Is winning the division too much of a stretch? - Page 15 - Jets Insider.com Forums

Jordy · 06-20-2012, 04:33 PM

[QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4496635]Awww somebody should pick her up instead they go get the camera.[/QUOTE]

According to the bottom of the photo, Rex took it.

Figures.

But I can't believe he didn't get the feet in there.

EternalChampion · 06-20-2012, 04:33 PM

[QUOTE=NY2FLDWC85;4496630]And if the Jets were "0-4" during AFC Championship games, then please explain how Joe Namath and the Jets ended up playing in one of the greatest SB's (championship games) of all-time. [/QUOTE]Err, well, SB III was before the NFL/AFL merger so the Jets had to win the AFL championship game to get there, not the AFC championship game.

Jordy · 06-20-2012, 04:35 PM

[QUOTE=EternalChampion;4496639]Err, well, SB III was before the NFL/AFL merger so the Jets had to win the AFL championship game to get there, not the AFC championship game.[/QUOTE]

Winner by technicality.

Mohegangreen · 06-20-2012, 04:40 PM

[QUOTE=NY2FLDWC85;4496630][B]
Why do you always have to go out of your way, on a New York Jets fan site, to correct Jet fans in regards to feeling good about our team?[/B]

It's not about trophies. Two AFC Championship games during a three year period just goes to show that our franchise is heading in the right direction under both Ryan and Sanchez. Sanchez and the Jets have eliminated QB's and teams such as Palmer and the Bengals, Rivers and the Chargers, Brady and the Patriots as well as Manning and the Colts, all on the road as playoff road warriors.

And if the Jets were "0-4" during AFC Championship games, then please explain how Joe Namath and the Jets ended up playing in one of the greatest SB's (championship games) of all-time.

But yeah, what the Jets have done during our first 3 years under coach Ryan and Sanchez is stuff that you Patriots trolls (not fans, but trolls) said was never possible during the offseason of 2009. A.) Winning games. B.) Top 5 D's. C.) Eliminating NE from the playoffs etc, etc.

:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Thats the real point they are trolls not fans, I wouldn't hang around a Patsie board if you paid me, Tx chooses to spend all his time annoying us, get a life troll

Limolady · 06-20-2012, 04:52 PM

[QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4496635]Awww somebody should pick her up instead they go get the camera.[/QUOTE]

That's pretty much sums the life of a NY Jet fan huh?

;)

[QUOTE=Jordy;4496637]You do realize that other photo was one I posted?[/QUOTE]

Yes Jordy & thank you so much for your never ending contributions to the JI collective. I can't imagine clicking on a topic & NOT seeing a post or six from you.

:D

Jordy · 06-20-2012, 05:00 PM

[QUOTE=Limolady;4496664]That's pretty much sums the life of a NY Jet fan huh?

;)

Yes Jordy & thank you so much for your never ending contributions to the JI collective. I can't imagine clicking on a topic & NOT seeing a post or six from you.

:D[/QUOTE]

Ouch.

I know a backhanded compliment when I see one. :(

LadainianIMnotDONE · 06-20-2012, 06:44 PM

[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4495951]Not being negative at all, just realistic.

The current Jets are not a 12 or 13 win football team.

Most national publications, and even Vegas, have the Jets at a 6-8 win football team.[/QUOTE]

^^ He's right and you can always trust those national publications and what Vegas thinks. I mean just last year they had the Giants ... oh wait.

LadainianIMnotDONE · 06-20-2012, 06:48 PM

[QUOTE=Limolady;4496664]That's pretty much sums the life of a NY Jet fan huh?

;)

Yes Jordy & thank you so much for your never ending contributions to the JI collective. I can't imagine clicking on a topic & NOT seeing a post or six from you.

:D[/QUOTE]

Jordy just got run over a Limo. I always knew you'd go out in style.

NY's stepchild · 06-20-2012, 06:51 PM

[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4496296]That's the problem, I'm more informed than the majority of those clowns, most fans are...

