COACH-ing dept. : Belichick , Rex .... ~ ~ ~

[John_0515]

Originally Posted by GuidoYaztremski

Agree with this. And who knows, if they convert even one or two more plays per game, maybe they win another SB last year.

Pats didn't lose the Superbowl because of their corners. They had every opportunity to win that game.

[OCCH]

Originally Posted by patman

maybe only a couple of points a game, but even on some unsuccessful drives that may get 3 or 4 more 1st downs in the game controlling the clock for another 3-5 min, less time for the opposing team to run the ball, forcing more passes.

I just think it's a pretty high bar to expect to raise higher . . .

[PatsFanTX]

Originally Posted by patman

Based on last year, behind Arrington and maybe even Moore just on the pats.
Based on his rookie year, the 2nd best in the division.

McCourty was lost out there the entire year.

He struggled mightily when the Pats began playing more man-to-man coverage.

This took McCourty out of his element of zone coverage where he was/is excellent at closing on the ball and jumping routes.

[DDNYjets]

The Pats just need to score enough to get home field throughout the playoffs, or at the very least a first round bye. Doesn't matter what their record is or what their stats are. They need to stay healthy.

As for the defense, Beli will do what he has done for the last few years. Coach them up throughout the season and hopefully get them playing well in time for the playoffs. He knows they are not going to dominate defensively, he just needs them not to phuck things up for the offense. Besides, I do not think there defense has been nearly as bad as people have made them out to be the past few years. I equate them to the pitcher who is pitching with a 7 run lead.

Pats are a lock for 12 wins. Whether they score 32, 34 or 27 ppg is meaningless.

[ASG0531]

Originally Posted by OCCH

I just think it's a pretty high bar to expect to raise higher . . .

"Improving" the Pats' O has nothing to do with adding a few PPG, it has to do with creating a more versatile offense that can handle the elite defenses of the league come playoff time. They've gotten burned by limited offensive play-calling options in addition to the pass protection issues in crunch time.

Adding more legitimate weapons like Lloyd on the outside and trying to develop their young RBs in Ridley and Vereen as not only more dynamic runners than Law Firm but also pass-catchers creates more coverage problems for the defense and doesn't allow teams to flood the middle and for safeties to creep up and ignore the WRs. It also takes some burden of off Brady to win games on his arm alone, which is much needed for the Pats.

Think the Saints' "you can't cover everyone" type of offense. I think that's their ideal and what they will be working on. Make the only way to beat you defensively be a pass rush in Brady's face.

[John_0515]

Originally Posted by PatsFanTX

McCourty was lost out there the entire year.

He struggled mightily when the Pats began playing more man-to-man coverage.

This took McCourty out of his element of zone coverage where he was/is excellent at closing on the ball and jumping routes.

Unfortunately there are many players (in the NFL) who can do that. And not to give McCourty excuses, but he had no support from the safeties in many instances.

McCourty isn't as bad as we're making him out to be. I think he had a poor season last year, for a variety of reasons - not just his own.

[FijiJet]

Originally Posted by John_0515

Pats didn't lose the Superbowl because of their corners. They had every opportunity to win that game.

LOL

[OCCH]

Originally Posted by ASG0531

"Improving" the Pats' O has nothing to do with adding a few PPG, it has to do with creating a more versatile offense that can handle the elite defenses of the league come playoff time. They've gotten burned by limited offensive play-calling options in addition to the pass protection issues in crunch time.

Adding more legitimate weapons like Lloyd on the outside and trying to develop their young RBs in Ridley and Vereen as not only more dynamic runners than Law Firm but also pass-catchers creates more coverage problems for the defense and doesn't allow teams to flood the middle and for safeties to creep up and ignore the WRs. It also takes some burden of off Brady to win games on his arm alone, which is much needed for the Pats.

Think the Saints' "you can't cover everyone" type of offense. I think that's their ideal and what they will be working on. Make the only way to beat you defensively be a pass rush in Brady's face.

I can see the playoff side of things. But you'll still be in a position where you likely had a quality offense/record during the season, then have to hope it's enough for the playoffs.

I'm not sure Brandon Lloyd is gonna make the difference in a SB, but only time will tell . . .

