Jets Building towards a 4-3 Defense - Page 3 - Jets Insider.com Forums

HessStation · 05-10-2012, 07:48 PM

Not a bad looking future front 7
Wilkerson-Ellis-Dixon-Coples
Davis-Harris-Maybin

NY's stepchild · 05-10-2012, 07:59 PM

[QUOTE=Buzzsaw;4465164]Speculation because of one draft pick, Coples. We've shown every defensive look imaginable since Rex has been here and will continue to do so. We're certainly not copying the Pats, Giants or any other team.[/QUOTE]

We drafted a top 280 lb DE/DT two years in a row, and a 230lb lb, but more telling would be what we didn't draft. A pass rushing OLB. If you want to ignore all that, just to try and belittle others speculations that's your right, but it sounds a lot like you're twisting facts just to make others look bad. Not nearly as blatent as Ash trying to belittle others armed with nothing but his Madden ratings. I agree that we have switched up quite a bit, and our 3/4 was never conventional, but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing to a philosophical change on the way we attack the the line of scrimmage. Basically I'm thinking one gap with the ends goal of penatrating up field, and Davis roaming unimpeded to the ball carrier, with the outside backers responsible for contain on the edges. Even when we went with 4 down lineman we still played basically a 3/4 scheme. Now I think we will move towards a 4/3 philosophy, even when we have 4 lbs in there. Just speculation on my part, but not based only on one player drafted.

NY's stepchild · 05-10-2012, 08:06 PM

[QUOTE=HessStation;4465383]Not a bad looking future front 7
Wilkerson-Ellis-Dixon-Coples
Davis-Harris-Maybin[/QUOTE]

I don't know if it's likely that Maybin ever plays olb in a 4/3. Of course it's possible, but there is no reason to think it likely. More than likely he plays DE on passing downs, and maybe just maybe ILB, while Harris moves outside.

GreenGeek · 05-10-2012, 08:17 PM

[QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4465401]We drafted a top 280 lb DE/DT two years in a row, and a 230lb lb, but more telling would be what we didn't draft. A pass rushing OLB. If you want to ignore all that, just to try and belittle others speculations that's your right, but it sounds a lot like you're twisting facts just to make others look bad. Not nearly as blatent as Ash trying to belittle others armed with nothing but his Madden ratings. I agree that we have switched up quite a bit, and our 3/4 was never conventional, but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing to a philosophical change on the way we attack the the line of scrimmage. Basically I'm thinking one gap with the ends goal of penatrating up field, and Davis roaming unimpeded to the ball carrier, with the outside backers responsible for contain on the edges. Even when we went with 4 down lineman we still played basically a 3/4 scheme. Now I think we will move towards a 4/3 philosophy, even when we have 4 lbs in there. Just speculation on my part, but not based only on one player drafted.[/QUOTE]

+1. Rex shifts the defense so frequently that its wrong to simply call it 3-4 or 4-3. The change is gradual to the players skillset.

I expect to see a better D than last yr, but you won't call it a major philosophical shift but rather an evolution molded to the players.

The homer in me hopes for the same on O. SURELY it has to be less rigid than Schitty!!!

Woody56 · 05-10-2012, 08:17 PM

[QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4465401]We drafted a top 280 lb DE/DT two years in a row, [/QUOTE]

Wilk is 315

If we ran a base 4-3 it would most likely be

LE - Coples
DT - Pouha
DT - Wilkerson
RE - Pace on run/ Maybin on pass

SLB - Scott
MLB - Harris
WLB - Davis

Untouchable · 05-10-2012, 08:49 PM

[QUOTE=Buzzsaw;4465164]Speculation because of one draft pick, Coples. We've shown every defensive look imaginable since Rex has been here and will continue to do so. We're certainly not copying the Pats, Giants or any other team.[/QUOTE]

Exactly

We've never really had a base defense under Rex. We run pretty much everything.

3-4, 4-3, 46, 3-3-5...we do it all.

The addition of guys like Coples and Davis allows us to be even more flexible.

tzinc · 05-10-2012, 10:02 PM

if they go 4-3 they needed to draft a pass rushing dt

Woody56 · 05-10-2012, 10:05 PM

[QUOTE=tzinc;4465546]if they go 4-3 they needed to draft a pass rushing dt[/QUOTE]

Coples played his best at UNC as a DT, racking up 10 sacks as junior. Wilkerson was also a 10 sack guy at Temple as a DT.

