Obamacare - The Storm is Coming

[chiefst2000]

Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs

There are 1000's of hospitals in the US I wouldn't consider getting serious surgery in let alone having to go in for a serious illness including big name hospitals in the tri-state area.

We have some great facilities as does most of the Western world and Japan. We also have some of the worst medical care in the world going on in hospitals that people think are wonderful until they or a loved one gets checked in.

I have had some awful experiences with care very recently, it was a wake up call.

Sloan Kettering, The Mayo Clinic, Saint Jude, all the best in the world in their areas of expertise. This is pointless. Obamacare is horrible policy regardless. It costs more money, adds new taxes, adds new deficits and leads to lower quality and access to care.

[PlumberKhan]

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

Of course our medical system is the highest quality in the world.

But PK is going in for surgery next month to fix what our awesome system f*cked up 10 years ago....a simple broken wrist.

Chiefs world. Party time. Excellent.

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by PlumberKhan

But PK is going in for surgery next month to fix what our awesome system f*cked up 10 years ago....a simple broken wrist.

Chiefs world. Party time. Excellent.

Was that the one you walked away from unpaid, or the one you didn't feel like paying so ignored?

I always get that mixed up when talking to you.



(P.S. Good luck with the wrist)

[PlumberKhan]

Originally Posted by Warfish

Was that the one you walked away from unpaid, or the one you didn't feel like paying so ignored?

I always get that mixed up when talking to you.



(P.S. Good luck with the wrist)

lolz...no, that was my appendix. And I paid most of it and made DAMN sure to pay the anesthesiologist 100%.

No...my wrist was f*cked because my "insurance" company insisted that they set the break instead of the surgery the doctor was advocating. The night I broke it, the doc came in and told me "you should be leaving here with an 'erector set' on your arm...but the insurance company is balking. Be warned...you'll probably need additional surgery months AND years from now".....

My problem was that the day of my accident didn't coincide with the vacation plans of my HMO's covered orthopedic surgeon....






*my scheduled surgery is to shave an 1/8th inch off of my ulna bone (I broke the radius bone).



Looks like fun.... 2:55 is the goods.....

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by PlumberKhan

lolz...no, that was my appendix. And I paid most of it and made DAMN sure to pay the anesthesiologist 100%.

No...my wrist was f*cked because my "insurance" company insisted that they set the break instead of the surgery the doctor was advocating. The night I broke it, the doc came in and told me "you should be leaving here with an 'erector set' on your arm...but the insurance company is balking. Be warned...you'll probably need additional surgery months AND years from now".....

My problem was that the day of my accident didn't coincide with the vacation plans of my HMO's covered orthopedic surgeon....

I don't doubt your honesty.

I do doubt your doctors of years gone by tbqh.

/shrug

I too have lived under an HMO for almost my whole life. Never, ever, had a single thing denied or lesser-treated, and I've had all sorts of issues. Every test, some horibly expensive, covered without fail or complaint.

If he said that, maybe you should have said "right, then I'm GETTING my surgry then" and made it happen. Greasy wheel and all that.

Who knows.

[PlumberKhan]

Originally Posted by Warfish

If he said that, maybe you should have said "right, then I'm GETTING my surgry then" and made it happen. Greasy wheel and all that.

Who knows.

I was 25....didn't know any better.

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by PlumberKhan

I was 25....didn't know any better.

If I say "you should have" it'll only come across as mean, and I don't want to be mean.

I do hope the fix works for you though brofist.

[PlumberKhan]

Originally Posted by Warfish

If I say "you should have" it'll only come across as mean, and I don't want to be mean.

I do hope the fix works for you though brofist.

i Know. it's all Good.

I'm looking forwqard to the new totally awesome scar. And the pain meds.

[JetPotato]

Originally Posted by PlumberKhan

i Know. it's all Good.

I'm looking forwqard to the new totally awesome scar. And the pain meds.

Sharing is caring

[MnJetFan]

This isn't just a healthcare issue. It is a government mandate, it is an insurance issue and a doctors greed issue (not all doctors). If you think the government is the fix to all these issues you are going to be shocked. The government causes the problems they don't fix them.

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by PlumberKhan

i Know. it's all Good.

I'm looking forwqard to the new totally awesome scar. And the pain meds.

Scars rule.

I have a huge one on my hand, although how I got it is an embarassing story......I just don't tell it, lol. I let the scar speak for itself, it's much cooler that way.

And lets be honest, I need all the help I can get in that dept.

[kennyo7]

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

Sloan Kettering, The Mayo Clinic, Saint Jude, all the best in the world in their areas of expertise. This is pointless. Obamacare is horrible policy regardless. It costs more money, adds new taxes, adds new deficits and leads to lower quality and access to care.

I agree that Obamacare is not the solution. A public option payed by tax dollars is.

Guys and St. Thomas in UK, Royal Cancer Hospital in UK, Helios Klinken Group in Germany, Leids University Medical Center in Belgium, Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Klinik Hirslanden in Zurich, UMC Freiburg in Germany, JW Goethe/University Hospital in Frankfurt are just some of the best European Medical institutes that rival the best US has to offer in both research and cutting edge care.

Pick up any medical journal today and you will see some of the largest and best clinical trials are coming from Europe not the USA.

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by kennyo7

Pick up any medical journal today and you will see some of the largest and best clinical trials are coming from Europe not the USA.

Can you give us laymen some specific examples? Some well-known and/or vital new medications and/or medical equipment of import that was developed and invented in Europe, not the USA?

I always find specifics help an argument best.

