Where are all the Tebow Haters?!

[Ray Ray19]

[QUOTE=JStokes;4478003]And was 10th in the league with 32 dropped passes.

Yup, that throw to Holmes for a sure 1st down that slipped through his hands for an INT that led to a TD drive the other way is all on Sanchez.

_[/QUOTE]

Yep, and there were other reasons like this for the turnovers last year.

Breakdowns in pass protection, poor performance at the TE position in pass protection.

Players not buying into the offensive game plans and overall philosophy, this was perhaps the biggest reason.

Poor performances at the WR position, some due to lacking ability, players who did not perform up to expectation, or players who did not have much help around them due to players not performing up to expectation, or players who were young and still gaining experience.

The biggest fallacy the fan base has with regards to the offense last year, and especially with their critique of Sanchez, the WR position had a major overhaul last year. Edwards and Cotchery out, two key players in the rotation at the position. The Mason signing was a complete failure. Burress was never able to play up to expectations, he was virtually useless between the 20's, defenses were able to shift coverages and double on Holmes due to Burress not able to be effective enough to take away some of that pressure. Kerley was a rookie, it appears he will be a good solid player, but he was a rookie last year, so his performances were inconsistent, or wasn't used properly by the OC. Patrick Turner was our 4th WR where Brad Smith played that same role the year before.

This will be the 3rd year in a row Sanchez will again have to endure major changes at the position. Of course, fans won't be patient to allow for the transition to happen, Sanchez needs to be Peyton Manning right out of the gate. :rolleyes:

At least the team finally got it right, build the position through the draft and with youth, with a look towards stabalizing the position. Adding Schilens and Hill was done with a mindset for the future. Sanchez needs some stability at the position, he needs youth growth potential, players he can grow with. Holmes, Hill, Kerley is a step towards that direction. I hope to see players like White stick as well for depth, and Schilens emerge with some of the very good potential that was his label in Oakland. Maybe we get a surprise player that emerges too, Enron Riley? Terrance Ganaway? Does Patrick Turner get a bigger role this year? Turner is already a very good ST's player, he too is young, and has size, and can at least give what Burress gave us last year, maybe he improves this year too and solidifies that #5 or #6 WR slot on the roster.

[JStokes]

[QUOTE=Jet Nut;4478021]They jump at the chance to say don't blame the line but whine over his fumbles, which more often than not are a direct result of getting hit. Either behind the line due to poor protection or having no choice but to run downfield.[/QUOTE]

Hypocrisy is par for the pfail strip.

I'm sure they'll come back with "he holds the ball too long, that's why he gets hit, why he fumbles".

Which is a total crock of sh*t. Go look at the Ed Reed sack, the Ware sack, the Hali sack, the multitudes of whiffs Hunter let through the turnstiles.

Under 2 seconds all.

That's why he fumbled, not because he was holding the ball like a loaf of bread.

It's too funny how silly some Jet fans can be when they are trying to hide their agenda by "just being objective".

_

[JStokes]

[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4478031]Yep, and there were other reasons like this for the turnovers last year.

Breakdowns in pass protection, poor performance at the TE position in pass protection.

Players not buying into the offensive game plans and overall philosophy, this was perhaps the biggest reason.

Poor performances at the WR position, some due to lacking ability, players who did not perform up to expectation, or players who did not have much help around them due to players not performing up to expectation, or players who were young and still gaining experience.

The biggest fallacy the fan base has with regards to the offense last year, and especially with their critique of Sanchez, the WR position had a major overhaul last year. Edwards and Cotchery out, two key players in the rotation at the position. The Mason signing was a complete failure. Burress was never able to play up to expectations, he was virtually useless between the 20's, defenses were able to shift coverages and double on Holmes due to Burress not able to be effective enough to take away some of that pressure. Kerley was a rookie, it appears he will be a good solid player, but he was a rookie last year, so his performances were inconsistent, or wasn't used properly by the OC. Patrick Turner was our 4th WR where Brad Smith played that same role the year before.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like excuses Ray, Sanchez should have just picked up the whole team on his back AND tackled Cruz and Tebow.

That's what true leaders do--like Brees and Rogers and Manning (Eli and Peyton) did in their first 3 years in the league.

You can look it up.

_

[Rexipus Rex]

[QUOTE=Untouchable;4477983]3500-4000 yards passing, 25-30 TD's, 10-12 INT's, 60% completions

I'd be thrilled with that.[/QUOTE]

So basically something on par with or better than the true franchise QBs I mentioned? I think you're setting the bar a little too high IMO. Even if Sanchez performs well enough this year (and hypothetically beyond) to be our long-term QB, I don't think he sniffs the realm of Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Peyton. I know I asked you on the spot, but your expectations are a tad unrealistic. Here is some perspective...

