Top 10 Quarterbacks right now ?

[ASG0531]

[QUOTE=jetrider;4482700]One AFCC appearance in 8 years is better than two AFCCs in 3 years.

Got it.

That makes Rivers light years above Sanchez. LOL.

Go eat some more tub sealer, Dilweed.[/QUOTE]


You're right, my bad. Sanchez is a playoff god. You know what? If he completes zero passes next season and goes 0-16, he'll still have made 2 AFCCGs in 4 years! That sounds pretty impressive. And if he goes 0-16 the year after, he'll have made 2 conference championships in 5 years. Still pretty damn good. And if he goes 0-16 the year after that...

Sanchez will have to miss the playoffs for the next 13 seasons just to even fall as low in the QB ranking scale as Rivers.

[w0mbat]

[QUOTE=jetrider;4482696]Way to present an argument and back it with nothing but a personal attack, fuktard.

[/QUOTE]

Honestly no point in wasting my time. Anyone who would thinks Sanchez comes even close to the caliber of QB Rivers is, is either the biggest Jets homer in the world or doesn't even have even an elementary knowledge of football.

[jetrider]

[QUOTE=DDNYjets;4482679]What qualifies them is that every one of those QBs is better than Sanchez.

Schaub - Just go look at his numbers.

Palmer - At one point was a Top 5 QB.

Cutler - Does more with less. You think Sanchez takes a beating?

Rivers - Are you kidding me.[/QUOTE]

Where are your numbers "00"?

Thought so.

[b]Schaub[/b] - 9-year vet; claim to fame: one 9-7 season. No playoffs. Had his best run on his eighth year. Exactly what Jets fans look for.

That blows away anything Sanchez has done. If you drink hard enough.

[b]Palmer[/b] - 10-year vet; claim to fame: only two above .500 seasons and two Wildcard losses. Incredible.

Clearly superior to Sanchez. Tolerant Jets fans would've [i]loved[/i] to have him.

[b]Cutler[/b] - 7-year vet; claim to fame: one AFCC appearance and three complete .500-or-worse seasons.

Ranks him easily above Sanchez. Got it. Silly me.

[b]Rivers[/b] - 9-year vet; claim to fame; one AFCC in '07 and two Divisional chokes. Those numbers alone rank him well above Sanchez (sarcasm}. If you throw out all the bad stuff.

Rivers trademarked the pick-6 and botched snap.

More pain for the buck means extra love from Jets fans - who spend more time picking Oreo trace from their Madden controllers than watching him play.


_

[jetrider]

[QUOTE=w0mbat;4482710]Honestly no point in wasting my time. [/QUOTE]

Agreed. The only logical thing you said.

You waste everyone's time with every post you write.

Go back to your PS3.

[DDNYjets]

jet(d!ck)rider, is Sanchez better than Dan Marino or Dan Fouts or Archie Manning?

[southparkcpa]

[QUOTE=DDNYjets;4482730]jet(d!ck)rider, is Sanchez better than Dan Marino or Dan Fouts or Archie Manning?[/QUOTE]

All due respect...I would take Mark over Schaub and Palmer.

[DDNYjets]

[QUOTE=southparkcpa;4482733]All due respect...I would take Mark over Schaub and Palmer.[/QUOTE]

This guy knows how to disagree with someone.

Fair enough.

[jetrider]

[QUOTE=southparkcpa;4482733]All due respect...I would take Mark over Schaub and Palmer.[/QUOTE]

Who are the ten QBs that make your Top 10?

List them in random order if you want.

[southparkcpa]

[QUOTE=jetrider;4482755]Who are the ten QBs that make your Top 10?

List them in random order if you want.[/QUOTE]

Why? My opinion is just that......

[w0mbat]

[QUOTE=jetrider;4482721]Where are your numbers "00"?

Thought so.

[b]Schaub[/b] - 9-year vet; claim to fame: one 9-7 season. No playoffs. Had his best run on his eighth year. Exactly what Jets fans look for.

That blows away anything Sanchez has done. If you drink hard enough.

[b]Palmer[/b] - 10-year vet; claim to fame: only two above .500 seasons and two Wildcard losses. Incredible.

Clearly superior to Sanchez. Tolerant Jets fans would've [i]loved[/i] to have him.