Like you've never questioned the legitimacy of a national published sports report... :rolleyes:

How far are you from I-10, isn't there a bridge near by that you can test?[/QUOTE]

What do you have against clowns? A lot of clowns are very well informed. Now you're bad mouthing clowns

Spectre · 06-20-2012, 07:08 PM

Is RayRay always this RahRah about the Jets?

Does he ever post things he wishes they would do to improve the team or does he always post with his green glasses on and a Patriot chip on his shoulder?

I can see by SG's posts he is Mr. Anti-Patriot personified.

NY's stepchild · 06-20-2012, 07:12 PM

[QUOTE=Spectre;4496732]Is RayRay always this RahRah about the Jets?

Does he ever post things he wishes they would do to improve the team or does he always post with his green glasses on and a Patriot chip on his shoulder?

I can see by SG's posts he is Mr. Anti-Patriot personified.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure we're all anti Patriot around here. Most of us just don't get angry at Pats fans for being Pat fans. We just pity them. I'm not sure what you expected at Jets Insider. I just didn't know Ray was anti clown.

Dunnie · 06-20-2012, 07:16 PM

[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4495884]Are you blind or dumb?

Last year the Jets finished 8-8, lost their last 3 games in a row with the playoffs on the line, have an offense with zero playmakers and a QB who is consistently ranked in the bottom 3rd of the league.

The roster they had 2 years ago was much better than the Jets roster heading into 2012.

The Jets have absolutely no chance at winning 12 or 13 games.

Go have another glass of green kool aid.[/QUOTE]

I disagree .. This roster has the POTENTIAL to be much better than the 2010 roster.Depends on the rooks.

sg3 · 06-20-2012, 07:17 PM

Mr Anti Patriot and PROUD OF IT

why would ANY Jet fan not be against a team that won just about everything they've won in 52 years of their existence with the aid of the most heinous cheating in the history of the NFL?

They are the Chicago Black Sox of 1919 and like those cheaters, Belichick and everybody else who was involved in their cheating (yes- Tammi-- YOU) should have been banned from the NFL for LIFE

But the commissioner was new at his job and got his job primarily because of the efforts of Kraft and couldn't bring himself to do the right thing

so YES, I hate the Patriots AND ALWAYS WILL

Spectre · 06-20-2012, 07:53 PM

[QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4496734] I just didn't know Ray was anti clown.[/QUOTE]

Ray IS a clown. But he's YOUR clown.

Mainejet · 06-20-2012, 08:08 PM

[QUOTE=Untouchable;4495724]Look, I'm just as glad as everyone else that Schotty is gone.

But what the hell does his playcalling have to do with Sanchez overthrowing guys by 10+ yards, skipping the ball at his receivers feet, and making some of the worst decisions with the ball that I've seen?

Our success on offense and as a team all rides on Sanchez improving as a QB. As of right now, he's one of the most erratic, inaccurate starting QB's in the league until he proves otherwise.

I don't know how the hell you could be so confident in our backfield either. With LT now gone, we don't have a single back on this roster that can so much as catch a cold or hold their own in pass protection. Greene is a one dimensional inside runner with no receiving skills whatsoever, McKnight is still very much unproven with a knack for putting the ball on the ground, and Powell/Ganaway are total unknowns.[/QUOTE]

+1

I don't believe I can say it any better. I'll just add a couple of points:

1) Sanchez cannot read defenses. For the longest time I thought he was learning, but last season it was made painfully obvious that he simply does not know for the most part what he's looking at. Schotty CONSTANTLY had a person in motion to give Sanchez a better idea what the defense was in and it still didn't work. As you said, he's consistently inaccurate and erratic. He still throws into triple coverage. A really, really, exceptionally smart move.:rolleyes:

It is absolutely true that the teams success is contingent upon Sanchez playing worlds better than how he ended last season. I don't have much faith in him, but I am rooting for a miracle.

2) Not only is McKnight an unproven commodity, he's also very brittle. If the Jets decide to give McKnight more carries they will find out almost immediately that he cannot handle it. The team will be up sh*ts creek without a paddle. My hope is that Ganaway will come up big for us this season, but as you already said he's totally unproven.