[U]4th season stats[/U]

[B]Brady:[/B] 3620 yds, 23 TDs, 12 INTs, 60.2% comp

[B]Brees:[/B] 3159 yds, 27 TDs, 7 INTs, 65.5% comp

[B]Rodgers:[/B] 4038 yds, 28 TDs, 13 INTs, 63.6% comp

[B]Roethilsberger:[/B] 3154 yds, 32 TDs, 11 INTs, 65.3% comp

[B]Peyton:[/B] 4131 yds, 26 TDs, 23 INTs, 62.7% comp


The only stat that is continuously higher than your bar for Sanchez is completion percentage, and the two players closest to that are Brady and Manning.

I think your TD:INT ratio but more importantly your passing yards #s are way too unreasonable. On the above list of names, the two highest passer ratings are Brees and Roethlisberger, the two guys with the least amount of attempts an passing yards. Both guys played 15 games and barely averaged over 200 yards passing per game. And I think their offenses in those years more closely resemble the Jets 2012 offense than the other QB's offenses. I saw JB raise a good point last week or so about how as much as we'd all want to see it, we're not really going to see a 4,000 yard passer in a Rex coached team even if that QB is a solid performer.

IMO, a sufficiently "improved" Sanchez would put up 2012 stats similar to this:

3335 yds, 23 TDs, 13 INTs, 58.5%

That roughly puts him at an 84 QB rating.

I just don't think he'll have enough passing attempts to really get in that 3500-4000 bracket. I doubt he'll be attempting 500+ like he did the last two years. Between the commitment back to the run game, packages for Tebow, etc., my guess is that he'll be closer to 480.

[Ray Ray19]

[QUOTE=JStokes;4478038]Sounds like excuses Ray, Sanchez should have just picked up the whole team on his back AND tackled Cruz and Tebow.

That's what true leaders do--like Brees and Rogers and Manning (Eli and Peyton) did in their first 3 years in the league.

You can look it up.

_[/QUOTE]

It will be interesting to watch Peyton Manning's transition in Denver. Sure, he is a future HOF'er, but it's a new team, new offense, young WR's, there will definitely be a transition. What will probably help them, is that they have an experienced and talented ground attack, and the mere fact Peyton is the QB, that will make the running game that much more effective.

But the passing game will be a work in progress, as the young WR's develop, and also develop chemistry with Manning. Manning has always said his familiarity with his WR's was a huge deal for him, Manning is obsessed with practice reps, and is a perfectionist. His WR's need to be where they are supposed to be, and Manning won't have that security blanket early on in Denver as he had in Indy.

[Ryan's Revenge]

[QUOTE=Mogglez;4477987]What THE HELL are you talking about???? He sat behind a future HOF'r his first three years and lit it up in his first full year as starter. You can't really be this clueless can you?
:eek:[/QUOTE]

Actually, what he is talking about is Arron Rodgers DID suck for a while, in fact he was almost traded to the Raiders for Randy Moss..

There was an actual special or something of the sort about Rodgers, but this is pretty common knowledge.. Rodgers was not your *prototypical Cinderella story* of star QB waiting in the wings.

He broke his foot in a game against the Pats in year two..and it was rumored he was done.
It might be fun to jump on Demonthenes but you might want to check it out first before you do.

Of course, you might have a different opinion than Rodgers, but he himself thought he was done. He was supposed to go 1st in the draft and he slipped to 24 or 25 or something like that...

[Demosthenes9]

[QUOTE=Jet Nut;4477845]Yes, they would tell you that.

In your world essentially means the same as is? Or that he didnt gain anything from being in his 2nd year?

You realize that is as dumb as it gets, that no matter what you had a year to learn your playbook, a year to get used to the grind and rigor of NFL football, a year of practice with players on the squad.

With all of those things Tebow gained nothing?

That would be a black mark in anyones book.

And Rodgers didn't become a starter until year 4. Not getting where you're going here.[/QUOTE]


Sure, one whole year in the NFL will teach you some things such as how practices are conducted, the playbook, yada, yada, yada. What it doesn't teach you is the actual speed of the game. Or the looks that the QB will see when he's actually standing behind the center. Or how the field will look when he rolls to his left or his right.

Those are things that you learn from actually being on the field and experiencing it first hand, in game situations. It's one of the reasons why QBs usually aren't judged by how many seasons they have been in the NFL, but rather, how much time they have actually spent on the field.

