Can we talk about both, instead of either\or? - Page 2 - Jets Insider.com Forums

ASG0531 · 06-02-2012, 12:10 PM

[QUOTE=DDNYjets;4482520]LOL. I wish I actually read the OP, I would have found that gem.

What if we put McElroy on the field as well. That would be a total mind **** for the defense. I think McElroy could take the snap, hand it to Tebow - who runs to the LOS - and Tebow flips it back to Sanchez, who puts the ball behind his back for Tone to take on a reverse.

UNSTOPPABLE.[/QUOTE]

It kind of boggles my mind that people hate on Schotty for all his offensive complexity and yet root for this kind of stuff and Sparano's approach toward a more simplistic offense, all in the same breath. (I know you're being sarcastic, I'm on your side, fwiw).

jetrider · 06-02-2012, 01:05 PM

[QUOTE=ASG0531;4482601]It kind of boggles my mind that people hate on Schotty for all his offensive complexity and yet root for this kind of stuff and Sparano's approach toward a more simplistic offense, all in the same breath. (I know you're being sarcastic, I'm on your side, fwiw).[/QUOTE]

If you follow 00NYjets' posts you'll notice he talks from both sides of his mouth.

Sparano's simplicity is mainly in the verbiage, the language, and not so much in the architecture of the plays.

lageman4ever · 06-02-2012, 02:13 PM

two QB = no QB

DDNYjets · 06-02-2012, 02:14 PM

[QUOTE=jetrider;4482625]If you follow 00NYjets' posts you'll notice he talks from both sides of his mouth.
[/QUOTE]

I have learned well from Tannenbaum.

BTW, the "00" is a nice touch. :D

GreenGeek · 06-02-2012, 05:31 PM

I see both QBs on the field as a real option. Even the standard wildcat puts the main qb in the huddle, having him line up as a WR once the huddle breaks. Tebow is a valid threat running the ball. Line him up as RB and throw him the occasional direct snap. Creates uncertainty (hesitation) on D without going pop warner...

I hope Sparano sees Tebow as yet another weapon and not merely someone who is either clipboard-carrier or pop-warner-hits-the-pros. I actually EXPECT creativity w/o insanity. Slly me...

JetsNeedNewton · 06-02-2012, 05:53 PM

[QUOTE=Limolady;4482530]I'm just wondering what ever gave you the idea that anyone was lying? Do you seriously give any validation to what the media spins and conspiracy theory fans have to say?

The best collaboration of football talent is currently being assembled, evaluated and tested to see what works. Sparano was the missing piece of the pyramid and I have no doubt he's got gadget plays that's going to involve three QB's on the field. Wrap your Xs & Os around that.

(-;[/QUOTE]

You misunderstood, I don't think they are lying. I'm saying that everyone who argues it is going to be either Sanchez OR Tebow has to assume Rex, Tanny et al are lying... because everything they are saying is to the contrary. I'm optimistic that it's not an inevitable battle for #1 QB and that there will be lot's of ways they will work together. The team has stated a gazillion times there will be lots of innovative ways Tebow and the team will work together. Ok, don't like my approach fine, I said it was the more outlandish.

But then what ways? We know all the "it has to be one or the other" arguments to the point of tears. But I've really seen little speculation outside of personal protector on STs on how their talents could be best utilized in tandem. The wise asses have had thier say, and obviously don't have a clue what the potential Rex, Tanny, Sparano and the rest of the team see is.

It's a very simple premise: Assume these guys are honestly going to work together to get us to a Superbowl, you are the HC or OC (I know that's a stretch since no one on this board ever thinks they are smarter than the coaches,) how do you derive the maximum synergy from these diverse talents?

Just seems like it would be a refreshing break from the fanatics and media to have a positive discussion on the possibilities...

Jordy · 06-02-2012, 06:01 PM

[QUOTE=DDNYjets;4482520]LOL. I wish I actually read the OP, I would have found that gem.

What if we put McElroy on the field as well. That would be a total mind **** for the defense. I think McElroy could take the snap, hand it to Tebow - who runs to the LOS - and Tebow flips it back to Sanchez, who puts the ball behind his back for Tone to take on a reverse.