GuidoYaztremski · 06-20-2012, 08:29 PM

[QUOTE=sg3;4496736]Mr Anti Patriot and PROUD OF IT

why would ANY Jet fan not be against a team that won just about everything they've won in 52 years of their existence with the aid of the most heinous cheating in the history of the NFL?

They are the Chicago Black Sox of 1919 and like those cheaters, Belichick and everybody else who was involved in their cheating (yes- Tammi-- YOU) should have been banned from the NFL for LIFE

But the commissioner was new at his job and got his job primarily because of the efforts of Kraft and couldn't bring himself to do the right thing

so YES, I hate the Patriots AND ALWAYS WILL[/QUOTE]

Just sad......

Dunnie · 06-20-2012, 10:35 PM

[QUOTE=GuidoYaztremski;4496770]Just sad......[/QUOTE]

The sad fact of the matter is .. The Pats will go down in history much the same way Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire, Pete Rose, Roger Clemens etc have gone down in Baseball history.

There will be those that support them and those that admonish them. And because of that, their legacy will forever be tainted by Spygate.

The difference between the guys I mentioned and Brady, is that Brady will likely make the Hall of Fame on the first ballot he is eligible for. I know I would vote for him ...the guy is that good ... Which is why I hate him.

Unless BB gets another couple rings .. It may be more difficult for him.

NY's stepchild · 06-20-2012, 10:43 PM

[QUOTE=Spectre;4496745]Ray IS a clown. But he's YOUR clown.[/QUOTE]

Self hating clown?

ASG0531 · 06-20-2012, 10:49 PM

[QUOTE=Dunnie;4496859]The sad fact of the matter is .. The Pats will go down in history much the same way Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire, Pete Rose, Roger Clemens etc have gone down in Baseball history.

There will be those that support them and those that admonish them. And because of that, their legacy will forever be tainted by Spygate.

The difference between the guys I mentioned and Brady, is that Brady will likely make the Hall of Fame on the first ballot he is eligible for. I know I would vote for him ...the guy is that good ... Which is why I hate him.

Unless BB gets another couple rings .. It may be more difficult for him.[/QUOTE]

Belichick's going in first-ballot as well, it's not even a question.

NY's stepchild · 06-20-2012, 10:50 PM

[QUOTE=Mainejet;4496758]+1

I don't believe I can say it any better. I'll just add a couple of points:

1) Sanchez cannot read defenses. For the longest time I thought he was learning, but last season it was made painfully obvious that he simply does not know for the most part what he's looking at. Schotty CONSTANTLY had a person in motion to give Sanchez a better idea what the defense was in and it still didn't work. As you said, he's consistently inaccurate and erratic. He still throws into triple coverage. A really, really, exceptionally smart move.:rolleyes:

It is absolutely true that the teams success is contingent upon Sanchez playing worlds better than how he ended last season. I don't have much faith in him, but I am rooting for a miracle.

2) Not only is McKnight an unproven commodity, he's also very brittle. If the Jets decide to give McKnight more carries they will find out almost immediately that he cannot handle it. The team will be up sh*ts creek without a paddle. My hope is that Ganaway will come up big for us this season, but as you already said he's totally unproven.[/QUOTE]

If you listened to the article Jenny just wrote about the new offense you would know that the receivers were locked into their routes, and we kept running the same plays even though we were playing into the defenses hand. Santonio said that many times Mark would be forced into staring down a receiver, because of the play calling, and now they would have the freedom to adjust their routes...so fear not there is still hope.

06-20-2012, 04:33 PM	#281
Jordy Keeping it real... Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Tårnby, Denmark Posts: 23,145	[QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4496635]Awww somebody should pick her up instead they go get the camera.[/QUOTE] According to the bottom of the photo, Rex took it. Figures. But I can't believe he didn't get the feet in there.

06-20-2012, 04:33 PM	#282
EternalChampion In talks to purchase JetsInsider Practice Squad Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 381	[QUOTE=NY2FLDWC85;4496630]And if the Jets were "0-4" during AFC Championship games, then please explain how Joe Namath and the Jets ended up playing in one of the greatest SB's (championship games) of all-time. [/QUOTE]Err, well, SB III was before the NFL/AFL merger so the Jets had to win the AFL championship game to get there, not the AFC championship game.

