Sobering Review of Shonn Greene - Page 5 - Jets Insider.com Forums

John_0515 · 06-27-2012, 01:22 PM

[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4501999]How many teams have an everydown RB these days?

Maybe a handful?[/QUOTE]

Probably. But I'm talking about the Jets here. I could care less who any other team (let's give New England as an example :D) has in the backfield.

I don't even think Greene should be the starter. His role is clean up, IMO. He struggles early in games.

Now, mind you this is in Schotty's system, which is not this year. Having seen what he's done, I think he's great as a finisher, but not so much as the starter.

I liked it better when we started LT, and then Greene came in later. He (Greene) should get no more than 20 touches on a good day.

PatsFanTX · 06-27-2012, 01:29 PM

[QUOTE=John_0515;4502002]Probably. But I'm talking about the Jets here. I could care less who any other team (let's give New England as an example :D) has in the backfield.

I don't even think Greene should be the starter. His role is clean up, IMO. He struggles early in games.

Now, mind you this is in Schotty's system, which is not this year. Having seen what he's done, I think he's great as a finisher, but not so much as the starter.

I liked it better when we started LT, and then Greene came in later. He (Greene) should get no more than 20 touches on a good day.[/QUOTE]

For any RB to be an everydown RB in today's NFL he must:

1) Be a very good runner
2) Be a good receiver
3) Be a decent blocker

Not too many RB's can do all 3 effectively. That's why most teams today employ a "RB by Committee approach".

John_0515 · 06-27-2012, 01:30 PM

[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4502013]For any RB to be an everydown RB in today's NFL he must:

1) Be a very good runner
2) Be a good receiver
3) Be a decent blocker

Not too many RB's can do all 3 effectively. That's why most teams today employ a "RB by Committee approach".[/QUOTE]

Greene has 1 of those, at best.

Ray Ray19 · 06-27-2012, 01:34 PM

[QUOTE=John_0515;4501946]Ray, he's very bad at going to where there's daylight. He runs to tacklers in the open field. He hits the hole hard, but lacks that secondary vision, IMO. You know I'm not trying to argue with you, but Greene's a little disappointing in that regard.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, not what I read about the player coming out. I also read reports about how the Jets coaching staff who evaluated the player coming out about his vision an ability to hit the hole.

I also disagree that he's been a disappointment. I just don't see his vision as an issue. The bigger issue for me is his pass receiving, and pass protection blocking on blitz pick-up, he MUST improve in both areas. He has as a receiver, I'd like him to take the next step.

I think some have an unfair evaluation of Greene, he hasn't been the #1 or featured RB in a full time role, he's getting most of the carries, but he's played in a platoon situation, and frankly, I like to see multiple RB's used in a game.

Here is a pre-draft write up:

[URL]http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/shonn-greene?id=79563[/URL]

[QUOTE][B]Analysis[/B] Positives: Stout frame with good overall musculature, but especially in his lower body. Good initial quickness off the snap. Downhill runner who attacks the line of scrimmage. [B]Quick to recognize the hole and takes what the defense gives him. Rare flexibility and use of leverage for a back of his size. Runs with a very low pad level, giving defenders little to hit between his knees and shoulder pads, which is one of the reasons why he bounces off of some many tackles. Very good leg drive to take defenders for extra yardage.[/B] Finishes his runs. Falls forward to gain additional yardage to end each attempt. Good vision for the cutback. Surprisingly quick feet to bounce laterally and accelerate into the open field. Stout pass blocker who will provide a pop to the rusher and gives a good effort. At least adequate hands for the reception. Despite his relatively advanced age, should have fresh legs due to only one season as the starter.[/QUOTE]

sg3 · 06-27-2012, 01:34 PM

pretty funny really to see TX discussing running backs when the only one his pathetics had-- BenJarvisBenLaden left Sucksboro for greener pastures leaving the cheaters NOT with a running back by committee but with a NO running backs at all committee

Ray Ray19 · 06-27-2012, 01:36 PM

[QUOTE=Jordy;4501953]That's wonderful Ray. Gholston was a beast in college and pre-draft too.