UNSTOPPABLE.[/QUOTE]

I think we should have a sound track in the background on these plays featuring "Sweet Georgia Brown" too.

Jeremy Kerley as Curly Neal.

Mark Sanchez as Meadowlark Lemon.

Tim Tebow as Goose Goselin (or whatever that guy's name was). Goose Tatum?

Apache 51 · 06-02-2012, 06:01 PM

[url]

Jordy · 06-02-2012, 06:13 PM

[QUOTE=jetrider;4482625]If you follow 00NYjets' posts you'll notice he talks from both sides of his mouth.

Sparano's simplicity is mainly in the verbiage, the language, [B]and not so much in the architecture of the plays[/B].[/QUOTE]

So you think Sparano will be utilizing much of the same pre-snap movement from the Shoddy reign?

JStokes · 06-02-2012, 06:20 PM

[QUOTE=JetsNeedNewton;4482745]

Just seems like it would be a refreshing break from the fanatics and media to have a positive discussion on the possibilities...[/QUOTE]

Lol, so let's have a positive discussion about putting in a Mickey Mouse offense that HS's in Texas won't even run.

How about putting in a real offense and try to win that way, try and build a scheme to win on a consistent bais.

Or the split Y option wingback reverse plays drawn up in the dirt.

Either one.

_

Ray Ray19 · 06-02-2012, 06:28 PM

[QUOTE=jetrider;4482625][B]If you follow 00NYjets' posts you'll notice he talks from both sides of his mouth.[/B]

Sparano's simplicity is mainly in the verbiage, the language, and not so much in the architecture of the plays.[/QUOTE]

:yes:

Which ever way the majority of the board is swinging. DD must be working on his political career!!

jetrider · 06-02-2012, 06:29 PM

[QUOTE=Jordy;4482754]So you think Sparano will be utilizing much of the same pre-snap movement from the Shoddy reign?[/QUOTE]

We'll see.

I imagine he'll listen to players' input and eliminate stuff that screws them up.

southparkcpa · 06-02-2012, 06:31 PM

[QUOTE=jetrider;4482762]We'll see.

I imagine he'll listen to players' input and eliminate stuff that screws them up.[/QUOTE]

NO WAY....he didn't come here to listen to players. he will call the offense.

Mainejet · 06-02-2012, 06:40 PM

[QUOTE=JetsNeedNewton;4482496]Can we, for just one thread, imagine what Rex, Tanny, Sanchez, Tebow and the entire team are saying is true? That they aren't all lying and our two QBs are going to turn into the most incredible duo this game has seen? There are a lot of football smart people here, given the skill sets of the two, what kind of things can work?

I lean towards the more outlandish, with both of them in the backfield on occasion and neither behind center. The X-option or whatever. Something I've been advocating since Vick was coming out of jail. Tebow takes the snap, flips it to Sanchez who drills a pass. Or Sanchez takes it, sees the play's not going anywhere, gets it to Tebow who passes or runs.

Also interesting to me is how Sparano is going to introduce it. They don't want to give things away in the preseason so I'm betting we see traditional wild cat up until the first game, get teams preparing for it. Maybe one or two wild cats the first game and then boom, the x-option. Probably a couple of variations just to see how teams react. 2nd game they adjust, introduce some more variations. By Thanksgiving, we really have it down and decimate the Pats.

I'm sure there are better more detailed things we could do with the two of them, even with only one on the field at a time. Thoughts?

Oh, and if trolls try to divert the discussion can we just ignore them? I've noticed they tend to go elsewhere quickly if they aren't getting the attention they crave.[/QUOTE]

It would not surprise me in the least to see Tebow on the field at the same time with Sanchez. Tebow is a jack of all football trades, master of none. Therefore, it is his versatility on the football field that he would end up being on the field at the same time with Sanchez.

FB? WR? TE? None of it would surprise me. Tebow will do his thing no matter what he's been assigned. That's the kind of player he is. He's a consumate team player that has winning in mind.

For Sanchez, he just needs to improve his craft so he can develop chemistry with Tebow. Sanchez has a long way to go to become a decent QB. If he gets there, the two of them could achieve some great things.