Ray Ray19 · 05-10-2012, 10:20 PM

[QUOTE=Raider9175;4465265]Right now The Jets are built more for 3-4. How well Wilkerson and Coples develop into pass rushers- guys that can consistently generate pressure on a Qb, will eventually tell if they can be effective 4-3.

You need the pressure to come from somewhere . If your De's are not getting there than you need the dt's. Do the Jets right now have someone you can say playing fulltime in a four man front he good for maybe 10 sacks.(you would think Coples is capable down the road, but hasn't done it yet) that asking a lot of rookie in his first year. You don't even need someone to get 10 sacks if everyone on the line can get 5-6 sacks each. The problem with the Jets is at Dt you have a lot of one dimensional run stuffers.(have no pass rush ability)

I think on obvious passing downs you can put a pretty effective 4 man front on the field, but right now till those guys I mention develop your probably a better 3-4 defense.[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes:

If Wilkerson and Coples were Raiders, you'd fire off a 12 page post singing their praises, their 40 times, their shuttle times, their potential dominance and HOF potential...

FijiJet · 05-10-2012, 10:45 PM

[QUOTE=Mickey Shuler 82;4465137]Not only is he one of the best NT's in football, he is one of the best defensive players period.

[url]http://www.rantsports.com/new-york-jets/2012/05/05/new-york-jets-darrelle-revis-nick-mangold-sione-pouha-among-the-best-nfl-players-of-2011/[/url]

"Coming in at number 36 on the PFF Top 101 of 2011 is defensive tackle Sione Pouha, who had an outstanding season as the anchor of the Jets defensive line last year."

"This Jet isn’t a player who does a great job of getting to the quarterback, though he did manage a sack and 11 hurries in limited pass rushing opportunities (a +0.7 pass rushing grade). Where his strength lies is his work in the run game, making him an integral part of one of the league’s best defenses. Pouha had our highest grade of all defensive tackles, doing an excellent shop of shedding blocks to make plays, or simply pushing offensive linemen about to re-direct runs. Such a talent.

Best Performance: Week 16 versus New York Giants (+5.2)

Key Stat: 37 defensive stops were the second most of all defensive tackles."[/QUOTE]
Thanks for posting this and corecting Ash the misguided poster

NYJCAP2 · 05-10-2012, 11:40 PM

[QUOTE=Woody56;4465436]Wilk is 315

If we ran a base 4-3 it would most likely be

LE - Coples
DT - Pouha
DT - Wilkerson
RE - Pace on run/ Maybin on pass

SLB - Scott
MLB - Harris
WLB - Davis[/QUOTE]

+1

Still a 3-4 team at the moment though.

TheMo · 05-11-2012, 12:11 AM

[QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4465401][B]We drafted a top 280 lb DE/DT[/B] two years in a row, and a 230lb lb, but more telling would be what we didn't draft. A pass rushing OLB. If you want to ignore all that, just to try and belittle others speculations that's your right, but it sounds a lot like you're twisting facts just to make others look bad. Not nearly as blatent as Ash trying to belittle others armed with nothing but his Madden ratings. I agree that we have switched up quite a bit, and our 3/4 was never conventional, but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing to a philosophical change on the way we attack the the line of scrimmage. Basically I'm thinking one gap with the ends goal of penatrating up field, and Davis roaming unimpeded to the ball carrier, with the outside backers responsible for contain on the edges. Even when we went with 4 down lineman we still played basically a 3/4 scheme. Now I think we will move towards a 4/3 philosophy, even when we have 4 lbs in there. Just speculation on my part, but not based only on one player drafted.[/QUOTE]

Coples is 285... the best 3-4 DE in the NFL IMHO, Justin Smith, is 290. Sean Ellis was 285. People are being narrow minded in what defines a 5-tech. These guys were absolute beasts at the position and were not 300+

FijiJet · 05-11-2012, 12:39 AM

[QUOTE=tzinc;4465546]if they go 4-3 they needed to draft a pass rushing dt[/QUOTE]
And wait one more year? Disagree we got enough talent at DT to go ahead with the 4-3 on passing downs/extra wrinkles on D

Tackleem · 05-11-2012, 01:16 AM

Aaron Maybin as a 4-3 DE? Why is this popping up in the thread? Is there another 235-240 pound 4-3 end in the league? Maybe there is and I just can't think of him. I like the kid and hope he grows but his current skillset makes him a third down 3-4 pass rusher and nothing else. If we ran a pure 4-3 there simply wouldn't be a spot for him. Period.