As one with a very unwell Mom in the UK system, I can see the positives to both sides. Without the UK System of coverage for all, my Mom may not still be with us today.

[kennyo7]

Originally Posted by Warfish

Can you give us laymen some specific examples? Some well-known and/or vital new medications and/or medical equipment of import that was developed and invented in Europe, not the USA?

I always find specifics help an argument best.

As one with a very unwell Mom in the UK system, I can see the positives to both sides. Without the UK System of coverage for all, my Mom may not still be with us today.

Sure:

In Vitro Fertilization (UK), MRI (UK), discovery of Apoptosis-programmed cell death which plays huge role in cancer(UK), discovery of cyclin-CDK proteins which regulate cell cycle also vital in understanding cancer (UK), discovery of cell mediated immune system (switzerland), Cardiac catheterization (Germany), EKG (Netherlands), discovery of HIV virus(France), discovery that HPV is directly implicated in cervical cancer(Germany).....just to name a few.

No one denies the great discoveries in medicine that have been made in the USA. But only an ignoramus would doubt the important role Europe has played and continues to play in medical research

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by kennyo7

Sure:

In Vitro Fertilization (UK)

From wiki:

There was a transient biochemical pregnancy reported by Australian Foxton School researchers in 1953. John Rock (an American working in the US) was the first to extract an intact fertilised egg.[56] The first pregnancy achieved through in vitro human fertilisation of a human oocyte was reported in The Lancet from the Monash University (AUS) team[57] in 1973, although it lasted only a few days and would today be called a biochemical pregnancy.

There was also an ectopic pregnancy reported by Patrick Steptoe and Robert Edwards in 1976. In 1977, Steptoe and Edwards successfully carried out a pioneering conception which resulted in the birth of the world's first baby to be conceived by IVF, Louise Brown on 25 July 1978, in Oldham General Hospital, Greater Manchester, UK.[58][59][60]

So pioneered by the Aussies and an American, improved by the Brits.

MRI (UK)

From wiki:

In the 1950s, Herman Carr (an American working in the US) reported on the creation of a one-dimensional MRI image.[15] Paul Lauterbur (an American working in the US) expanded on Carr's technique and developed a way to generate the first MRI images, in 2D and 3D, using gradients. In 1973, Lauterbur published the first nuclear magnetic resonance image.[16][17] and the first cross-sectional image of a living mouse was published in January 1974.[18]

Nuclear magnetic resonance imaging is a relatively new technology first developed at the University of Nottingham, England. Peter Mansfield, a physicist and professor at the university, then developed a mathematical technique that would allow scans to take seconds rather than hours and produce clearer images than Lauterbur had.

Sounds like the U.S. invented it, and the Brits developed it further, more time efficiently.

No one denies the great discoveries in medicine that have been made in the USA. But only an ignoramus would doubt the important role Europe has played and continues to play in medical research

As it should be right? After all, Europe has roughly as many people as we have to draw upon, and a far stronger collectivist/public welfare tradition, we would assume they would have more public research gains than us, given their investments, right?

In any event, not looking to debate per se, was more curious. As I've said, despite beign against it here in teh State, without collectivist Healthcare in the UK, my Mom might be dead today. Of course, given the low quality (in my ignorant opinion) for her there, she could also be far more healthy if she'd been treated here. Who knows (I'm sure you'll say you do, lol!)

[parafly]

Originally Posted by Warfish

Can you give us laymen some specific examples? Some well-known and/or vital new medications and/or medical equipment of import that was developed and invented in Europe, not the USA?

Peyton Manning going to Europe for stem cell treatment.

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by parafly

Peyton Manning going to Europe for stem cell treatment.

On a moral basis, not a scientific/medical.

I'm sure a good Aryan like Peyton could get a number of things in Ds Reich circa 1938 they could not in the U.S. at that time as well.

[kennyo7]

Originally Posted by parafly

Peyton Manning going to Europe for stem cell treatment.

Typical Ignorance.
I have a patient who went to Germany for a Bone Marrow Transplant for Idiopathic Myelofibrosis 12 years ago because it would not be done here in the USA. He went to Sloan, Mayo and MD Anderson and none of these place would transplant him. Went to Germany and now 12 years later he remains disease free.

Many Americans go to Europe for cutting edge therapy that is simply not available in the states. Most physicians are fully aware of this (many send them). But unfortunately there are too many dummies who dont know this. These are the imbeciles who think that cutting edge medicine is available only in the USA and whenever are discussing the healthcare mess in the USA use the same ignorant statement "look at how many people come to the USA to get treated" .

[kennyo7]

Originally Posted by Warfish

On a moral basis, not a scientific/medical.

I'm sure a good Aryan like Peyton could get a number of things in Ds Reich circa 1938 they could not in the U.S. at that time as well.

Just like many African Americans did in the USA in the 1930s

[JetPotato]

Originally Posted by kennyo7

Typical Ignorance.
I have a patient who went to Germany for a Bone Marrow Transplant for Idiopathic Myelofibrosis 12 years ago because it would not be done here in the USA. He went to Sloan, Mayo and MD Anderson and none of these place would transplant him. Went to Germany and now 12 years later he remains disease free.

Many Americans go to Europe for cutting edge therapy that is simply not available in the states. Most physicians are fully aware of this (many send them). But unfortunately there are too many dummies who dont know this. These are the imbeciles who think that cutting edge medicine is available only in the USA and whenever are discussing the healthcare mess in the USA use the same ignorant statement "look at how many people come to the USA to get treated" .

This speaks far more to the failings of the FDA than it does to the quality of health care development by Americans