06-20-2012, 04:35 PM	#283
Jordy Keeping it real... Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Tårnby, Denmark Posts: 23,145	[QUOTE=EternalChampion;4496639]Err, well, SB III was before the NFL/AFL merger so the Jets had to win the AFL championship game to get there, not the AFC championship game.[/QUOTE] Winner by technicality.

06-20-2012, 04:40 PM	#284
Mohegangreen Truth, Justice and The American Way Veteran Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,309	[QUOTE=NY2FLDWC85;4496630][B] Why do you always have to go out of your way, on a New York Jets fan site, to correct Jet fans in regards to feeling good about our team?[/B] It's not about trophies. Two AFC Championship games during a three year period just goes to show that our franchise is heading in the right direction under both Ryan and Sanchez. Sanchez and the Jets have eliminated QB's and teams such as Palmer and the Bengals, Rivers and the Chargers, Brady and the Patriots as well as Manning and the Colts, all on the road as playoff road warriors. And if the Jets were "0-4" during AFC Championship games, then please explain how Joe Namath and the Jets ended up playing in one of the greatest SB's (championship games) of all-time. But yeah, what the Jets have done during our first 3 years under coach Ryan and Sanchez is stuff that you Patriots trolls (not fans, but trolls) said was never possible during the offseason of 2009. A.) Winning games. B.) Top 5 D's. C.) Eliminating NE from the playoffs etc, etc. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] Thats the real point they are trolls not fans, I wouldn't hang around a Patsie board if you paid me, Tx chooses to spend all his time annoying us, get a life troll

06-20-2012, 04:52 PM	#285
Limolady Here On A "Need To Know" Basis. Jets Insider VIP Super*****/Prom Queen Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 16,399	[QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4496635]Awww somebody should pick her up instead they go get the camera.[/QUOTE] That's pretty much sums the life of a NY Jet fan huh? ;) [QUOTE=Jordy;4496637]You do realize that other photo was one I posted?[/QUOTE] Yes Jordy & thank you so much for your never ending contributions to the JI collective. I can't imagine clicking on a topic & NOT seeing a post or six from you. :D

06-20-2012, 05:00 PM	#286
Jordy Keeping it real... Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Tårnby, Denmark Posts: 23,145	[QUOTE=Limolady;4496664]That's pretty much sums the life of a NY Jet fan huh? ;) Yes Jordy & thank you so much for your never ending contributions to the JI collective. I can't imagine clicking on a topic & NOT seeing a post or six from you. :D[/QUOTE] Ouch. I know a backhanded compliment when I see one. :(

06-20-2012, 06:44 PM	#287
LadainianIMnotDONE All League Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,629	[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4495951]Not being negative at all, just realistic. The current Jets are not a 12 or 13 win football team. Most national publications, and even Vegas, have the Jets at a 6-8 win football team.[/QUOTE] ^^ He's right and you can always trust those national publications and what Vegas thinks. I mean just last year they had the Giants ... oh wait.

06-20-2012, 06:48 PM	#288
LadainianIMnotDONE All League Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,629	[QUOTE=Limolady;4496664]That's pretty much sums the life of a NY Jet fan huh? ;) Yes Jordy & thank you so much for your never ending contributions to the JI collective. I can't imagine clicking on a topic & NOT seeing a post or six from you. :D[/QUOTE] Jordy just got run over a Limo. I always knew you'd go out in style.

06-20-2012, 06:51 PM	#289
NY's stepchild Here's hoping that GS3 under center, and Coples on the edge works out. All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hawthorne NJ Posts: 4,713	[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4496296]That's the problem, I'm more informed than the majority of those clowns, most fans are... Like you've never questioned the legitimacy of a national published sports report... :rolleyes: How far are you from I-10, isn't there a bridge near by that you can test?[/QUOTE] What do you have against clowns? A lot of clowns are very well informed. Now you're bad mouthing clowns

06-20-2012, 07:08 PM	#290
Spectre N40 48.79182 W74 4.48859 Rookie Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 572	Is RayRay always this RahRah about the Jets? Does he ever post things he wishes they would do to improve the team or does he always post with his green glasses on and a Patriot chip on his shoulder? I can see by SG's posts he is Mr. Anti-Patriot personified.