I liked Greene in college. Unfortunately. his game hasn't translated to the NFL. The talent's a little bigger, faster and stronger.

[B]You can roll your eyes all you want but the writer nailed it. [/B]

But I don't expect you to be able to accept that. Of course not.[/QUOTE]

I don't know what is more pathetic, the fact that you're butthurt because I rolled my eyes, or the fact that I disagreed with you and you're butthurt about that too...

The writer nailed it... in YOUR opinion...

IMO, the writer is ill-informed, as are some of the fans here.

He was a 1,000 yds rusher last year, and played in a rotation, he is a #1 back that doesn't get the carries some of the bigger stars get. He too also was impacted by subpar play on the OL and due to injuries on the OL. Not sure how the comparison to Gholston makes any sense. When healthy, Greene has produced and has shown very good ability as a RB in the NFL.

So....

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Winstonbiggs · 06-27-2012, 01:38 PM

What's sobering is John Conner, Shon Greene, Joe McKnight and Powell were all drafted in the last 3 years.

Ray Ray19 · 06-27-2012, 01:40 PM

[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4502013]For any RB to be an everydown RB in today's NFL he must:

1) Be a very good runner
2) Be a good receiver
3) Be a decent blocker

Not too many RB's can do all 3 effectively. That's why most teams today employ a "RB by Committee approach".[/QUOTE]

Teams employ a multiple RB committee because the RB position is the position that gets hurt and is at the biggest risk for injury. Teams like to have 2 RB's to spread out the carries, lengthen their effectiveness throughout the season and beyond, and usually like to give defenses more to look at and prepare for.

PatsFanTX · 06-27-2012, 01:43 PM

[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4502019]

Sorry, not what I read about the player coming out. I also read reports about how the Jets coaching staff who evaluated the player coming out about his vision an ability to hit the hole.

Here is a pre-draft write up:

[/QUOTE]

What the hell does pre-draft evaluations have to do with anything?

Green is a 3-year veteran RB who has demonstrated his lack of vision as a NFL RB.

Vernon Gholston also had good pre-draft write-ups as well.

How'd that turn out?

PatsFanTX · 06-27-2012, 01:45 PM

[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4502027]Teams employ a multiple RB committee because the RB position is the position that gets hurt and is at the biggest risk for injury. Teams like to have 2 RB's to spread out the carries, lengthen their effectiveness throughout the season and beyond, and usually like to give defenses more to look at and prepare for.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but teams also use multiple RB's for situational downs (rushing down, receiving down, blocking protection down).

Ray Ray19 · 06-27-2012, 01:45 PM

[QUOTE=Jordy;4501965]LOL. You might as well be prepared to spend the better part of the next hour...or days.[/QUOTE]

Now a post like this is why I respond to YOU the way I do, and with John, there is no such issue.

Not sure where the comment is coming from, I have many times agreed with you on this board, and don't disagree just to disagree. You have this problem though, and I'm not the only one who has picked up on it.

If you weren't such an arrogant douche sometimes, there wouldn't be any issue.

GreenWave · 06-27-2012, 01:46 PM

[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4502019]Sorry, not what I read about the player coming out. I also read reports about how the Jets coaching staff who evaluated the player coming out about his vision an ability to hit the hole.

Here is a pre-draft write up:

[url]http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/shonn-greene?id=79563[/url][/QUOTE]

That's great, but how does this matter after the player has been in the NFL for three seasons?

What have you seen from Greene in his career that counters what the original article was stating, specifically about vision?

The playoffs in '09 were great for him. But if you recall, on both of his long TD runs he ran in a straight line to the end zone. Yeah, he trucked Weddle against SD, but there was nothing in his playoff performances that demonstrated the vision you'd expect from a quality #1 RB.