[ASG0531]

Originally Posted by OCCH

I can see the playoff side of things. But you'll still be in a position where you likely had a quality offense/record during the season, then have to hope it's enough for the playoffs.

I'm not sure Brandon Lloyd is gonna make the difference in a SB, but only time will tell . . .

The Pats' offense has been putting up great records and PPG for years, but struggling down the stretch or in the playoffs. They are excellent at blowing out weak defenses, but struggle against an elite, versatile defense that can shutdown their few mismatches (TEs now/Moss previously, Welker) when they need to because they have the personnel to do so, and that's pretty much all the Pats had as offensive options. Versatility in the form of outside receiving options and an actual running game make it harder for any defense to do so. It's been a recurring problem for them and that's what they are trying to rectify.

Of course at the end of the day any team just has to execute and perform when it counts no matter the weapons they have. But the more you have, the better the chances. If Gronk wasn't hobbled in the Super Bowl and they had a guy like Lloyd, it might just have been the difference.

[kelly]

Originally Posted by patman

Based on last year, behind Arrington and maybe even Moore just on the pats.
Based on his rookie year, the 2nd best in the division.

wow .... just, WOW

[kelly]

> http://www.thejetsblog.com/2012/06/0...ip-with-stats/

[kelly]

> http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/ey...SSports.com%29

[patsfanken]

If Jet fans don't think that the Pats secondary isn't going to be better this season, then they are truly delusional. Granted its all kind of relative and the bar wasn't set very high last season. But how much better do they have to be to have success. Personally I'm looking for relative improvement. Top 18 in total D, top 10 in scoring D,

Remember DESPITE being made up of mostly UDFA's and refugees from the offense the defense STILL allowed fewer points that the group you had in NJ....and allowed only one team to score 30+ points compared to FIVE for the Jets "top 5" D. But I forgot, points don't matter in football, only yards.

[kelly]

1. NOT TWO-MINUTE TONY :
Rex Ryan praised Tony Sparano's ability to coordinate a two-minute offense, comparing his organizational skills to those of Bill Belichick. "Nobody has done it better than the Dolphins in the last few years," Ryan said. Actually, just about every team has done it better. During his four seasons as the Dolphins' head coach (2008-2011), Sparano's offense recorded a league-low 11 TDs in the final two minutes of each half, according to ESPN Stats & Information. (The Colts led with 33 TDs.) The Dolphins also produced the third-lowest point total, 146. (The Saints led with 298.) The Dolphins can't chalk it up to a lack of opportunities; they had 145 drives in the final two minutes of each half, ninth-most in the league. Sparano might be an organized, detail-obsessed coach, but those attributes haven't produced winning results in hurry-up situations.

2. MORE 4-3 LOOKS :
The decision to draft DE Quinton Coples fueled speculation that the Jets, who employ a 3-4 base defense, will use more 4-3 alignments. Well, it's not speculation anymore; it's true. "It just makes sense to use four true defensive linemen," DC Mike Pettine told ESPNNewYork.com. They've always sprinkled in some 4-3, but it usually involved an OLB (Calvin Pace or Bryan Thomas) lining up in a three-point stance with three linemen. But now the plan in certain situations is to line up Coples and Muhammad Wilkerson on the outside, with Sione Pouha and Mike DeVito inside -- all true linemen. Two reasons: There's uncertainty at Thomas' position (he's returning from Achilles tendon surgery) and it keeps DeVito on the field. Pettine said he wants his best 11.

3. MONEY MATTERS :
Obviously, Darrelle Revis isn't happy with his contract. Whether he's willing to go to the mattresses (pardon the "Godfather" reference) remains to be seen. If he does, if he stages his second training-camp holdout in three years, it could get ugly because you get the distinct sense the Jets have absolutely no desire to renegotiate. Interestingly, former Jets coach and ESPN analyst Eric Mangini, in an on-air segment, sided with Revis in the potential dispute.

4. FAULT LINE :
The Jets signed two journeymen OTs on the same day, Ray Willis and Stephon Heyer, and many assumed it was to replace beleaguered RT Wayne Hunter. This is how an opposing personnel executive interpreted the moves: "Those moves are insurance and tell me they may not trust their current insurance -- (Vladimir Ducasse)." Not coincidentally, Ducasse has been working at left guard during OTAs. In his career, he has gone from left guard to right tackle to left guard. Next is left out.