Ray Ray19 · 06-02-2012, 06:42 PM

[QUOTE=Jordy;4482754]So you think Sparano will be utilizing much of the same pre-snap movement from the Shoddy reign?[/QUOTE]

why not?

jetrider · 06-02-2012, 07:05 PM

[QUOTE=southparkcpa;4482764]NO WAY....he didn't come here to listen to players. he will call the offense.[/QUOTE]

I'm talking about designing plays not calling them.

lageman4ever · 06-02-2012, 07:22 PM

[QUOTE=JStokes;4482538]How about this.

We build a really strong offensive line that can protect the quarterback, but also run block.

We compile a stable of running backs that can either wear a defense down or break a 6-12 yard run every few plays.

We develop a core of good, big, fast receivers that run good routes and don't drop passes.

We develop an offensive scheme that plays to the strength of our Quarterback.

We protect said Quarteback so he can contimue to develop on an uphill track.

And then we go out and let our Quarterback run an offense that doesn't rely on a trick play here or there, let him throw the ball 30+ times a game, run the ball 35+ times a game and play football like a real NFL team and not some sandlot team running plays drawn up in some prison yard.

Either your way or mine, either one would be fine.

_[/QUOTE]

this

TechJet · 06-02-2012, 07:30 PM

[QUOTE=JetsNeedNewton;4482496]Can we, for just one thread, imagine what Rex, Tanny, Sanchez, Tebow and the entire team are saying is true? That they aren't all lying and our two QBs are going to turn into the most incredible duo this game has seen? There are a lot of football smart people here, given the skill sets of the two, what kind of things can work?

I lean towards the more outlandish, with both of them in the backfield on occasion and neither behind center. The X-option or whatever. Something I've been advocating since Vick was coming out of jail. Tebow takes the snap, flips it to Sanchez who drills a pass. Or Sanchez takes it, sees the play's not going anywhere, gets it to Tebow who passes or runs.

Also interesting to me is how Sparano is going to introduce it. They don't want to give things away in the preseason so I'm betting we see traditional wild cat up until the first game, get teams preparing for it. Maybe one or two wild cats the first game and then boom, the x-option. Probably a couple of variations just to see how teams react. 2nd game they adjust, introduce some more variations. By Thanksgiving, we really have it down and decimate the Pats.

I'm sure there are better more detailed things we could do with the two of them, even with only one on the field at a time. Thoughts?

Oh, and if trolls try to divert the discussion can we just ignore them? I've noticed they tend to go elsewhere quickly if they aren't getting the attention they crave.[/QUOTE]

OOkay!:eek:

Jordy · 06-02-2012, 07:48 PM

[QUOTE=jetrider;4482762]We'll see.

I imagine he'll listen to players' input and eliminate stuff that screws them up.[/QUOTE]

If Sparano has to listen to his players in order to decide to use pre-snap movement or not, then we hired the wrong guy.

[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4482771]why not?[/QUOTE]

Seriously?

I guarantee you both the pre-snap movement we saw with Shoddy will be a thing of the past.

That in itself was probably the most ineffective aspect of Shoddy's offensive "strategy." It fools nor confuses NO ONE other than the players on the offense.

jetrider · 06-02-2012, 08:02 PM

[QUOTE=Jordy;4482815]If Sparano has to listen to his players in order to decide to use pre-snap movement or not, then we hired the wrong guy.[/QUOTE]

I didn't say he "has to" listen, as if he's clueless, but don't you think any reasonable OC would?

Don't you think they rehearse plays and work out the bugs in practice?

You think players like Holmes and Sanchez shouldn't give their input?

06-02-2012, 12:10 PM	#21
ASG0531 Veteran Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,723	[QUOTE=DDNYjets;4482520]LOL. I wish I actually read the OP, I would have found that gem. What if we put McElroy on the field as well. That would be a total mind **** for the defense. I think McElroy could take the snap, hand it to Tebow - who runs to the LOS - and Tebow flips it back to Sanchez, who puts the ball behind his back for Tone to take on a reverse. UNSTOPPABLE.[/QUOTE] It kind of boggles my mind that people hate on Schotty for all his offensive complexity and yet root for this kind of stuff and Sparano's approach toward a more simplistic offense, all in the same breath. (I know you're being sarcastic, I'm on your side, fwiw). Last edited by ASG0531; 06-02-2012 at 12:14 PM.