As for the 3-4/4-3 split, I agree we'll see more four man fronts this year, but I don't think it will be some kind of revolution. Coples is weird in that he's a "tweener" in a different sense -- between 3-4 DE (block absorber, edge sealer, run stuffer) and a 4-3 DE (kill the OT, get after the QB). So he can be versatile for us there. As Rex pointed out at his last presser, there is a reason our three-man front is written up like this:

DE NT DT

The two guys next to Pouha have never had the same role. One is more of a traditional tackle. The other is more of a traditional end.

A comment on drafting for the 4-3 vs. 3-4. One isn't "easier" than the other, in general. The 3-4 was born as a way to make up for having a subpar linebacker squad. It evolved to take advantage of opportunities you don't get in the 4-3, like hiding blitzes and coverages. But if one were clearly better than the other, you wouldn't have the league so evenly split. In fact, college football is starting to use more 3-4s, as is the NFL (I think there are 11 or 12 3-4 teams).

BUT the general rule of thumb is that *competent* (not elite) 3-4 ends are relatively easy to find and *competent* (not elite) 4-3 tackles are relatively easy to find. 3-4 nose tackles and 4-3 ends are much rarer.

Lastly, the most interesting front to me is a 3-4 that puts Pace on Coples' side and Maybin on Wilkerson's side. Which side do you want to run to if you're the opposing offense? Which side should you assign your extra blitz protector to? That's right, you're screwed.

Klecko · 05-11-2012, 02:18 AM

Do You mean that we will use the defense that has Spanked Tom Brady for 2 Super Bowls in last 4 Years?
Christ why not?:mad:

JB1089 · 05-11-2012, 03:39 AM

[QUOTE=Klecko;4465666]Do You mean that we will use the defense that has Spanked Tom Brady for 2 Super Bowls in last 4 Years?
Christ why not?:mad:[/QUOTE]

The 4-3 is an alignment, not a defensive philosophy.

The Giants and Saints defenses both operate primarily from a 4-3 alignment, but couldn't be more different. The Saints blitz more often than any other team in the league while the Giants prefer rely on their front 4.

When the Patriots were still primarily a 3-4 team, their defense had little in common with the 3-4's that were being run in Pittsburgh or Baltimore, two other 3-4's that were also different from one another. New England played a "read and react" defense, Pittsburgh is heavy on zone blitzes, and Baltimore blitzed with man coverage and a single high safety.

patman · 05-11-2012, 06:46 AM

The Jets are a 3/4 team.

Harris is a great ILB against the run, but struggles in his drops.
Scott is a good blitzer, but to ask him to play pass going backwards is looking for trouble.
Davis played going forward vs a low level of comp, he has the speed but to expect him to read routes is asking a lot.
Pace does not seem to have the skills to cover either.

The question is not the dline, Couples, Maybin, Pace, Wilkenson are good enough laterally to play on the outside. Pace and Couples are also athletic enough to drop in to zone allowing a LB to blitz.

Rex will flex to a 4-3 at times, but he did so last year also.

NY's stepchild · 05-11-2012, 06:50 AM

[QUOTE=Woody56;4465436]Wilk is 315

If we ran a base 4-3 it would most likely be

LE - Coples
DT - Pouha
DT - Wilkerson
RE - Pace on run/ Maybin on pass

SLB - Scott
MLB - Harris
WLB - Davis[/QUOTE]

I was talking about Ellis. I'm hoping to pencil him in there instead of Pace, and I'm talking about the way they line up and their gap responsibilities instead of the number of linebackers we have.

NY's stepchild · 05-11-2012, 07:03 AM

[QUOTE=patman;4465678]The Jets are a 3/4 team.

Harris is a great ILB against the run, but struggles in his drops.
Scott is a good blitzer, but to ask him to play pass going backwards is looking for trouble.
Davis played going forward vs a low level of comp, he has the speed but to expect him to read routes is asking a lot.
Pace does not seem to have the skills to cover either.

The question is not the dline, Couples, Maybin, Pace, Wilkenson are good enough laterally to play on the outside. Pace and Couples are also athletic enough to drop in to zone allowing a LB to blitz.