Winstonbiggs · 06-27-2012, 01:47 PM

[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4502034]Yes, but teams also use multiple RB's for situational downs (rushing down, receiving down, blocking protection down).[/QUOTE]

We have all that, Greene can't catch, McKnight can't run and neither of them can pass protect.

Ray Ray19 · 06-27-2012, 01:48 PM

[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4502031]What the hell does pre-draft evaluations have to do with anything?

Green is a 3-year veteran RB who has demonstrated his lack of vision as a NFL RB.

Vernon Gholston also had good pre-draft write-ups as well.

How'd that turn out?[/QUOTE]

It has everything to do with the comments being made about the player today, they are wrong.

Another ignorant reference and comparison to Gholston. :rolleyes:

NY's stepchild · 06-27-2012, 01:51 PM

Seemed to me that he was out of shape, and he was doing too much thinking out there. If he's in shape, and just hits the hole I still think he's pretty good. He doesn't find the cut backs so he needs to just hit whichever hole he sees. Hopefully they'll get that through his head this year. The blitz pick ups still worry me, but he has improved his pass catching. Still hope they pick up someone.

Ray Ray19 · 06-27-2012, 01:51 PM

[QUOTE=GreenWave;4502036]That's great, but how does this matter after the player has been in the NFL for three seasons?

What have you seen from Greene in his career that counters what the original article was stating, specifically about vision?

The playoffs in '09 were great for him. But if you recall, on both of his long TD runs he ran in a straight line to the end zone. Yeah, he trucked Weddle against SD, but there was nothing in his playoff performances that demonstrated the vision you'd expect from a quality #1 RB.[/QUOTE]

In Green's first year, he didn't get an opportunity until Leon Washington went down and even then was a back-up to Jones, until Jones got banged up later in the year.

In his second year, LT had a very good season and was very effective still as a RB. He really didn't get the reps and the carries.

It wasn't until his 3rd year, last year, that he got a bigger workload, and he produced, despite injuries and subpar play on the OL and and flawed offensive philosophy. Because of poor play overall in the passing game and lacking talent to stretch the field, it hurt the running game in the process and in play-action, still, Greene put up over 1,000 yds and didn't get all of the carries with LT still getting a significant portion of the workload.

Your 3 year argument is flawed.

PatsFanTX · 06-27-2012, 01:54 PM

[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4502039]It has everything to do with the comments being made about the player today, they are wrong.

[/QUOTE]

What was wrong? The pre-draft evaluations?

Certainly, you can't watch Green for 3 years and think he has a great vision as a NFL RB.

Jordy · 06-27-2012, 01:55 PM

[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4502031]What the hell does pre-draft evaluations have to do with anything?

Green is a 3-year veteran RB who has demonstrated his lack of vision as a NFL RB.

Vernon Gholston also had good pre-draft write-ups as well.

How'd that turn out?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=GreenWave;4502036]That's great, but how does this matter after the player has been in the NFL for three seasons?

What have you seen from Greene in his career that counters what the original article was stating, specifically about vision?

The playoffs in '09 were great for him. But if you recall, on both of his long TD runs he ran in a straight line to the end zone. Yeah, he trucked Weddle against SD, but there was nothing in his playoff performances that demonstrated the vision you'd expect from a quality #1 RB.[/QUOTE]

Thank you both for reaffirming what I said which Ray obviously has a hard time understanding.

Ray Ray19 · 06-27-2012, 01:58 PM

[QUOTE=Jordy;4502050]Thank you both for reaffirming what I said which Ray obviously has a hard time understanding.[/QUOTE]

You're quoting Tx as a back-up?

ROFLMAO, are you that depserate?

We both know Tx jumped on that wagon once I got involved. Now Tx is hammering the whole "Greene doesn't have good vision" argument because I disagreed with it. WTF would Tx have seen in the limited number of Jets games he's seen?

Vision is far from Green's issues.