5. VEEP EXODUS :
The Jets' front office has experienced significant upheaval over the last two years. Three vice presidents left the organization to "pursue other opportunities," as they say in the business -- Matt Higgins (business operations), Thad Sheely (finance/stadium development) and Joey Clinkscales (college scouting). A fourth VP Bob Parente (programming/media production), one of the true gentlemen, is moving to a consulting role after 35 years in the organization. Change is inevitable in any business, but this is a curious amount of turnover.

6. MAGICAL MOMENT :
Johan Santana's no-hitter, the first in Mets history, got me to thinking: What would be the Jets' equivalent to Santana's achievement? Curious to get your thoughts.

7. CHECK, PLEASE :
Coples recently went out to dinner with the rest of the defensive linemen, and the No. 1 pick thought he'd have to use some of his $4.8 million signing bonus to pay the entire tab. It's an NFL tradition: The rookie pays. "He was getting a little nervous," Pouha said. But the Jets' D-line has its own tradition: The oldest pays. In this case, Pouha. That tradition started in 2005, Pouha's rookie year, when he was saved by elder statesman Shaun Ellis, who grabbed the check. That's what you call paying it forward.

8. HARD (TO BELIEVE) KNOCKS :
That the Dolphins agreed to HBO's "Hard Knocks" is stunning because their top football man, GM Jeff Ireland, is a Bill Parcells disciple. If you know anything about Parcells, who hired Ireland in Miami, you know he'd rather watch a re-run loop of the Jets-Broncos '98 AFC Championship Game than have TV cameras invading his inner sanctum. But Parcells is long gone in Miami, and the Dolphins have an owner, Stephen Ross, who needs to fill his stadium and grow his brand. Rookie coach Joe Philbin called it a "football decision," which was laughable.

9. HIS NOSE IS GROWING :
Niners coach Jim Harbaugh said he never pursued Peyton Manning in free agency. Oh, really? Next he'll be telling us he and Jim Schwartz are going on a fishing trip together.

10. ALL'S WELL THAT ENDS :
The Giants finally took care of Osi Umenyiora, but they did it in a curious way -- money for nothing. They gave him a $3.5 million raise for 2012, but they didn't get anything in return -- no additional years on the contract, according to various reports. He's still a free agent after the season. Strange way of doing business. I guess they got tired of hearing him whine.

> http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jet...in-crunch-time

[kelly]

Originally Posted by patsfanken

If Jet fans don't think that the Pats secondary isn't going to be better this season, then they are truly delusional. Granted its all kind of relative and the bar wasn't set very high last season. But how much better do they have to be to have success. Personally I'm looking for relative improvement. Top 18 in total D, top 10 in scoring D,

Remember DESPITE being made up of mostly UDFA's and refugees from the offense the defense STILL allowed fewer points that the group you had in NJ....and allowed only one team to score 30+ points compared to FIVE for the Jets "top 5" D. But I forgot, points don't matter in football, only yards.

fyi :

~ ~ Show and prove : Devin McCourty

Each day this week, the AFC East blog will take a look at a player with a lot to prove in 2012. Monday our "Show and Prove" series continues with New England Patriots defensive back Devin McCourty.

Devin McCourty, Patriots

2011 stats : 87 tackles, two interceptions

What he must prove :
McCourty must prove his stellar rookie year wasn’t a fluke. New England’s 2010 first-round pick took the NFL by storm as a rookie with 82 tackles, seven interceptions and two forced fumbles. McCourty looked like a genius pick by the Patriots and made the Pro Bowl. But McCourty had a huge sophomore slump in 2011. He struggled mightily in coverage. He lost his confidence and also had a shoulder injury. Towards the end of the season McCourty was moved to safety.

Walker's 2012 outlook :
This is a tough one. For as impressive as McCourty looked as a rookie, he was equally as bad last season. The NFL is a "now" league. You're only as good as your last game/season. I expect McCourty to improve but I don't anticipate him being the shutdown No. 1 corner he was on track to be his first season. The Patriots will give McCourty a chance at corner again. But if that doesn’t work out, expect him to rotate playing time at safety. One thing that is consistent with McCourty is his solid tackling. He’s solid in that area and that will keep him on the field.

