Sal P calls out the Jets drafting over the last 5 years.

[Mohegangreen]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

With all the picks you had and missed on you can't say the patriots have had very good drafts. Lucky for every team in the NFL Bellichick the Gm is no where near as good as the head coach.

Patriots are still winning because Tom Brady still there qb and playing at a high level.

Absolutely, he has been a master at compiling draft picks, but thank God he whiffs on most of them

[Brooklyn Jet]

Originally Posted by GuidoYaztremski

I would generally agree with you, except when an offense is purported to be "ground and pound". That would highly elevate the importance of the feature back, no?

Not neccessarily.... putting all your eggs in one basket of a feature back, what happens when that feature back goes down with a fluke injury....you're done.

Ground and pound with a stable of backs you can rotate in and out is insurance against that, and helps make sure everyone is fresh come the end of the season.

[Dcat]

Originally Posted by Mohegangreen

Absolutely, he has been a master at compiling draft picks, but thank God he whiffs on most of them

+1

I used to cringe everytime Belichick stock piled more picks. But he squanders them on no talents most of the time, so I've learned that it really doesn't matter with him. I think this year's whiff will be Chandler Jones, whose lofty status was the product of hype. Undeserved as far as his college production. I do like Hightower though and think he'll be a star.

[Mohegangreen]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn Jet

Not neccessarily.... putting all your eggs in one basket of a feature back, what happens when that feature back goes down with a fluke injury....you're done.

Ground and pound with a stable of backs you can rotate in and out is insurance against that, and helps make sure everyone is fresh come the end of the season.

I'd love to have an AP myself

[NY's stepchild]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

If you luck out at drafting that franchise Qb , you can get away with missing on a lot of picks in the draft. Your still going to be an elite team as long as that Qb able to play at that level.
Just imagine how good the patriots could have been if they drafted better with all those picks they have accumulated over the years.(with Brady at top of his game)

I was talking more about teams that have drafted well over the last couple of years.

Yeah well I was talking to a troll, but you're right. Belicheck has wasted a great QB. If not for the actual team they had when they first discovered Brady, and the cheating of course, they would be a lot more like the Colts.

If you go back and check, you'll find we've done very well with our limited draft choices, even if we did waste a bunch. No teams draft great anymore, because everyone has the same access to information as everyone else, and the salary cap keeps all teams from having quality depth.

The Raven have arguably the best GM in football, but they don't have the QB, so it only takes them so far.

The Steelers are no better at drafting than anyone else. Tell me who they drafted that was so great? They get rid of players when the time is right, and they have a great system, and an aura about them. They also chose a pretty good QB, and safety.

The Packers seem to be the best run team in the NFL, and they took Rodgers whey after Alex Smith, when no one had any idea he was going to be as good as he is. Is it the team, or is Rodgers just as great as he looks? He didn't look so good against the Jets as I remember.

The Giants are very hard to figure. They have drafted a lot of DEs and hit very big on a couple, but what else have they done especially well? They gave up way too much for Eli. On paper they should have kept Rivers, but they win Super bowls. They either miss the playoffs, or just squeak in, and then beat the heavily favored Bay State Patriots.

So you have 4 teams that are elite, and the Giants. The Jets are in the next tier, and whether they stay there or not all depends on the QB. The draft is not our problem. Not having an elite QB is. We'll see what happens with Sporano this year. Just not being Shotty is a great thing. He has had success as an OC, albeit limited, and he was hand picked by Parcells to be the Fish's head coach. He then changed the mentality there bringing a 1 win team to a division title in his first year. I think that's what our offense needs the most. A personality big enough to challenge Rex's on defense.

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by Dcat

+1

I used to cringe everytime Belichick stock piled more picks. But he squanders them on no talents most of the time, so I've learned that it really doesn't matter with him. I think this year's whiff will be Chandler Jones, whose lofty status was the product of hype. Undeserved as far as his college production. I do like Hightower though and think he'll be a star.

I don't think we can kill the 2012 patriots picks and say they will be bust. We just don't know yet either way. The Philosophy this year was a lot different than in years past. ( I think Bellichick was fed up trying to do it Jimmy Johnson way- which he wasn't as good at)

[NY's stepchild]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

I don't think we can kill the 2012 patriots picks and say they will be bust. We just don't know yet either way. The Philosophy this year was a lot different than in years past. ( I think Bellichick was fed up trying to do it Jimmy Johnson way- which he wasn't as good at)

I think Belicheck's philosophy has changed because he sees the end is near. The future is now, and when it all comes crashing down he plans on being out of there with Brady. You have to figure 3 more years would be a good guess, until Brady declines, so stockpiling picks at this point would be pointless.

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn Jet

Not neccessarily.... putting all your eggs in one basket of a feature back, what happens when that feature back goes down with a fluke injury....you're done.

