea and Russia to attack the President like he can control any of that.

Doubling down on Afghanistan was a failure. That's what you should be focusing on.

That's easily more expensive, dangerous and actually something that Obama had done, was in his control, other than attacking him for not being able to control Arabs, Russians and the North Koreans. LOL!



How long was the Great Depression?

How long did it take for us to climb out?

Was the 08's crises the worst financial crises since the Great Depression?[/QUOTE]

And once AGAIN, who was RUNNING AND LOOTING Fannie and Freddie? The Banking and finance arms of Congress and senate? who resurrected the FAILED Jimmy Carter community reinvestment act?

[url]

[palmetto defender]

[QUOTE=SafetyBlitz;4432895]"Mentors" is always my issue with this statement.

It's like Bill Ayers and Rev. Wright have influence on policy.

What has he done as President to convince you he's a racist like Wright or a terrorist like Ayers?[/QUOTE]


Obama is not a terrorist, period.
I do believe that he is a racist. The Boston prof thing. Trayvon Martin. Speeces to black groups. His wife is a MAJOR racist and she is a significant influence. Rev. Wright is a major Influence. On policy? Maybe not. Influence thinking and character. Absolutely yes. Same with Ayers, a commie.

[JetPotato]

[QUOTE=SafetyBlitz;4432895]"Mentors" is always my issue with this statement.

It's like Bill Ayers and Rev. Wright have influence on policy.

What has he done as President to convince you he's a racist like Wright or a terrorist like Ayers?[/QUOTE]

From what I hear, he tried to bomb Chelsea Clinton

[SafetyBlitz]

[QUOTE=palmetto defender;4432909]Obama is not a terrorist, period.
I do believe that he is a racist. The Boston prof thing. Trayvon Martin. Speeces to black groups. His wife is a MAJOR racist and she is a significant influence. Rev. Wright is a major Influence. On policy? Maybe not. Influence thinking and character. Absolutely yes. Same with Ayers, a commie.[/QUOTE]

What was racist about his response to the Boston professor incident or his mention of Trayvon?

Reporters asked those questions both times and he said "I think the police acted stupidly" and "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon".

Furthermore, the phrase "speeches to black groups" is far too vague. Be specific. And what proof do you have that his wife is a racist?

And finally, even if you were right, and all of these delusions were in fact reality, and if you don't see it in his policy, then you'd have to concede that he doesn't govern like a racist.

[SafetyBlitz]

[QUOTE=palmetto defender;4432901]It's just like the 2001 crisis started under Clinton.. Bush never blamed Clinton. The prob is that the 2009 matter got worse and worse while Omaba did zip.[/QUOTE]

Was the dot cum bubble burst of 01 even close in scope to the 08 crises?

[QUOTE=palmetto defender;4432901]North Korea and Iran are getting worse. Russia et al are a problem because Obama is viewed as weak. Unilateral nuke disarmament. Nuts.[/QUOTE]

The exact treaty he signed with Russia was one that Reagan that pushed for during his presidency - i.e. reduce nuclear arms by a third.

"North Korea and Iran are getting worse" ... What do you see and what do you want to do about that? Or more importantly, where do you think the President has gone wrong on those two?


[QUOTE=palmetto defender;4432901]The Great Depression was much more serious than this last nothing. It lasted until WWII. 12 years+. And a lot of blundering by FDR didn't help along the way.
Confidence is a major part of the remedy. And stability. Obama has inspired neither. He is trying to push programs that will hurt business. Even his own jobs czar, Imeldt of GE, is moving jobs offshore to protect profits.[/QUOTE]

It was a cataclysmic financial event that tanked the world... it was going to take some time to recover from, as is the case now.

The truth is, there is no silver bullet, if the economy tanks in a such an epic way, like was the case in October of 08 or Black Tuesday in '29, it takes years to get back being strong.

To think one term of a President with the opposition party filibustering and saying NO to every goddam thing should yield a quick recovery is stupid.

But these are criticisms from the GOP these days. We should cut cut cut investments and social programs, cut taxes and let the economy sort itself out.

Read about the President just before FDR and his response to the Depression.

[AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite]

[QUOTE=SafetyBlitz;4432977]Was the dot cum bubble burst of 01 even close in scope to the 08 crises?
[/QUOTE]

Depends...

If I told you this...

[quote]The stock market crash of 2000–2002 caused the loss of $5 trillion in the market value of companies from March 2000 to October 2002[/quote]

Then told you that in March of 2000, the publicly traded Internet companies made up a whopping 8% of the market itself... To the tune of meager $1.3 trillion...

[OCCH]

[QUOTE=SafetyBlitz;4432977]
To think one term of a President with the opposition party filibustering and saying NO to every goddam thing should yield a quick recovery is stupid.
[/QUOTE]

This is a fair statement, but let's not forget he had a democratic majority and still couldn't get anything passed.

I agree it's "stupid" to place unreasonable blame on Obama, but it's just as ignorant to assume things would be better if he'd "gotten his way". Many people feel his policies will not benefit this country in the long run, and the fact that he's only been a one-term President doesn't change that fact . . .

[Jetdawgg]

This link shows that Bush and Obama created a great deal of jobs....

[QUOTE]However, this turned out to be a low-water mark. Over the next few years, even before 9/11, the true size of government increased significantly, almost all in the “shadow” sector. By 2005, the federal government employed 14.6 million people: 1.9 million civil servants, 770,000 postal workers, 1.44 million uniformed service personnel, 7.6 million contractors, and 2.9 million grantees. This amounted to a ratio of five and a half “shadow” government employees for every civil servant on the federal payroll. Since 1999, the government had grown by over 4.5 million employees.

Professor Light’s figures are from 2006, but there can be little doubt that the size of the federal government has increased still further since. There are those new contractors and grantees working on “stimulus” projects to add. Then there are the employees of bailed-out and partially nationalized firms: General Motors (still owned in large part by the government despite the sale of stock in November 2010), AIG, and a large number of banks. GM alone employs 300,000 people. In addition, government has increased its mandates and general spending.

All of which suggests a significant expansion in “shadow” government employment since 2005. Even if it grew at the same rate as it did between 1999 and 2005 (a conservative assumption), that would suggest a further 4.7 million employees dependent on taxpayer funding since 2005, bringing the total true size of the federal government to just under 20 million employees.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.nationalreview.com/blogs/print/258768[/url]