Rex will flex to a 4-3 at times, but he did so last year also.[/QUOTE]

I think Davis plays inside in a 4/3. Roaming sideline to sideline hitting the open gap. I would love it if Maybin could play strong side, but that's just wishful thinking. I don't know if he can. You're right. I don't really know who would be good at the outside positions. It is a completely different philosophy, with different responsibilities, and skill set. Didn't Baltimore play 4/3. Where did Bart line up? I know he's not the player he was, but he may like the challenge of a new system, and I think he'll benefit the most from a new protege in Davis.

NY's stepchild · 05-11-2012, 07:10 AM

[QUOTE=JB1089;4465668]The 4-3 is an alignment, not a defensive philosophy.

The Giants and Saints defenses both operate primarily from a 4-3 alignment, but couldn't be more different. The Saints blitz more often than any other team in the league while the Giants prefer rely on their front 4.

When the Patriots were still primarily a 3-4 team, their defense had little in common with the 3-4's that were being run in Pittsburgh or Baltimore, two other 3-4's that were also different from one another. New England played a "read and react" defense, Pittsburgh is heavy on zone blitzes, and Baltimore blitzed with man coverage and a single high safety.[/QUOTE]

I think that's the problem. People are arguing about oranges and apples. It is a different philosophy. We're not talking about how many lbs you have, we're talking about switching from a two gap to a one gap. Pace and Thomas are lineman in a two gap and lbs in a one gap. I don't know what Harris is in a 2 gap. That's the problem. Maybe Strong side, but can he cover a TE? Can he knock him down? I'm not sure what he can do up tight. I know he can't play inside he's not fast or nimble enough to weave through all that traffic.

05-11-2012, 02:18 AM	#55
Klecko pissed Waterboy Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 50	4-3 Do You mean that we will use the defense that has Spanked Tom Brady for 2 Super Bowls in last 4 Years? Christ why not?:mad:

05-10-2012, 07:48 PM	#41
HessStation All Pro Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,902	Not a bad looking future front 7 Wilkerson-Ellis-Dixon-Coples Davis-Harris-Maybin

05-10-2012, 07:59 PM	#42
NY's stepchild Here's hoping that GS3 under center, and Coples on the edge works out. All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hawthorne NJ Posts: 4,709	[QUOTE=Buzzsaw;4465164]Speculation because of one draft pick, Coples. We've shown every defensive look imaginable since Rex has been here and will continue to do so. We're certainly not copying the Pats, Giants or any other team.[/QUOTE] We drafted a top 280 lb DE/DT two years in a row, and a 230lb lb, but more telling would be what we didn't draft. A pass rushing OLB. If you want to ignore all that, just to try and belittle others speculations that's your right, but it sounds a lot like you're twisting facts just to make others look bad. Not nearly as blatent as Ash trying to belittle others armed with nothing but his Madden ratings. I agree that we have switched up quite a bit, and our 3/4 was never conventional, but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing to a philosophical change on the way we attack the the line of scrimmage. Basically I'm thinking one gap with the ends goal of penatrating up field, and Davis roaming unimpeded to the ball carrier, with the outside backers responsible for contain on the edges. Even when we went with 4 down lineman we still played basically a 3/4 scheme. Now I think we will move towards a 4/3 philosophy, even when we have 4 lbs in there. Just speculation on my part, but not based only on one player drafted.

05-10-2012, 08:06 PM	#43
NY's stepchild Here's hoping that GS3 under center, and Coples on the edge works out. All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hawthorne NJ Posts: 4,709	[QUOTE=HessStation;4465383]Not a bad looking future front 7 Wilkerson-Ellis-Dixon-Coples Davis-Harris-Maybin[/QUOTE] I don't know if it's likely that Maybin ever plays olb in a 4/3. Of course it's possible, but there is no reason to think it likely. More than likely he plays DE on passing downs, and maybe just maybe ILB, while Harris moves outside.