For example, many people around here cite the fact that Sanchez was very inexperienced as he only had 16 starts in college. Funny, they don't talk about how many games he was suited up for in total. You know, sitting on the bench, riding the pine, carrying the clipboard, what have you. Nope, they say "He only started 16 games in college".

Not so strangely, I agree with them. 16 actual starts in college is NOT much experience, even if a guy rode the bench for 2 or 3 years. The learning experience isn't even close to the same.

As for Rodgers, after his first year of riding the bench, he sucked. After his second year of riding the bench, he still sucked. It wasn't until his third year as a backup that he actually started showing some real promise.

[Ryan's Revenge]

[QUOTE=Fishooked;4477849]
Tebow was the exact opposite. [/quote]

Tebow hit the NFL with pretty much half the football fans already lined up to hate him..

Oh yes, that is fact, it still is.

First, there were the literally MILLIONS of people who lost MILLIONS of dollars on the Ohia- Florida game, including my boss at the time, and half the employees where I worked then..I cleaned em out sweet..
Then there were the losers of the SEC championship where number one Alabama was supposed to clean the Gators clock , and another million people became Tebow haters.
Then came the Florida Oklahoma game, where the Gators were supposed to lose to Sam Bradford, and then there was the Cinn. Bearcats who almost had 500 yards passing and one or two rushing TDs from Tebow to send them into Sugar Bowl loser history..


So LOOOONGGGGGG before Tebow was drafted the rhetoric was so deep about his elongated motion and his whiteness, (there was a comment from one player that Tim's draft party looked like a KKK meeting.. LOL)

Regardless,

Demo is right about a lot of stuff, but the Tebow hate is so thick around here, for private reasons great and small..

Some people hate the back up QB because they are afraid of him.
They are afraid he will steal the job from the other QB..even if the other QB sucks.. BUT you can't say that if you registered after MAR '12

Some people who call themselves JETS fans hate Tim Tebow because he ran a TD against the Jets last year.

I am just glad that the actual New York Jets, and the coaching staff are bigger than that, smarter than that..and know football better than that.

I am pretty sure Tebow is a kick ass player, probably be a hell of a QB for the JETS..as long as the fans don't eat his ass alive before he gets to play.

[Demosthenes9]

[QUOTE=Mogglez;4477987]What THE HELL are you talking about???? He sat behind a future HOF'r his first three years and lit it up in his first full year as starter. You can't really be this clueless can you?
:eek:[/QUOTE]

Go back and do some reading about Rodgers' first 2 years. Even if not for Favre, he wouldn't have been starting because he sucked. It was to the point where Green Bay actually considered cutting him or drafting other QBs to replace him.

After you actually do some investigating instead of just shooting your mouth off, then you can figure out who the clueless one is :)

[Ryan's Revenge]

[QUOTE=Demosthenes9;4478054]Sure, one whole year in the NFL will teach you some things such as how practices are conducted, the playbook, yada, yada, yada. What it doesn't teach you is the actual speed of the game. Or the looks that the QB will see when he's actually standing behind the center. Or how the field will look when he rolls to his left or his right.

Those are things that you learn from actually being on the field and experiencing it first hand, in game situations. It's one of the reasons why QBs usually aren't judged by how many seasons they have been in the NFL, but rather, how much time they have actually spent on the field.

For example, many people around here cite the fact that Sanchez was very inexperienced as he only had 16 starts in college. Funny, they don't talk about how many games he was suited up for in total. You know, sitting on the bench, riding the pine, carrying the clipboard, what have you. Nope, they say "He only started 16 games in college".

Not so strangely, I agree with them. 16 actual starts in college is NOT much experience, even if a guy rode the bench for 2 or 3 years. The learning experience isn't even close to the same.

As for Rodgers, after his first year of riding the bench, he sucked. After his second year of riding the bench, he still sucked. It wasn't until his third year as a backup that he actually started showing some real promise.[/QUOTE]

thought I would jump in here and say the primary benefit of first team practice is throwing against first team corners and so on.. I am sure you both knew that.. I was just reading an article on Manning and he was discussing being "glad to work with first team (Bailey..) defense"

It makes all the difference.

[Demosthenes9]

[QUOTE=Jet Nut;4477840]Give up, you're embarrassing yourself.[/quote]

Really ? Because you disagree with me ? Pffft.


[QUOTE]Almost all of you posts are in Tebow QB related threads.
[/QUOTE]

Duh, as I said, Tebow threads are where arguments occur, which would lead to more responses. Hell, it seems like I'm up to 10 responses to you alone in this one thread. Think that might skew stats just a bit ?