06-20-2012, 07:12 PM	#291
NY's stepchild Here's hoping that GS3 under center, and Coples on the edge works out. All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hawthorne NJ Posts: 4,713	[QUOTE=Spectre;4496732]Is RayRay always this RahRah about the Jets? Does he ever post things he wishes they would do to improve the team or does he always post with his green glasses on and a Patriot chip on his shoulder? I can see by SG's posts he is Mr. Anti-Patriot personified.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure we're all anti Patriot around here. Most of us just don't get angry at Pats fans for being Pat fans. We just pity them. I'm not sure what you expected at Jets Insider. I just didn't know Ray was anti clown.

06-20-2012, 07:16 PM	#292
Dunnie still waiting ... All League Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,180	[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4495884]Are you blind or dumb? Last year the Jets finished 8-8, lost their last 3 games in a row with the playoffs on the line, have an offense with zero playmakers and a QB who is consistently ranked in the bottom 3rd of the league. The roster they had 2 years ago was much better than the Jets roster heading into 2012. The Jets have absolutely no chance at winning 12 or 13 games. Go have another glass of green kool aid.[/QUOTE] I disagree .. This roster has the POTENTIAL to be much better than the 2010 roster.Depends on the rooks.

06-20-2012, 07:17 PM	#293
sg3 REX AND THE I-MAN - BACK ON TRACK Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Big Apple, USA Posts: 20,369	Mr Anti Patriot and PROUD OF IT why would ANY Jet fan not be against a team that won just about everything they've won in 52 years of their existence with the aid of the most heinous cheating in the history of the NFL? They are the Chicago Black Sox of 1919 and like those cheaters, Belichick and everybody else who was involved in their cheating (yes- Tammi-- YOU) should have been banned from the NFL for LIFE But the commissioner was new at his job and got his job primarily because of the efforts of Kraft and couldn't bring himself to do the right thing so YES, I hate the Patriots AND ALWAYS WILL

06-20-2012, 07:53 PM	#294
Spectre N40 48.79182 W74 4.48859 Rookie Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 572	[QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4496734] I just didn't know Ray was anti clown.[/QUOTE] Ray IS a clown. But he's YOUR clown.

06-20-2012, 08:08 PM	#295
Mainejet impatiently waiting for the Jets to win the SB Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 11,853	[QUOTE=Untouchable;4495724]Look, I'm just as glad as everyone else that Schotty is gone. But what the hell does his playcalling have to do with Sanchez overthrowing guys by 10+ yards, skipping the ball at his receivers feet, and making some of the worst decisions with the ball that I've seen? Our success on offense and as a team all rides on Sanchez improving as a QB. As of right now, he's one of the most erratic, inaccurate starting QB's in the league until he proves otherwise. I don't know how the hell you could be so confident in our backfield either. With LT now gone, we don't have a single back on this roster that can so much as catch a cold or hold their own in pass protection. Greene is a one dimensional inside runner with no receiving skills whatsoever, McKnight is still very much unproven with a knack for putting the ball on the ground, and Powell/Ganaway are total unknowns.[/QUOTE] +1 I don't believe I can say it any better. I'll just add a couple of points: 1) Sanchez cannot read defenses. For the longest time I thought he was learning, but last season it was made painfully obvious that he simply does not know for the most part what he's looking at. Schotty CONSTANTLY had a person in motion to give Sanchez a better idea what the defense was in and it still didn't work. As you said, he's consistently inaccurate and erratic. He still throws into triple coverage. A really, really, exceptionally smart move.:rolleyes: It is absolutely true that the teams success is contingent upon Sanchez playing worlds better than how he ended last season. I don't have much faith in him, but I am rooting for a miracle. 2) Not only is McKnight an unproven commodity, he's also very brittle. If the Jets decide to give McKnight more carries they will find out almost immediately that he cannot handle it. The team will be up sh*ts creek without a paddle. My hope is that Ganaway will come up big for us this season, but as you already said he's totally unproven.