[b]Cutler[/b] - 7-year vet; claim to fame: one AFCC appearance and three complete .500-or-worse seasons.

Ranks him easily above Sanchez. Got it. Silly me.

[b]Rivers[/b] - 9-year vet; claim to fame; one AFCC in '07 and two Divisional chokes. Those numbers alone rank him well above Sanchez. If you throw out all the bad stuff.

Rivers trademarked the pick-6 and botched snap.

More pain for the buck means extra love from Jets fans - who spend more time picking Oreo trace from their Madden controllers than watching him play.[/QUOTE]

Rex Grossman and Trent Dilfer took their team to the Superbowl which is something none of these QB's nor Sanchez has ever done. Are they better than any QB on this list?

Joe Flacco has made as many AFC championship games as Sanchez and has also never missed the playoffs in his career. Is he better than Sanchez?

By your dogmatic criteria of only counting a team stat (playoff wins) to determine who is the best QB, then Sanchez (along with Rivers, Cutler, Palmer and Schaub) is clearly worse than Dilfer, Grossman, and Flacco as well, correct?

You can't have it both ways. It should be interesting to see you create qualifiers and do backflips on why the playoff success of Dilfer, Grossman, and Flacco doesn;t count, but Sanchez's playoff record means something.


Using team success to solely determine who the better player is, is truly absurd. A 10 year old could have a more nuanced look.

By this logic Tramon Williams is better than Revis ( he won a Super Bowl while Revis has never even been to one)

Shonn Greene is better than Adrian Petersen (Greene has been to two conference championship games while Petersen has only been to one)

and Deion Branch is miles ahead of Calvin Johnson (Branch has been to multiple Sb's wile Johnson has yet to win a single playoff game)

[jetrider]

[QUOTE=w0mbat;4482763]Rex Grossman and Trent Dilfer took their team to the Superbowl which is something none of these QB's nor Sanchez has ever done. Are they better than any QB on this list?

Joe Flacco has made as many AFC championship games as Sanchez and has also never missed the playoffs in his career. Is he better than Sanchez?

By your dogmatic criteria of only counting a team stat (playoff wins) to determine who is the best QB, then Sanchez (along with Rivers, Cutler, Palmer and Schaub) is clearly worse than Dilfer, Grossman, and Flacco as well, correct?

You can't have it both ways. It should be interesting to see you create qualifiers and do backflips on why the playoff success of Dilfer, Grossman, and Flacco doesn;t count, but Sanchez's playoff record means something.
[/QUOTE]

Flacco is among the difficult to rank. He's hot and cold. And young.

I gave Sanchez the edge because I have more confidence in him. That's all.

Also, I blame Sanchez's struggles last year on the OL 100%.

Dilfer doesn't play anymore, in case you didn't know.

Grossman is like Dilfer in that the bad outweighed the good to the point where he can't secure a starting job (after 9 years).

Sanchez has only 3 complete seasons and the good outweighs the bad.

If after 6 or 7 years he gravitates at mediocrity, like Cutler and Rivers, I'll be the first to admit it.

[JB1089]

I'm fine with using "winning" when the numbers are close between two guys. But when one guy has a massive numbers edge over the other, non-Super Bowl playoff runs don't enter into the equation.

In 2005, Brady's 3 Super Bowls elevated him to the Peyton Manning level even though Manning had significantly better numbers at that point. Since then, Brady's numbers have improved to the point that they can stand on their own and Peyton has won a Super Bowl of his own. And for the people that think Peyton isn't a good playoff QB, his career playoff passer rating of 88.4 is better than Brady's career rating of 87.8. The Patriots had a great defense every year that they won the Super Bowl (6th, 1st, and 2nd in points allowed). Last year was the first time since 2005 that they weren't in the top 8 in points allowed.

Quarterbacks don't win or lose anything by themselves, and that's why I don't like to use wins for anything other than tiebreakers. When you talk about conference championship games, or even Super Bowls, all you're really doing is telling me who plays for the better team.


Matt Schaub passer ratings over the last 4 years have been 92.7, 98.6, 92.0, and 96.8. And he averages 8 ypa, so I don't know how anyone can call him a game manager.

That's so far beyond where Sanchez is right now, the playoff stuff doesn't come into the equation.