05-10-2012, 08:17 PM	#44
GreenGeek Cautiously optimistic thanks to Idzik. Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Stony Brook Posts: 1,660	[QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4465401]We drafted a top 280 lb DE/DT two years in a row, and a 230lb lb, but more telling would be what we didn't draft. A pass rushing OLB. If you want to ignore all that, just to try and belittle others speculations that's your right, but it sounds a lot like you're twisting facts just to make others look bad. Not nearly as blatent as Ash trying to belittle others armed with nothing but his Madden ratings. I agree that we have switched up quite a bit, and our 3/4 was never conventional, but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing to a philosophical change on the way we attack the the line of scrimmage. Basically I'm thinking one gap with the ends goal of penatrating up field, and Davis roaming unimpeded to the ball carrier, with the outside backers responsible for contain on the edges. Even when we went with 4 down lineman we still played basically a 3/4 scheme. Now I think we will move towards a 4/3 philosophy, even when we have 4 lbs in there. Just speculation on my part, but not based only on one player drafted.[/QUOTE] +1. Rex shifts the defense so frequently that its wrong to simply call it 3-4 or 4-3. The change is gradual to the players skillset. I expect to see a better D than last yr, but you won't call it a major philosophical shift but rather an evolution molded to the players. The homer in me hopes for the same on O. SURELY it has to be less rigid than Schitty!!!

05-10-2012, 08:17 PM	#45
Woody56 Purifying myself in the waters of Lake Minnetonka All League Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Long Island Posts: 3,066	[QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4465401]We drafted a top 280 lb DE/DT two years in a row, [/QUOTE] Wilk is 315 If we ran a base 4-3 it would most likely be LE - Coples DT - Pouha DT - Wilkerson RE - Pace on run/ Maybin on pass SLB - Scott MLB - Harris WLB - Davis

05-10-2012, 08:49 PM	#46
Untouchable Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 22,403	[QUOTE=Buzzsaw;4465164]Speculation because of one draft pick, Coples. We've shown every defensive look imaginable since Rex has been here and will continue to do so. We're certainly not copying the Pats, Giants or any other team.[/QUOTE] Exactly We've never really had a base defense under Rex. We run pretty much everything. 3-4, 4-3, 46, 3-3-5...we do it all. The addition of guys like Coples and Davis allows us to be even more flexible.

05-10-2012, 10:02 PM	#47
tzinc Bleeding Green Practice Squad Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 49	if they go 4-3 they needed to draft a pass rushing dt

05-10-2012, 10:05 PM	#48
Woody56 Purifying myself in the waters of Lake Minnetonka All League Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Long Island Posts: 3,066	[QUOTE=tzinc;4465546]if they go 4-3 they needed to draft a pass rushing dt[/QUOTE] Coples played his best at UNC as a DT, racking up 10 sacks as junior. Wilkerson was also a 10 sack guy at Temple as a DT.

05-10-2012, 10:20 PM	#49
Ray Ray19 Not a SOJF Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 13,797	[QUOTE=Raider9175;4465265]Right now The Jets are built more for 3-4. How well Wilkerson and Coples develop into pass rushers- guys that can consistently generate pressure on a Qb, will eventually tell if they can be effective 4-3. You need the pressure to come from somewhere . If your De's are not getting there than you need the dt's. Do the Jets right now have someone you can say playing fulltime in a four man front he good for maybe 10 sacks.(you would think Coples is capable down the road, but hasn't done it yet) that asking a lot of rookie in his first year. You don't even need someone to get 10 sacks if everyone on the line can get 5-6 sacks each. The problem with the Jets is at Dt you have a lot of one dimensional run stuffers.(have no pass rush ability) I think on obvious passing downs you can put a pretty effective 4 man front on the field, but right now till those guys I mention develop your probably a better 3-4 defense.[/QUOTE] :rolleyes: If Wilkerson and Coples were Raiders, you'd fire off a 12 page post singing their praises, their 40 times, their shuttle times, their potential dominance and HOF potential...

05-10-2012, 10:45 PM	#50
FijiJet waiting for our pass rush thunderbolt All League Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,433	[QUOTE=Mickey Shuler 82;4465137]Not only is he one of the best NT's in football, he is one of the best defensive players period. [url]http://www.rantsports.com/new-york-jets/2012/05/05/new-york-jets-darrelle-revis-nick-mangold-sione-pouha-among-the-best-nfl-players-of-2011/[/url] "Coming in at number 36 on the PFF Top 101 of 2011 is defensive tackle Sione Pouha, who had an outstanding season as the anchor of the Jets defensive line last year." "This Jet isn’t a player who does a great job of getting to the quarterback, though he did manage a sack and 11 hurries in limited pass rushing opportunities (a +0.7 pass rushing grade). Where his strength lies is his work in the run game, making him an integral part of one of the league’s best defenses. Pouha had our highest grade of all defensive tackles, doing an excellent shop of shedding blocks to make plays, or simply pushing offensive linemen about to re-direct runs. Such a talent. Best Performance: Week 16 versus New York Giants (+5.2) Key Stat: 37 defensive stops were the second most of all defensive tackles."[/QUOTE] Thanks for posting this and corecting Ash the misguided poster