[QUOTE]And yes, most QBs, all but a handful struggle. Dors not therefore mean that all QBs who struggle will go on to become elite.
[/QUOTE]

You are absolutely right about that.


[QUOTE]You somehow missed that most who suck in their first two seasons usually go on to suck their entire career.
[/QUOTE]

Couple of points. When you say "first two seasons" here you talking about their first 2 in the league ? Or first 2 as an actual starter ? Secondly, not sure if I'd say that MOST of them usually go on to suck, but certainly, at least a fair number of them do.



[QUOTE]What you also missed is that someone like Elway, threw a great pass, looked like he would develop into a real QB.
[/QUOTE]

For you to say that, I'd have to presume that you aren't old enough to have watched Elway's first season as an NFL QB. That first season, Elway was one of the most erratic passers that the game has ever seen. Sure, AT TIMES, he'd throw passes that would just leave you awestruck. I'm talking about passes that just weren't possible. Other times, his passes were in the dirt, or otherwise all over the place, except for anywhere close to his receivers.


[quote]
Tebow looks like a QB that you put on ST's and use for gimmick plays. When someone dumps you like the Brons did and the team that traded for you says you aren't their QB, you should take notice.[/QUOTE]

You mean kind of how Steve Young got dumped by the Bucs and ended up as a backup in San Fran ??

[Demosthenes9]

[QUOTE=Fishooked;4477849]That's not the same at all.
Chrebet was a walkon UDFA that didn't stand a chance to make it in the pros. coming from a ****ty little Garfield NJ town and played for a small local college.

Tebow was the exact opposite.


Your type of football fannery is a joke.

However, the NY Jets will eventually make you hate football, and thus, eventually Tebow too.

You'll see.

Now GFY[/QUOTE]

Why in the hell would that "difference" matter ?? The point remains that some people become fans of a specific team because of a specific player.

Now, you GFY.

[Demosthenes9]

[QUOTE=JStokes;4477856]Yeah, Mother-in-laws are universally loved, they're never the butt of jokes, just like lawyers and politicians are loved.

Btw, I have 2 Mother-in-laws and I like both of them-- and I don't even have a wife anymore.

It was a joke.

Just like all those experts that think Tebow's f*cked up delivery can be fixed. All one of them.

Give it up dude, you're transparency is embarrassing.

What am I talking about --I LOVE TEBOW--he's the MAN!! I think his looping delivery is the bestest, it give his receivers that extra split second to get open. I hope he never fixes it.

TEBOW= The next 5 SBs for the Jets!!!


_[/QUOTE]


So let me see if I have this straight. You make the asinine statement that "that [SIZE="4"][B]every expert[/B][/SIZE] has opined it would be impossible to fix".

I then took the two seconds to demonstrate that you were talking out your ass by quoting an acknowledged expert who said that Tebow's mechanics could be fixed.

And you want to say that I'm embarrassing ?


Bwahahahahahahahaha, now that's funny. Truly, it is. Thanks for the laugh Counselor.

[BigJet85]

[QUOTE=Shark99;4477460]Come out now let us here it. He threw 2 INT's and now what?!

C'mon Stephen A. Smith let's here your big mouth blast Tebow and how he can't throw and how it was a horrible trade.

I'm ready...hammer me...I'm going to defend Tebow.

Let the discussion begin...gentlemen and ladies.[/QUOTE]

F Tebow...Sanchez is going to Step up big time and Tebow is going to be strictly situational...Sanchez will be the guy to bring us where we need to go. Sanchez seem more confident and ready to get after it....:yes:

[DaBallhawk]

[QUOTE=jetrider;4477810]BAH.

Listen, months after Tebow was drafted my plane stopped in Denver.

Strangely, the gift shop racks at the airport were already stuffed with Tebow jerseys, hats, tees, you name it.

No Orton, Bailey, Dawkins, or anybody else. Tebow got all the love for doing absolutely NOTHING. Never played a down in the NFL.

His jersey remained the top-seller that year, and finished second last year behind Rodgers.

Yeah, the world is against Tim Tebow.[/QUOTE]

what does that have anything to do with the entire nfl and every fan base hating on him and trashing him every single day? you act like selling a couple thousand jerseys makes up for 200 million people trashing you :rolleyes:

[Mogglez]

[QUOTE=Ryan's Revenge;4478051]Actually, what he is talking about is Arron Rodgers DID suck for a while, in fact he was almost traded to the Raiders for Randy Moss..