Ground and pound with a stable of backs you can rotate in and out is insurance against that, and helps make sure everyone is fresh come the end of the season.

There isn't many team that rely on one back anymore. Everyone has some form of running back by committee .

IT all about forming the most versatile RB committee and having guys that can do it all. ( having guys that can take it to the house from anywhere whether its a run or pass) Not one dimensional running backs who can only run or catch. But having a lot of Rb's that can run, Catch and Block.

So a defense (top defenses) can stop the run. They take out your running game, no big deal as your able to use those same running backs as receivers threats. (pick up the yards in a different way) That what You want to have with a running back in today football.

[Paradis]

Originally Posted by PatsFanTX

Gronkowski, Hernandez, Mankins, Chung, Mayo and Solder all say hi.

Hey captain crunch - this is one topic, the pats get to eat more crow than Brandon Lee. Don't even for a fcking second drop names and act like it ain't no thang. The pats have the highest bust rate of early picks than any another team over the last half decade.

Ron Brace, Brandon Tate, Darius Butler, Chad Jackson, Taylor Price, Devin McCourty (sir burnt alot) Terrence Wheatley, Brandon Merriweather., Shawn Crable.. and more all say good bye.


A case could be made (a pretty easy one too) that with those billion picks NE's had, no other team has been worse at drafting defense and WRs than Bellischit.

[Mohegangreen]

Originally Posted by Paradis

Hey captain crunch - this is one topic, the pats get to eat more crow than Brandon Lee. Don't even for a fcking second drop names and act like it ain't no thang. The pats have the highest bust rate of early picks than any another team over the last half decade.

Ron Brace, Brandon Tate, Darius Butler, Chad Jackson, Taylor Price, Devin McCourty (sir burnt alot) Terrence Wheatley, Brandon Merriweather., Shawn Crable.. and more all say good bye.


A case could be made (a pretty easy one too) that with those billion picks NE's had, no other team has been worse at drafting defense and WRs than Bellischit.

Touche :-)

[Sroger]

Originally Posted by Paradis

Hey captain crunch - this is one topic, the pats get to eat more crow than Brandon Lee. Don't even for a fcking second drop names and act like it ain't no thang. The pats have the highest bust rate of early picks than any another team over the last half decade.

Ron Brace, Brandon Tate, Darius Butler, Chad Jackson, Taylor Price, Devin McCourty (sir burnt alot) Terrence Wheatley, Brandon Merriweather., Shawn Crable.. and more all say good bye.


A case could be made (a pretty easy one too) that with those billion picks NE's had, no other team has been worse at drafting defense and WRs than Bellischit.

Who do you think is the best player the Jets have drafted since David Harris in 2007? Can you name one IMPACT player because I sure can't. Wilkerson could be decent but you are in need of a major reality check as I think a case could easily be made that the Jets have been amongst the worst drafters in the NFL the last 4-5 years. 2 blown picks in the top 6 in 2008 and 2009 yet you are picking on the Patriot's flops in the late second and third round all while declaring two guys who made pro bowls "busts"

So, with regard to your point that NE has one of the highest bust rates of "early picks", just curious whether the fact that the Jets botched chances to grab two franchise players in 2008 in 2009 counts the same as the Patriots blowing third rounders, where its essentially a crap shoot across the league anyways, on Tate, Crable, Wheatly and Price?

[patman]

Originally Posted by Paradis

Hey captain crunch - this is one topic, the pats get to eat more crow than Brandon Lee. Don't even for a fcking second drop names and act like it ain't no thang. The pats have the highest bust rate of early picks than any another team over the last half decade.

Ron Brace, Brandon Tate, Darius Butler, Chad Jackson, Taylor Price, Devin McCourty (sir burnt alot) Terrence Wheatley, Brandon Merriweather., Shawn Crable.. and more all say good bye.


A case could be made (a pretty easy one too) that with those billion picks NE's had, no other team has been worse at drafting defense and WRs than Bellischit.

First of all the patriots only get 7 picks every year just like every other team,
the pats don't get any more than any other team. That is BB philosophy (IMO) the nfl draft is a crap shoot and your going to miss on 1/2 of the picks.
so get more picks by trading down.

The patriots draft philosophy did not change this last off season. They lost Anderson and most likely Carter and Spikes for the first 6 games of the season.

BB is not the best drafter of talent, but he does not have to be all he has to be is the best in the division.

[Mohegangreen]

Originally Posted by patman

First of all the patriots only get 7 picks every year just like every other team,
the pats don't get any more than any other team. That is BB philosophy (IMO) the nfl draft is a crap shoot and your going to miss on 1/2 of the picks.
so get more picks by trading down.

The patriots draft philosophy did not change this last off season. They lost Anderson and most likely Carter and Spikes for the first 6 games of the season.

Now who's the homer?