Also, as I pointed out, the 3yr argument against him, is flawed.

Ray Ray19 · 06-27-2012, 01:59 PM

[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4502048]What was wrong? The pre-draft evaluations?

Certainly, you can't watch Green for 3 years and think he has a great vision as a NFL RB.[/QUOTE]

And what about his 3 years and his performances provide you evidence that he doesn't, jackass?

06-27-2012, 01:34 PM	#84
Ray Ray19 Not a SOJF Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 13,959	[QUOTE=John_0515;4501946]Ray, he's very bad at going to where there's daylight. He runs to tacklers in the open field. He hits the hole hard, but lacks that secondary vision, IMO. You know I'm not trying to argue with you, but Greene's a little disappointing in that regard.[/QUOTE] Sorry, not what I read about the player coming out. I also read reports about how the Jets coaching staff who evaluated the player coming out about his vision an ability to hit the hole. I also disagree that he's been a disappointment. I just don't see his vision as an issue. The bigger issue for me is his pass receiving, and pass protection blocking on blitz pick-up, he MUST improve in both areas. He has as a receiver, I'd like him to take the next step. I think some have an unfair evaluation of Greene, he hasn't been the #1 or featured RB in a full time role, he's getting most of the carries, but he's played in a platoon situation, and frankly, I like to see multiple RB's used in a game. Here is a pre-draft write up: [URL]http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/shonn-greene?id=79563[/URL] [QUOTE][B]Analysis[/B] Positives: Stout frame with good overall musculature, but especially in his lower body. Good initial quickness off the snap. Downhill runner who attacks the line of scrimmage. [B]Quick to recognize the hole and takes what the defense gives him. Rare flexibility and use of leverage for a back of his size. Runs with a very low pad level, giving defenders little to hit between his knees and shoulder pads, which is one of the reasons why he bounces off of some many tackles. Very good leg drive to take defenders for extra yardage.[/B] Finishes his runs. Falls forward to gain additional yardage to end each attempt. Good vision for the cutback. Surprisingly quick feet to bounce laterally and accelerate into the open field. Stout pass blocker who will provide a pop to the rusher and gives a good effort. At least adequate hands for the reception. Despite his relatively advanced age, should have fresh legs due to only one season as the starter.[/QUOTE] Last edited by Ray Ray19; 06-27-2012 at 01:44 PM.

06-27-2012, 01:36 PM	#86
Ray Ray19 Not a SOJF Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 13,959	[QUOTE=Jordy;4501953]That's wonderful Ray. Gholston was a beast in college and pre-draft too. I liked Greene in college. Unfortunately. his game hasn't translated to the NFL. The talent's a little bigger, faster and stronger. [B]You can roll your eyes all you want but the writer nailed it. [/B] But I don't expect you to be able to accept that. Of course not.[/QUOTE] I don't know what is more pathetic, the fact that you're butthurt because I rolled my eyes, or the fact that I disagreed with you and you're butthurt about that too... The writer nailed it... in YOUR opinion... IMO, the writer is ill-informed, as are some of the fans here. He was a 1,000 yds rusher last year, and played in a rotation, he is a #1 back that doesn't get the carries some of the bigger stars get. He too also was impacted by subpar play on the OL and due to injuries on the OL. Not sure how the comparison to Gholston makes any sense. When healthy, Greene has produced and has shown very good ability as a RB in the NFL. So.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Last edited by Ray Ray19; 06-27-2012 at 01:38 PM.

06-27-2012, 01:58 PM	#99
Ray Ray19 Not a SOJF Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 13,959	[QUOTE=Jordy;4502050]Thank you both for reaffirming what I said which Ray obviously has a hard time understanding.[/QUOTE] You're quoting Tx as a back-up? ROFLMAO, are you that depserate? We both know Tx jumped on that wagon once I got involved. Now Tx is hammering the whole "Greene doesn't have good vision" argument because I disagreed with it. WTF would Tx have seen in the limited number of Jets games he's seen? Vision is far from Green's issues. Also, as I pointed out, the 3yr argument against him, is flawed. Last edited by Ray Ray19; 06-27-2012 at 02:01 PM.