[JB1089]

[QUOTE=jetrider;4482778]Flacco is among the difficult to rank. He's hot and cold. And young.

I gave Sanchez the edge because I have more confidence in him. That's all.

Also, I blame Sanchez's struggles last year on the OL 100%.

Dilfer doesn't play anymore, in case you didn't know.

Grossman is like Dilfer in that the bad outweighed the good to the point where he can't secure a starting job (after 9 years).

Sanchez has only 3 complete seasons and the good outweighs the bad.

If after 6 or 7 years he gravitates at mediocrity, like Cutler and[B] Rivers[/B], I'll be the first to admit it.[/QUOTE]

Rivers is mediocre?

How many quarterbacks in the history of the NFL have strung together 3 consecutive 100+ passer rating seasons?

Steve Young, Peyton Manning, Philip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers.

2008-2010: 105.5, 104.4, and 101.8. He led the league in ypa each of those years.

When people talk about Rivers' disappointing season last year. It was disappointing by his standards. It was still significantly better than Sanchez's best year.

[JB1089]

Reading some of the ridiculous posts in this thread, once again, I'm more than a little curious about how much non-Jets football people watch.

[southparkcpa]

[QUOTE=JB1089;4482783]Rivers is mediocre?

How many quarterbacks in the history of the NFL have strung together 3 consecutive 100+ passer rating seasons?

Steve Young, Peyton Manning, Philip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers.

2008-2010: 105.5, 104.4, and 101.8. He led the league in ypa each of those years.

When people talk about Rivers' disappointing season last year. It was disappointing by his standards. It was still significantly better than Sanchez's best year.[/QUOTE]

Rivers is a STUD, no question. OT...he gave the commencement address at NC State this year.

[jetrider]

[QUOTE=JB1089;4482787]Reading some of the ridiculous posts in this thread, once again, I'm more than a little curious about how much non-Jets football people watch.[/QUOTE]


Me too, especially after reading your comments:

1. passer rating is everything

2. Rivers' numerous game-choking turnovers are more acceptable than Sanchez's

Left unsaid, you rank Sanchez between 14-17 but can't produce the list ahead of him. Or any list.

Yeah, you really got your facts sorted and watch a lot of football. LOL

[w0mbat]

[QUOTE=JB1089;4482779]I'm fine with using "winning" when the numbers are close between two guys. But when one guy has a massive numbers edge over the other, non-Super Bowl playoff runs don't enter into the equation.

In 2005, Brady's 3 Super Bowls elevated him to the Peyton Manning level even though Manning had significantly better numbers at that point. Since then, Brady's numbers have improved to the point that they can stand on their own and Peyton has won a Super Bowl of his own. And for the people that think Peyton isn't a good playoff QB, his career playoff passer rating of 88.4 is better than Brady's career rating of 87.8. The Patriots had a great defense every year that they won the Super Bowl (6th, 1st, and 2nd in points allowed). Last year was the first time since 2005 that they weren't in the top 8 in points allowed.

Quarterbacks don't win or lose anything by themselves, and that's why I don't like to use wins for anything other than tiebreakers. When you talk about conference championship games, or even Super Bowls, all you're really doing is telling me who plays for the better team.


Matt Schaub passer ratings over the last 4 years have been 92.7, 98.6, 92.0, and 96.8. And he averages 8 ypa, so I don't know how anyone can call him a game manager.

That's so far beyond where Sanchez is right now, the playoff stuff doesn't come into the equation.[/QUOTE]

Pretty much agreed with everything you said in this post.

[Ray Ray19]

[QUOTE=jetrider;4482721]Where are your numbers "00"?

Thought so.

[b]Schaub[/b] - 9-year vet; claim to fame: one 9-7 season. No playoffs. Had his best run on his eighth year. Exactly what Jets fans look for.

That blows away anything Sanchez has done. If you drink hard enough.

[b]Palmer[/b] - 10-year vet; claim to fame: only two above .500 seasons and two Wildcard losses. Incredible.

Clearly superior to Sanchez. Tolerant Jets fans would've [i]loved[/i] to have him.

[b]Cutler[/b] - 7-year vet; claim to fame: one AFCC appearance and three complete .500-or-worse seasons.

Ranks him easily above Sanchez. Got it. Silly me.