> http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post...devin-mccourty

[Rexipus Rex]

Originally Posted by patsfanken

If Jet fans don't think that the Pats secondary isn't going to be better this season, then they are truly delusional. Granted its all kind of relative and the bar wasn't set very high last season. But how much better do they have to be to have success. Personally I'm looking for relative improvement. Top 18 in total D, top 10 in scoring D,

Remember DESPITE being made up of mostly UDFA's and refugees from the offense the defense STILL allowed fewer points that the group you had in NJ....and allowed only one team to score 30+ points compared to FIVE for the Jets "top 5" D. But I forgot, points don't matter in football, only yards.

Well something tells me the Jets won't have 6 special teams turnovers all in their own territory again. I also don't think they'll surrender 6+ returns for TDs on fumbles and INTs. That's 42 automatic points and then 6 more opportunities to at least get a FG.

But yeah, you can use your stats without any context whatsoever. I think we know who had and has the better defense.

[patman]

Originally Posted by Rexipus Rex

Well something tells me the Jets won't have 6 special teams turnovers all in their own territory again. I also don't think they'll surrender 6+ returns for TDs on fumbles and INTs. That's 42 automatic points and then 6 more opportunities to at least get a FG.

But yeah, you can use your stats without any context whatsoever. I think we know who had and has the better defense.

The jets have a better d, sure. That better D got you to 8-8 last year.

[patsfanken]

Originally Posted by Rexipus Rex

Well something tells me the Jets won't have 6 special teams turnovers all in their own territory again. I also don't think they'll surrender 6+ returns for TDs on fumbles and INTs. That's 42 automatic points and then 6 more opportunities to at least get a FG.

But yeah, you can use your stats without any context whatsoever. I think we know who had and has the better defense.

Please, every team has TO's that put their D in bad situations. For example, in that one game where the Pats allowed more than 30, they had one Pick returned for a TD, and another returned to the 2 ydline. That's 14 of the 34 the Pats allowed. It happens.

Granted it happens MORE if your QB is Mark Sanchez

[kelly]

Originally Posted by patman

The jets have a better d, sure. That better D got you to 8-8 last year.

our O dept. had issues






cheers ~ ~

[Rexipus Rex]

Originally Posted by patman

The jets have a better d, sure. That better D got you to 8-8 last year.

Right, because we have a solid D, not a HOF defense. You have a HOF QB, not just a solid offense. Arguing anything otherwise lends you little credibility.

Originally Posted by patsfanken

Please, every team has TO's that put their D in bad situations. For example, in that one game where the Pats allowed more than 30, they had one Pick returned for a TD, and another returned to the 2 ydline. That's 14 of the 34 the Pats allowed. It happens.

Granted it happens MORE if your QB is Mark Sanchez

Oh gosh. Here, take off your clown shoes and take a seat for a minute. I'll lay this out nice and slowly for you so that it passes through your thick chowderhead skull.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ext...-special-teams

There are two kinds of special teams fumbles: regular fumbles and muffs. We count these differently because muffed punts (and the rarer muffed kickoffs) are recovered by the return team much more often than fumbles that take place after the return has actually started. Except, apparently, by the 2011 Jets.

The Jets have four muffed punts. The opposition has recovered three of them. The rest of the league has 37 muffed punts, and the opposition has recovered only six of them.

On kickoffs, only one muffed kickoff has been recovered by the opposition this year. That muffed kickoff was by the Jets. In general, half of all fumbled kick returns are recovered by the opposition. The Jets lost both their fumbles.


Based off those numbers, it certainly doesn't seem like every team had encountered the same issues like you claim.

You're talking about 14 points. I'm talking about 42 points on returns for TDs (14 of which had nothing to do with Sanchez) plus the 6 special teams turnovers, which gave the opposition the ball on the Jets 13, 18, 14, 42, 36, and 18 yard line. That's 4 drives that get to start inside the red zone, one still in FG range, and one that was one measly first down away from FG range. That led to an extra 20 points for the opposition. In sum, we're talking about 62 points (nearly 4 PPG) that the team pissed away and the actual defense deserves little or no blame for.

But yeah, that Pats D is better than the Jets D