There was an actual special or something of the sort about Rodgers, but this is pretty common knowledge.. Rodgers was not your *prototypical Cinderella story* of star QB waiting in the wings.

He broke his foot in a game against the Pats in year two..and it was rumored he was done.
It might be fun to jump on Demonthenes but you might want to check it out first before you do.

Of course, you might have a different opinion than Rodgers, but he himself thought he was done. He was supposed to go 1st in the draft and he slipped to 24 or 25 or something like that...[/QUOTE]

I remember that rumor, but if I remember correctly, the Raiders were asking for a first, Favre had already informed the team he would be back for 2007 and was personally lobbying for the Moss deal to get done. The Packers weren't willing to shell out a first but offered Rodgers straight up (although it was rumored they were willing to to also part with a 4th) knowing that the Raiders desperately needed a QB. The Packers felt that Rodgers was a good enough prospect to get the deal done, but in the end the trade never got done, the Raiders selected Jamarcus Russell No.1 overall, and Moss was shipped off to NE.

I've never seen any special on Rodgers, but if thats all true then almost being traded because of an injury is still completely different than being traded because you suck. There was barely any body of work to go by (5 games & 0 starts) so thats BS.

[QUOTE]
Originally Posted by [B]Demosthenes9 [/B]
Go back and do some reading about Rodgers' first 2 years. Even if not for Favre, he wouldn't have been starting because he sucked. It was to the point where Green Bay actually considered cutting him or drafting other QBs to replace him.

After you actually do some investigating instead of just shooting your mouth off, then you can figure out who the clueless one is
[/QUOTE]

Like I stated above, if what RR said is true than almost being traded because of an injury is completely different than being traded because you suck. Rodgers was taken in the first round and prior to the 2007 season he had played in 5 games, and had zero starts meaning there was literally no body of work to say that he sucked, so that's utter nonsense. If the Packers really felt that Rodgers wasn't the guy to lead their franchise, then they would have traded him for peanuts and drafted another guy to take over when Favre left. Instead they handed him the team in 2008 (I don't even think there was a competition) and he never looked back.

[Ryan's Revenge]

[QUOTE=Mogglez;4478077]I remember that rumor, but if I remember correctly, the Raiders were asking for a first, Favre had already informed the team he would be back for 2007 and was personally lobbying for the Moss deal to get done. The Packers weren't willing to shell out a first but offered Rodgers straight up (although it was rumored they were willing to to also part with a 4th) knowing that the Raiders desperately needed a QB. The Packers felt that Rodgers was a good enough prospect to get the deal done, but in the end the trade never got done, the Raiders selected Jamarcus Russell No.1 overall, and Moss was shipped off to NE.

I've never seen any special on Rodgers, but if thats all true then almost being traded because of an injury is still completely different than being traded because you suck. There was barely any body of work to go by (5 games & 0 starts) so thats BS.



Like I stated above, if what RR said is true than almost being traded because of an injury is completely different than being traded because you suck. Rodgers was taken in the first round and prior to the 2007 season he had played in 5 games, and had zero starts meaning there was literally no body of work to say that he sucked, so that's utter nonsense. If the Packers really felt that Rodgers wasn't the guy to lead their franchise, then they would have traded him for peanuts and drafted another guy to take over when Favre left. Instead they handed him the team in 2008 (I don't even think there was a competition) and he never looked back.[/QUOTE]


Not sure if the injury predicated him being on the trading block , but I don't think that is the case at all..and the Pack keeping him kind of points to that too.. He was in a slump..and from what I recall the *special* (which was really just Rodgers talking about himself) saying he seemed to have the pits from not being a star..bla bla..so in the offseason, he re made himself, and it has been katy bar the door ever since.

Most players suck before they are any good.. only the really good ones are born excellent, but they NEVER make it in the NFL.

[Shark99]

[QUOTE=Jordy;4477503]I like all turtles. The ones from india are especially cool.[/QUOTE]

Jordy you can eat turtle soup while the rest of us eat while the rest of us eat a Tebow parmigiana sandwich

[Shark99]

[QUOTE=Jordy;4477463]DUMP. LOCK. BAN (AGAIN).[/QUOTE]

The only thing we have in common is we are jets fans. Your a hater of Tebow and I and bring a negative vibe to all my threads

[sg3]

I googled up this Tom Martinez expert

says he was a mentor to Brady

says he was a mentor to Jamarcus Russell

says he can't be saying much or doing much about fixing the impossibly awful mechanics of your adored Timmy since he died in February