06-02-2012, 06:01 PM	#27
Jordy Keeping it real... Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Tårnby, Denmark Posts: 23,145	[QUOTE=DDNYjets;4482520]LOL. I wish I actually read the OP, I would have found that gem. What if we put McElroy on the field as well. That would be a total mind **** for the defense. I think McElroy could take the snap, hand it to Tebow - who runs to the LOS - and Tebow flips it back to Sanchez, who puts the ball behind his back for Tone to take on a reverse. UNSTOPPABLE.[/QUOTE] I think we should have a sound track in the background on these plays featuring "Sweet Georgia Brown" too. Jeremy Kerley as Curly Neal. Mark Sanchez as Meadowlark Lemon. Tim Tebow as Goose Goselin (or whatever that guy's name was). Goose Tatum? Last edited by Jordy; 06-02-2012 at 06:16 PM.

06-02-2012, 01:05 PM	#22
jetrider Where are the Jets? Veteran Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,912	[QUOTE=ASG0531;4482601]It kind of boggles my mind that people hate on Schotty for all his offensive complexity and yet root for this kind of stuff and Sparano's approach toward a more simplistic offense, all in the same breath. (I know you're being sarcastic, I'm on your side, fwiw).[/QUOTE] If you follow 00NYjets' posts you'll notice he talks from both sides of his mouth. Sparano's simplicity is mainly in the verbiage, the language, and not so much in the architecture of the plays.

06-02-2012, 02:13 PM	#23
lageman4ever Hall Of Fame Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,153	two QB = no QB

06-02-2012, 02:14 PM	#24
DDNYjets Bye week buh bye Rex Hall Of Fame Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: New York Posts: 12,297	[QUOTE=jetrider;4482625]If you follow 00NYjets' posts you'll notice he talks from both sides of his mouth. [/QUOTE] I have learned well from Tannenbaum. BTW, the "00" is a nice touch. :D

06-02-2012, 05:31 PM	#25
GreenGeek Cautiously optimistic thanks to Idzik. Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Stony Brook Posts: 1,662	I see both QBs on the field as a real option. Even the standard wildcat puts the main qb in the huddle, having him line up as a WR once the huddle breaks. Tebow is a valid threat running the ball. Line him up as RB and throw him the occasional direct snap. Creates uncertainty (hesitation) on D without going pop warner... I hope Sparano sees Tebow as yet another weapon and not merely someone who is either clipboard-carrier or pop-warner-hits-the-pros. I actually EXPECT creativity w/o insanity. Slly me...

06-02-2012, 05:53 PM	#26
JetsNeedNewton Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 1,694	[QUOTE=Limolady;4482530]I'm just wondering what ever gave you the idea that anyone was lying? Do you seriously give any validation to what the media spins and conspiracy theory fans have to say? The best collaboration of football talent is currently being assembled, evaluated and tested to see what works. Sparano was the missing piece of the pyramid and I have no doubt he's got gadget plays that's going to involve three QB's on the field. Wrap your Xs & Os around that. (-;[/QUOTE] You misunderstood, I don't think they are lying. I'm saying that everyone who argues it is going to be either Sanchez OR Tebow has to assume Rex, Tanny et al are lying... because everything they are saying is to the contrary. I'm optimistic that it's not an inevitable battle for #1 QB and that there will be lot's of ways they will work together. The team has stated a gazillion times there will be lots of innovative ways Tebow and the team will work together. Ok, don't like my approach fine, I said it was the more outlandish. But then what ways? We know all the "it has to be one or the other" arguments to the point of tears. But I've really seen little speculation outside of personal protector on STs on how their talents could be best utilized in tandem. The wise asses have had thier say, and obviously don't have a clue what the potential Rex, Tanny, Sparano and the rest of the team see is. It's a very simple premise: Assume these guys are honestly going to work together to get us to a Superbowl, you are the HC or OC (I know that's a stretch since no one on this board ever thinks they are smarter than the coaches,) how do you derive the maximum synergy from these diverse talents? Just seems like it would be a refreshing break from the fanatics and media to have a positive discussion on the possibilities...