06-20-2012, 08:29 PM	#296
GuidoYaztremski Tuukka Rask!!! All League Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,613	[QUOTE=sg3;4496736]Mr Anti Patriot and PROUD OF IT why would ANY Jet fan not be against a team that won just about everything they've won in 52 years of their existence with the aid of the most heinous cheating in the history of the NFL? They are the Chicago Black Sox of 1919 and like those cheaters, Belichick and everybody else who was involved in their cheating (yes- Tammi-- YOU) should have been banned from the NFL for LIFE But the commissioner was new at his job and got his job primarily because of the efforts of Kraft and couldn't bring himself to do the right thing so YES, I hate the Patriots AND ALWAYS WILL[/QUOTE] Just sad......

06-20-2012, 10:35 PM	#297
Dunnie still waiting ... All League Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,180	[QUOTE=GuidoYaztremski;4496770]Just sad......[/QUOTE] The sad fact of the matter is .. The Pats will go down in history much the same way Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire, Pete Rose, Roger Clemens etc have gone down in Baseball history. There will be those that support them and those that admonish them. And because of that, their legacy will forever be tainted by Spygate. The difference between the guys I mentioned and Brady, is that Brady will likely make the Hall of Fame on the first ballot he is eligible for. I know I would vote for him ...the guy is that good ... Which is why I hate him. Unless BB gets another couple rings .. It may be more difficult for him.

06-20-2012, 10:43 PM	#298
NY's stepchild Here's hoping that GS3 under center, and Coples on the edge works out. All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hawthorne NJ Posts: 4,713	[QUOTE=Spectre;4496745]Ray IS a clown. But he's YOUR clown.[/QUOTE] Self hating clown?

06-20-2012, 10:49 PM	#299
ASG0531 Veteran Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,714	[QUOTE=Dunnie;4496859]The sad fact of the matter is .. The Pats will go down in history much the same way Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire, Pete Rose, Roger Clemens etc have gone down in Baseball history. There will be those that support them and those that admonish them. And because of that, their legacy will forever be tainted by Spygate. The difference between the guys I mentioned and Brady, is that Brady will likely make the Hall of Fame on the first ballot he is eligible for. I know I would vote for him ...the guy is that good ... Which is why I hate him. Unless BB gets another couple rings .. It may be more difficult for him.[/QUOTE] Belichick's going in first-ballot as well, it's not even a question.

06-20-2012, 10:50 PM	#300
NY's stepchild Here's hoping that GS3 under center, and Coples on the edge works out. All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hawthorne NJ Posts: 4,713	[QUOTE=Mainejet;4496758]+1 I don't believe I can say it any better. I'll just add a couple of points: 1) Sanchez cannot read defenses. For the longest time I thought he was learning, but last season it was made painfully obvious that he simply does not know for the most part what he's looking at. Schotty CONSTANTLY had a person in motion to give Sanchez a better idea what the defense was in and it still didn't work. As you said, he's consistently inaccurate and erratic. He still throws into triple coverage. A really, really, exceptionally smart move.:rolleyes: It is absolutely true that the teams success is contingent upon Sanchez playing worlds better than how he ended last season. I don't have much faith in him, but I am rooting for a miracle. 2) Not only is McKnight an unproven commodity, he's also very brittle. If the Jets decide to give McKnight more carries they will find out almost immediately that he cannot handle it. The team will be up sh*ts creek without a paddle. My hope is that Ganaway will come up big for us this season, but as you already said he's totally unproven.[/QUOTE] If you listened to the article Jenny just wrote about the new offense you would know that the receivers were locked into their routes, and we kept running the same plays even though we were playing into the defenses hand. Santonio said that many times Mark would be forced into staring down a receiver, because of the play calling, and now they would have the freedom to adjust their routes...so fear not there is still hope.