06-27-2012, 01:22 PM	#81
John_0515 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 21,228	[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4501999]How many teams have an everydown RB these days? Maybe a handful?[/QUOTE] Probably. But I'm talking about the Jets here. I could care less who any other team (let's give New England as an example :D) has in the backfield. I don't even think Greene should be the starter. His role is clean up, IMO. He struggles early in games. Now, mind you this is in Schotty's system, which is not this year. Having seen what he's done, I think he's great as a finisher, but not so much as the starter. I liked it better when we started LT, and then Greene came in later. He (Greene) should get no more than 20 touches on a good day.

06-27-2012, 01:29 PM	#82
PatsFanTX JI Resident Troll Banned Join Date: May 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 52,068	[QUOTE=John_0515;4502002]Probably. But I'm talking about the Jets here. I could care less who any other team (let's give New England as an example :D) has in the backfield. I don't even think Greene should be the starter. His role is clean up, IMO. He struggles early in games. Now, mind you this is in Schotty's system, which is not this year. Having seen what he's done, I think he's great as a finisher, but not so much as the starter. I liked it better when we started LT, and then Greene came in later. He (Greene) should get no more than 20 touches on a good day.[/QUOTE] For any RB to be an everydown RB in today's NFL he must: 1) Be a very good runner 2) Be a good receiver 3) Be a decent blocker Not too many RB's can do all 3 effectively. That's why most teams today employ a "RB by Committee approach".

06-27-2012, 01:30 PM	#83
John_0515 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 21,228	[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4502013]For any RB to be an everydown RB in today's NFL he must: 1) Be a very good runner 2) Be a good receiver 3) Be a decent blocker Not too many RB's can do all 3 effectively. That's why most teams today employ a "RB by Committee approach".[/QUOTE] Greene has 1 of those, at best.

06-27-2012, 01:34 PM	#85
sg3 REX AND THE I-MAN - BACK ON TRACK Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Big Apple, USA Posts: 20,919	pretty funny really to see TX discussing running backs when the only one his pathetics had-- BenJarvisBenLaden left Sucksboro for greener pastures leaving the cheaters NOT with a running back by committee but with a NO running backs at all committee

06-27-2012, 01:38 PM	#87
Winstonbiggs Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 13,105	What's sobering is John Conner, Shon Greene, Joe McKnight and Powell were all drafted in the last 3 years.

06-27-2012, 01:40 PM	#88
Ray Ray19 Not a SOJF Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 13,959	[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4502013]For any RB to be an everydown RB in today's NFL he must: 1) Be a very good runner 2) Be a good receiver 3) Be a decent blocker Not too many RB's can do all 3 effectively. That's why most teams today employ a "RB by Committee approach".[/QUOTE] Teams employ a multiple RB committee because the RB position is the position that gets hurt and is at the biggest risk for injury. Teams like to have 2 RB's to spread out the carries, lengthen their effectiveness throughout the season and beyond, and usually like to give defenses more to look at and prepare for.

06-27-2012, 01:43 PM	#89
PatsFanTX JI Resident Troll Banned Join Date: May 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 52,068	[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4502019] Sorry, not what I read about the player coming out. I also read reports about how the Jets coaching staff who evaluated the player coming out about his vision an ability to hit the hole. Here is a pre-draft write up: [/QUOTE] What the hell does pre-draft evaluations have to do with anything? Green is a 3-year veteran RB who has demonstrated his lack of vision as a NFL RB. Vernon Gholston also had good pre-draft write-ups as well. How'd that turn out?