05-10-2012, 11:40 PM	#51
NYJCAP2 All League Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Boston Posts: 3,816	[QUOTE=Woody56;4465436]Wilk is 315 If we ran a base 4-3 it would most likely be LE - Coples DT - Pouha DT - Wilkerson RE - Pace on run/ Maybin on pass SLB - Scott MLB - Harris WLB - Davis[/QUOTE] +1 Still a 3-4 team at the moment though.

05-11-2012, 12:11 AM	#52
TheMo All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,343	[QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4465401][B]We drafted a top 280 lb DE/DT[/B] two years in a row, and a 230lb lb, but more telling would be what we didn't draft. A pass rushing OLB. If you want to ignore all that, just to try and belittle others speculations that's your right, but it sounds a lot like you're twisting facts just to make others look bad. Not nearly as blatent as Ash trying to belittle others armed with nothing but his Madden ratings. I agree that we have switched up quite a bit, and our 3/4 was never conventional, but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing to a philosophical change on the way we attack the the line of scrimmage. Basically I'm thinking one gap with the ends goal of penatrating up field, and Davis roaming unimpeded to the ball carrier, with the outside backers responsible for contain on the edges. Even when we went with 4 down lineman we still played basically a 3/4 scheme. Now I think we will move towards a 4/3 philosophy, even when we have 4 lbs in there. Just speculation on my part, but not based only on one player drafted.[/QUOTE] Coples is 285... the best 3-4 DE in the NFL IMHO, Justin Smith, is 290. Sean Ellis was 285. People are being narrow minded in what defines a 5-tech. These guys were absolute beasts at the position and were not 300+

05-11-2012, 12:39 AM	#53
FijiJet waiting for our pass rush thunderbolt All League Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,433	[QUOTE=tzinc;4465546]if they go 4-3 they needed to draft a pass rushing dt[/QUOTE] And wait one more year? Disagree we got enough talent at DT to go ahead with the 4-3 on passing downs/extra wrinkles on D

05-11-2012, 01:16 AM	#54
Tackleem The phonetic spelling of how Phil Simms says 'tackle him" Practice Squad Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 306	Aaron Maybin as a 4-3 DE? Why is this popping up in the thread? Is there another 235-240 pound 4-3 end in the league? Maybe there is and I just can't think of him. I like the kid and hope he grows but his current skillset makes him a third down 3-4 pass rusher and nothing else. If we ran a pure 4-3 there simply wouldn't be a spot for him. Period. As for the 3-4/4-3 split, I agree we'll see more four man fronts this year, but I don't think it will be some kind of revolution. Coples is weird in that he's a "tweener" in a different sense -- between 3-4 DE (block absorber, edge sealer, run stuffer) and a 4-3 DE (kill the OT, get after the QB). So he can be versatile for us there. As Rex pointed out at his last presser, there is a reason our three-man front is written up like this: DE NT DT The two guys next to Pouha have never had the same role. One is more of a traditional tackle. The other is more of a traditional end. A comment on drafting for the 4-3 vs. 3-4. One isn't "easier" than the other, in general. The 3-4 was born as a way to make up for having a subpar linebacker squad. It evolved to take advantage of opportunities you don't get in the 4-3, like hiding blitzes and coverages. But if one were clearly better than the other, you wouldn't have the league so evenly split. In fact, college football is starting to use more 3-4s, as is the NFL (I think there are 11 or 12 3-4 teams). BUT the general rule of thumb is that competent (not elite) 3-4 ends are relatively easy to find and competent (not elite) 4-3 tackles are relatively easy to find. 3-4 nose tackles and 4-3 ends are much rarer. Lastly, the most interesting front to me is a 3-4 that puts Pace on Coples' side and Maybin on Wilkerson's side. Which side do you want to run to if you're the opposing offense? Which side should you assign your extra blitz protector to? That's right, you're screwed.