06-02-2012, 06:01 PM	#28
Apache 51 Let's Kill them all......... Hall Of Fame Join Date: May 2009 Location: In Morris Co.,N.J.,at the right end of a Browning 12 gauge Posts: 12,642	[url]

06-02-2012, 06:13 PM	#29
Jordy Keeping it real... Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Tårnby, Denmark Posts: 23,145	[QUOTE=jetrider;4482625]If you follow 00NYjets' posts you'll notice he talks from both sides of his mouth. Sparano's simplicity is mainly in the verbiage, the language, [B]and not so much in the architecture of the plays[/B].[/QUOTE] So you think Sparano will be utilizing much of the same pre-snap movement from the Shoddy reign?

06-02-2012, 06:20 PM	#30
JStokes Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bergen County, NJ Posts: 20,126	[QUOTE=JetsNeedNewton;4482745] Just seems like it would be a refreshing break from the fanatics and media to have a positive discussion on the possibilities...[/QUOTE] Lol, so let's have a positive discussion about putting in a Mickey Mouse offense that HS's in Texas won't even run. How about putting in a real offense and try to win that way, try and build a scheme to win on a consistent bais. Or the split Y option wingback reverse plays drawn up in the dirt. Either one. _

06-02-2012, 06:28 PM	#31
Ray Ray19 Not a SOJF Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 13,834	[QUOTE=jetrider;4482625][B]If you follow 00NYjets' posts you'll notice he talks from both sides of his mouth.[/B] Sparano's simplicity is mainly in the verbiage, the language, and not so much in the architecture of the plays.[/QUOTE] :yes: Which ever way the majority of the board is swinging. DD must be working on his political career!!

06-02-2012, 06:29 PM	#32
jetrider Where are the Jets? Veteran Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,912	[QUOTE=Jordy;4482754]So you think Sparano will be utilizing much of the same pre-snap movement from the Shoddy reign?[/QUOTE] We'll see. I imagine he'll listen to players' input and eliminate stuff that screws them up.

06-02-2012, 06:31 PM	#33
southparkcpa I see the 88 to 97 period all over again. Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NC Posts: 15,750	[QUOTE=jetrider;4482762]We'll see. I imagine he'll listen to players' input and eliminate stuff that screws them up.[/QUOTE] NO WAY....he didn't come here to listen to players. he will call the offense.

06-02-2012, 06:40 PM	#34
Mainejet impatiently waiting for the Jets to win the SB Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 11,880	[QUOTE=JetsNeedNewton;4482496]Can we, for just one thread, imagine what Rex, Tanny, Sanchez, Tebow and the entire team are saying is true? That they aren't all lying and our two QBs are going to turn into the most incredible duo this game has seen? There are a lot of football smart people here, given the skill sets of the two, what kind of things can work? I lean towards the more outlandish, with both of them in the backfield on occasion and neither behind center. The X-option or whatever. Something I've been advocating since Vick was coming out of jail. Tebow takes the snap, flips it to Sanchez who drills a pass. Or Sanchez takes it, sees the play's not going anywhere, gets it to Tebow who passes or runs. Also interesting to me is how Sparano is going to introduce it. They don't want to give things away in the preseason so I'm betting we see traditional wild cat up until the first game, get teams preparing for it. Maybe one or two wild cats the first game and then boom, the x-option. Probably a couple of variations just to see how teams react. 2nd game they adjust, introduce some more variations. By Thanksgiving, we really have it down and decimate the Pats. I'm sure there are better more detailed things we could do with the two of them, even with only one on the field at a time. Thoughts? Oh, and if trolls try to divert the discussion can we just ignore them? I've noticed they tend to go elsewhere quickly if they aren't getting the attention they crave.[/QUOTE] It would not surprise me in the least to see Tebow on the field at the same time with Sanchez. Tebow is a jack of all football trades, master of none. Therefore, it is his versatility on the football field that he would end up being on the field at the same time with Sanchez. FB? WR? TE? None of it would surprise me. Tebow will do his thing no matter what he's been assigned. That's the kind of player he is. He's a consumate team player that has winning in mind. For Sanchez, he just needs to improve his craft so he can develop chemistry with Tebow. Sanchez has a long way to go to become a decent QB. If he gets there, the two of them could achieve some great things.