06-27-2012, 01:45 PM	#90
PatsFanTX JI Resident Troll Banned Join Date: May 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 52,068	[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4502027]Teams employ a multiple RB committee because the RB position is the position that gets hurt and is at the biggest risk for injury. Teams like to have 2 RB's to spread out the carries, lengthen their effectiveness throughout the season and beyond, and usually like to give defenses more to look at and prepare for.[/QUOTE] Yes, but teams also use multiple RB's for situational downs (rushing down, receiving down, blocking protection down).

06-27-2012, 01:46 PM	#92
GreenWave Veteran Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,468	[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4502019]Sorry, not what I read about the player coming out. I also read reports about how the Jets coaching staff who evaluated the player coming out about his vision an ability to hit the hole. Here is a pre-draft write up: [url]http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/shonn-greene?id=79563[/url][/QUOTE] That's great, but how does this matter after the player has been in the NFL for three seasons? What have you seen from Greene in his career that counters what the original article was stating, specifically about vision? The playoffs in '09 were great for him. But if you recall, on both of his long TD runs he ran in a straight line to the end zone. Yeah, he trucked Weddle against SD, but there was nothing in his playoff performances that demonstrated the vision you'd expect from a quality #1 RB.

06-27-2012, 01:47 PM	#93
Winstonbiggs Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 13,105	[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4502034]Yes, but teams also use multiple RB's for situational downs (rushing down, receiving down, blocking protection down).[/QUOTE] We have all that, Greene can't catch, McKnight can't run and neither of them can pass protect.

06-27-2012, 01:48 PM	#94
Ray Ray19 Not a SOJF Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 13,959	[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4502031]What the hell does pre-draft evaluations have to do with anything? Green is a 3-year veteran RB who has demonstrated his lack of vision as a NFL RB. Vernon Gholston also had good pre-draft write-ups as well. How'd that turn out?[/QUOTE] It has everything to do with the comments being made about the player today, they are wrong. Another ignorant reference and comparison to Gholston. :rolleyes:

06-27-2012, 01:51 PM	#95
NY's stepchild Here's hoping that GS3 under center, and Coples on the edge works out. All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hawthorne NJ Posts: 4,856	Seemed to me that he was out of shape, and he was doing too much thinking out there. If he's in shape, and just hits the hole I still think he's pretty good. He doesn't find the cut backs so he needs to just hit whichever hole he sees. Hopefully they'll get that through his head this year. The blitz pick ups still worry me, but he has improved his pass catching. Still hope they pick up someone.

06-27-2012, 01:54 PM	#97
PatsFanTX JI Resident Troll Banned Join Date: May 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 52,068	[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4502039]It has everything to do with the comments being made about the player today, they are wrong. [/QUOTE] What was wrong? The pre-draft evaluations? Certainly, you can't watch Green for 3 years and think he has a great vision as a NFL RB.

06-27-2012, 01:55 PM	#98
Jordy Keeping it real... Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Tårnby, Denmark Posts: 23,145	[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4502031]What the hell does pre-draft evaluations have to do with anything? Green is a 3-year veteran RB who has demonstrated his lack of vision as a NFL RB. Vernon Gholston also had good pre-draft write-ups as well. How'd that turn out?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=GreenWave;4502036]That's great, but how does this matter after the player has been in the NFL for three seasons? What have you seen from Greene in his career that counters what the original article was stating, specifically about vision? The playoffs in '09 were great for him. But if you recall, on both of his long TD runs he ran in a straight line to the end zone. Yeah, he trucked Weddle against SD, but there was nothing in his playoff performances that demonstrated the vision you'd expect from a quality #1 RB.[/QUOTE] Thank you both for reaffirming what I said which Ray obviously has a hard time understanding.

06-27-2012, 01:59 PM	#100
Ray Ray19 Not a SOJF Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 13,959	[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4502048]What was wrong? The pre-draft evaluations? Certainly, you can't watch Green for 3 years and think he has a great vision as a NFL RB.[/QUOTE] And what about his 3 years and his performances provide you evidence that he doesn't, jackass?