05-11-2012, 03:39 AM	#56
JB1089 Now is the time... All Pro Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 5,710	[QUOTE=Klecko;4465666]Do You mean that we will use the defense that has Spanked Tom Brady for 2 Super Bowls in last 4 Years? Christ why not?:mad:[/QUOTE] The 4-3 is an alignment, not a defensive philosophy. The Giants and Saints defenses both operate primarily from a 4-3 alignment, but couldn't be more different. The Saints blitz more often than any other team in the league while the Giants prefer rely on their front 4. When the Patriots were still primarily a 3-4 team, their defense had little in common with the 3-4's that were being run in Pittsburgh or Baltimore, two other 3-4's that were also different from one another. New England played a "read and react" defense, Pittsburgh is heavy on zone blitzes, and Baltimore blitzed with man coverage and a single high safety.

05-11-2012, 06:46 AM	#57
patman happy to be here All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7,152	The Jets are a 3/4 team. Harris is a great ILB against the run, but struggles in his drops. Scott is a good blitzer, but to ask him to play pass going backwards is looking for trouble. Davis played going forward vs a low level of comp, he has the speed but to expect him to read routes is asking a lot. Pace does not seem to have the skills to cover either. The question is not the dline, Couples, Maybin, Pace, Wilkenson are good enough laterally to play on the outside. Pace and Couples are also athletic enough to drop in to zone allowing a LB to blitz. Rex will flex to a 4-3 at times, but he did so last year also.

05-11-2012, 06:50 AM	#58
NY's stepchild Here's hoping that GS3 under center, and Coples on the edge works out. All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hawthorne NJ Posts: 4,709	[QUOTE=Woody56;4465436]Wilk is 315 If we ran a base 4-3 it would most likely be LE - Coples DT - Pouha DT - Wilkerson RE - Pace on run/ Maybin on pass SLB - Scott MLB - Harris WLB - Davis[/QUOTE] I was talking about Ellis. I'm hoping to pencil him in there instead of Pace, and I'm talking about the way they line up and their gap responsibilities instead of the number of linebackers we have.

05-11-2012, 07:03 AM	#59
NY's stepchild Here's hoping that GS3 under center, and Coples on the edge works out. All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hawthorne NJ Posts: 4,709	[QUOTE=patman;4465678]The Jets are a 3/4 team. Harris is a great ILB against the run, but struggles in his drops. Scott is a good blitzer, but to ask him to play pass going backwards is looking for trouble. Davis played going forward vs a low level of comp, he has the speed but to expect him to read routes is asking a lot. Pace does not seem to have the skills to cover either. The question is not the dline, Couples, Maybin, Pace, Wilkenson are good enough laterally to play on the outside. Pace and Couples are also athletic enough to drop in to zone allowing a LB to blitz. Rex will flex to a 4-3 at times, but he did so last year also.[/QUOTE] I think Davis plays inside in a 4/3. Roaming sideline to sideline hitting the open gap. I would love it if Maybin could play strong side, but that's just wishful thinking. I don't know if he can. You're right. I don't really know who would be good at the outside positions. It is a completely different philosophy, with different responsibilities, and skill set. Didn't Baltimore play 4/3. Where did Bart line up? I know he's not the player he was, but he may like the challenge of a new system, and I think he'll benefit the most from a new protege in Davis.

05-11-2012, 07:10 AM	#60
NY's stepchild Here's hoping that GS3 under center, and Coples on the edge works out. All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hawthorne NJ Posts: 4,709	[QUOTE=JB1089;4465668]The 4-3 is an alignment, not a defensive philosophy. The Giants and Saints defenses both operate primarily from a 4-3 alignment, but couldn't be more different. The Saints blitz more often than any other team in the league while the Giants prefer rely on their front 4. When the Patriots were still primarily a 3-4 team, their defense had little in common with the 3-4's that were being run in Pittsburgh or Baltimore, two other 3-4's that were also different from one another. New England played a "read and react" defense, Pittsburgh is heavy on zone blitzes, and Baltimore blitzed with man coverage and a single high safety.[/QUOTE] I think that's the problem. People are arguing about oranges and apples. It is a different philosophy. We're not talking about how many lbs you have, we're talking about switching from a two gap to a one gap. Pace and Thomas are lineman in a two gap and lbs in a one gap. I don't know what Harris is in a 2 gap. That's the problem. Maybe Strong side, but can he cover a TE? Can he knock him down? I'm not sure what he can do up tight. I know he can't play inside he's not fast or nimble enough to weave through all that traffic.