[b]Rivers[/b] - 9-year vet; claim to fame; one AFCC in '07 and two Divisional chokes. Those numbers alone rank him well above Sanchez (sarcasm}. If you throw out all the bad stuff.

Rivers trademarked the pick-6 and botched snap.

More pain for the buck means extra love from Jets fans - who spend more time picking Oreo trace from their Madden controllers than watching him play.


_[/QUOTE]

Great post.

[Ray Ray19]

[QUOTE=Raider9175;4482469][B]The only worry I had when raiders made the trade was C Palmer arm strength and how healthy was that arm. C Palmer proved last year his arm is 100% healthy(That all I had to see). He was the best deep passer in the Nfl last year. Show me one article from last year where anyone question his arm.[/B]

HE threw for the fifth(actual sixth) most yards in Cincinnati in 2010 in the NFL that with a very old WR corp( T Owens, Chad Ochocinco, and Houyourmomma) . Now you put C Palmer behind the best rushing attack and the fastest wr corp in the game and your talking ridiculous average per pass(was 8.4 last year (Sanchez was 6.6). That only going way up with return of DMC. Dmc Taiwan Jones , M Goodson, and FB Marcel reece will also be big receiving threats in this version of WCO offense.(you know what Yac your talking about with very safe passes.

There is no question what so ever about this Raider offense. It that good. The defense is the only thing that is a question mark. Has any player won comeback player and league MVP in the same season.

Btw Only thing you can criticize Palmer last year was the interceptions. Eli manning threw 25 in 2010. How many did he throw in 2011. again a lot safer passes to the backs and Te and that number goes well down.[/QUOTE]

Dear Lord you are a pathetic homer. If Palmer wasn't on the Raiders, he would never be in your discussions.

[JB1089]

[QUOTE=jetrider;4482810]Me too, especially after reading your comments:

1. passer rating is everything

2. Rivers' numerous game-choking turnovers are more acceptable than Sanchez's

Left unsaid, you rank Sanchez between 14-17 but can't produce the list ahead of him. Or any list.

Yeah, you really got your facts sorted and watch a lot of football. LOL[/QUOTE]


Passer rating and yards per attempt are the two best measures of QB performance. Yes.

In my opinion, the only thing that skews passer rating is goalline playcalling. That's it. There are teams that are pass heavy inside the 5 yard line, and that inflates the number of passing touchdowns, which skews a QB's passing rating higher than it should be. That's what happened with Sanchez last year.

Conversely, there are teams that are run heavy inside the 5, which depresses a QB's passing TDs and their passer rating. This is what happened to Schaub when Arian Foster ran for 16 TDs. It's also happened to Brees in San Diego with Tomlinson, and Hasselbeck in Seattle with Alexander.


90% of the people that complain about passer rating don't even understand how it's calculated. I like it because it's an efficiency metric. Gross totals don't matter, everything is based on per attempt: completions per attempt, yards per attempt, touchdowns per attempt, interceptions per attempt.


Can it be used in vacuum? Of course not. What metric can?

This is what I do:

1) Passer rating
2) Team red zone performance (to reveal any distortion from playcalling)
3) 3rd down performance

4) Sack rate and INT rate.

You have to look at them in tandem. Aaron Rodgers was criticized for holding the ball too long during his 2nd year as a starter. I thought that was garbage. His INT rate was an absurdly low 1.3%. Last I checked, sacks were preferable to INTs. Brees gets rid of the ball really quickly, and it's probably one of the reasons for his high INT rate (relatively speaking of course, I'm comparing him to Brady and Rodgers).

Then you have a guy like Roethlisberger. He takes a lot sacks, but plays behind a constantly injury ravaged O-line. Still, most of his sacks seems to come outside of the pocket. Sometimes pressure flushes him out, but often times he's just trying to buy more time from his receivers. It results in a big play as often as it does a sack, and he keeps his INT-rate in line with the league average.

Thinking about it now, I guess that you should throw fumbles into this equation too. It's really about the whole picture of avoiding sacks vs. avoiding turnovers.

5) Surrounding Offensive Talent

I make little adjustments in my head for the quality of O-line and receivers. I don't have an actual way of quantitatively factoring this in, so I use it as more of a tiebreaker or to bump a guy up or down a slot or two. Cutler gets a little bump because of how terrible the Bears O-line has been, for example.