06-02-2012, 06:42 PM	#35
Ray Ray19 Not a SOJF Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 13,834	[QUOTE=Jordy;4482754]So you think Sparano will be utilizing much of the same pre-snap movement from the Shoddy reign?[/QUOTE] why not?

06-02-2012, 07:05 PM	#36
jetrider Where are the Jets? Veteran Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,912	[QUOTE=southparkcpa;4482764]NO WAY....he didn't come here to listen to players. he will call the offense.[/QUOTE] I'm talking about designing plays not calling them.

06-02-2012, 07:22 PM	#37
lageman4ever Hall Of Fame Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,153	[QUOTE=JStokes;4482538]How about this. We build a really strong offensive line that can protect the quarterback, but also run block. We compile a stable of running backs that can either wear a defense down or break a 6-12 yard run every few plays. We develop a core of good, big, fast receivers that run good routes and don't drop passes. We develop an offensive scheme that plays to the strength of our Quarterback. We protect said Quarteback so he can contimue to develop on an uphill track. And then we go out and let our Quarterback run an offense that doesn't rely on a trick play here or there, let him throw the ball 30+ times a game, run the ball 35+ times a game and play football like a real NFL team and not some sandlot team running plays drawn up in some prison yard. Either your way or mine, either one would be fine. _[/QUOTE] this

06-02-2012, 07:30 PM	#38
TechJet Still waiting for the next Jet SB crown. Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Fr:NYC to Mid Ga. Posts: 8,548	[QUOTE=JetsNeedNewton;4482496]Can we, for just one thread, imagine what Rex, Tanny, Sanchez, Tebow and the entire team are saying is true? That they aren't all lying and our two QBs are going to turn into the most incredible duo this game has seen? There are a lot of football smart people here, given the skill sets of the two, what kind of things can work? I lean towards the more outlandish, with both of them in the backfield on occasion and neither behind center. The X-option or whatever. Something I've been advocating since Vick was coming out of jail. Tebow takes the snap, flips it to Sanchez who drills a pass. Or Sanchez takes it, sees the play's not going anywhere, gets it to Tebow who passes or runs. Also interesting to me is how Sparano is going to introduce it. They don't want to give things away in the preseason so I'm betting we see traditional wild cat up until the first game, get teams preparing for it. Maybe one or two wild cats the first game and then boom, the x-option. Probably a couple of variations just to see how teams react. 2nd game they adjust, introduce some more variations. By Thanksgiving, we really have it down and decimate the Pats. I'm sure there are better more detailed things we could do with the two of them, even with only one on the field at a time. Thoughts? Oh, and if trolls try to divert the discussion can we just ignore them? I've noticed they tend to go elsewhere quickly if they aren't getting the attention they crave.[/QUOTE] OOkay!:eek:

06-02-2012, 07:48 PM	#39
Jordy Keeping it real... Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Tårnby, Denmark Posts: 23,145	[QUOTE=jetrider;4482762]We'll see. I imagine he'll listen to players' input and eliminate stuff that screws them up.[/QUOTE] If Sparano has to listen to his players in order to decide to use pre-snap movement or not, then we hired the wrong guy. [QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4482771]why not?[/QUOTE] Seriously? I guarantee you both the pre-snap movement we saw with Shoddy will be a thing of the past. That in itself was probably the most ineffective aspect of Shoddy's offensive "strategy." It fools nor confuses NO ONE other than the players on the offense.

06-02-2012, 08:02 PM	#40
jetrider Where are the Jets? Veteran Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,912	[QUOTE=Jordy;4482815]If Sparano has to listen to his players in order to decide to use pre-snap movement or not, then we hired the wrong guy.[/QUOTE] I didn't say he "has to" listen, as if he's clueless, but don't you think any reasonable OC would? Don't you think they rehearse plays and work out the bugs in practice? You think players like Holmes and Sanchez shouldn't give their input?