[NY's stepchild]

Originally Posted by Sroger

Who do you think is the best player the Jets have drafted since David Harris in 2007? Can you name one IMPACT player because I sure can't. Wilkerson could be decent but you are in need of a major reality check as I think a case could easily be made that the Jets have been amongst the worst drafters in the NFL the last 4-5 years. 2 blown picks in the top 6 in 2008 and 2009 yet you are picking on the Patriot's flops in the late second and third round all while declaring two guys who made pro bowls "busts"

So, with regard to your point that NE has one of the highest bust rates of "early picks", just curious whether the fact that the Jets botched chances to grab two franchise players in 2008 in 2009 counts the same as the Patriots blowing third rounders, where its essentially a crap shoot across the league anyways, on Tate, Crable, Wheatly and Price?

The Pats had 1st round picks they decided to turn them into all those 3rd round picks so you are the one in need of a reality check. The Pats haven't won a SB since they got caught cheating, and they have probably the best QB of our generation. You do the math.

[NY's stepchild]

Originally Posted by patman

First of all the patriots only get 7 picks every year just like every other team,
the pats don't get any more than any other team. That is BB philosophy (IMO) the nfl draft is a crap shoot and your going to miss on 1/2 of the picks.
so get more picks by trading down.

The patriots draft philosophy did not change this last off season. They lost Anderson and most likely Carter and Spikes for the first 6 games of the season.

BB is not the best drafter of talent, but he does not have to be all he has to be is the best in the division.

If they missed on half their picks they'd have won the SB every year of the last decade. They missed on 95%.

[Mohegangreen]

Originally Posted by NY's stepchild

The Pats had 1st round picks they decided to turn them into all those 3rd round picks so you are the one in need of a reality check. The Pats haven't won a SB since they got caught cheating, and they have probably the best QB of our generation. You do the math.

Damn Straight, Brutha...

[Sroger]

Originally Posted by NY's stepchild

The Pats had 1st round picks they decided to turn them into all those 3rd round picks so you are the one in need of a reality check. The Pats haven't won a SB since they got caught cheating, and they have probably the best QB of our generation. You do the math.

My question is three parts:

1. Who is the best player the Jets have drafted since David Harris? There are lots of good options. You have Sanchez, Gholston, Greene, Kyle Wilson, Ducasse, McKnight. Slauson, Ellis.

2. What teams have yielded the fewest impact players in the draft between 2008 and 2011? I would have to put the Jets in this discussion.

3. What teams have blown the most top ten picks since 2008?

[ASG0531]

If two plays go the other way the Pats have a Lombardi every other year. IThey're contenders every single year, and sometimes variance rears its ugly head. Literally, they have more championships, conference championships, division titles, and wins than any team in the NFL over the past decade. wouldn't exactly call that a "waste" of Brady's talents.

The Pats have been trying to completely rebuild a defense since 2007, and guess what... it's hard. Especially when you are never drafting anywhere near the top of the 1st round.

I love these discussions, because everyone takes it for granted that the Pats are going to collapse after Brady, and are waiting like jackals. I can't wait to see how mad the haters are going to be when the Pats are still competing for division titles after he's gone. There will be so many Jets fans high up on ledges that they're going to have to hire more street-cleaning crews in New York.

[John_0515]

Originally Posted by Sroger

Who do you think is the best player the Jets have drafted since David Harris in 2007? Can you name one IMPACT player because I sure can't. Wilkerson could be decent but you are in need of a major reality check as I think a case could easily be made that the Jets have been amongst the worst drafters in the NFL the last 4-5 years. 2 blown picks in the top 6 in 2008 and 2009 yet you are picking on the Patriot's flops in the late second and third round all while declaring two guys who made pro bowls "busts"

So, with regard to your point that NE has one of the highest bust rates of "early picks", just curious whether the fact that the Jets botched chances to grab two franchise players in 2008 in 2009 counts the same as the Patriots blowing third rounders, where its essentially a crap shoot across the league anyways, on Tate, Crable, Wheatly and Price?

So you're saying that the player has to have impacted the team already, otherwise he's a bust? And you're not going by Wilkerson, so essentially 2009 and 2010? Or can we include former coaches when talking about the Patriots drafts?

Nice post, glad to have you on JI. Patriot strong.

[Sroger]

Originally Posted by John_0515

So you're saying that the player has to have impacted the team already, otherwise he's a bust? And you're not going by Wilkerson, so essentially 2009 and 2010? Or can we include former coaches when talking about the Patriots drafts?

Nice post, glad to have you on JI. Patriot strong.

I'm responding to Paradis' point that the Patriots drafting is amongst the worst the last few years. Honestly, between 2008 and 2011, has their been a team in the NFL that has yielded less talent than the Jets in the draft? I think Wilkerson could be solid- I excluded him more for the effect of illustrating that in those 4 years, outside of Wilkerson, the Jets have been pretty terrible.