The offensive line still a huge question mark

[FijiJet]

Originally Posted by Kentucky Jet

Agreed. But I would add that the entire OL was out of synch last year. Too many fans want to blame only one player. Brick was only decent and actually gave up more sacks then Hunter. Moore took time to round into playing shape and was not dominant early on. Slauson was injured and played with his arm in a sling. The fans also forget or did not know that Sanchez had a bad wing and was not himself either last year. Perhaps he contributed to the problems a wee bit and vice versa! It was a TEAM thing!


This is a new year. I trust in the judgement of Sparano and REX. They do know what it takes to do a good job on the OL. They did not panic nor should the fans. They trust in Hunter et al and I think I'd put more faith in their judgement then most fans. They can and do make mistakes. they are human but I go along with their judgement at this point. I am sure that if they see Hunter struggling in camp, the situation will be handled. They do not need fans telling them what to do.

Very good points raised. Thanks man!

[JetsCrazey]

How can this be a ground-and-pound team with an undersized RT, a supposed pass-blocking tackle who can't even pass block well?

On top of that we have a 1-speed running back who probably shouldn't be a full-time starter.

Only Tebow can save us now (as a running back, that is. I'm cool with Sanchez).

[sameoldjets]

at this point it doesn't even matter if sparano is a better coach than schitty (he is) because the whole offense will be trying to impress the new boss. ducasse will now have a whole training camp under a real oline offensive coordinator and he will do much better. same goes for hunter. schitty just left him out on an island. sometimes he played very well and sometimes he got beaten bad. and let's not forget that brick didn't have a really good year either. that and mangold's early injury really hurt the oline last season. assuming the oline stays healthy, hunter will do much better as will the rest of the starters. throw in ducasse and a couple of other guys for depth and the oline will be fine. get sanchez to make faster decisions (or get holmes to want the ball) and we could be looking at a really special jets team.

[JetsNeedNewton]

[QUOTE=ASH_1962;4512234]It is posts like this that make me want to quit coming here to JI and just abstain from reading and posting at all here. Why do you or anyone else care about thread starting, moreover, why do you care if the guy is (as you put it) "trolling"? If you do not like the thread or post, do not respond to it. Simple, isn't it?

This is supposed to be a place where people can ask questions, express thoughts and concerns, is it not? QUOTE]

Couldn't agree more... seeing the word dump immediately equates to some as$ho!e posting.

Just STFU and move on.

[patman]

The question on the Jets line is depth, Slausen and Moore are both playing for contracts and that should keep them focused.

At least this year they picked up Heyer, While a Jag on his best day he is an improvement over what Ducasse and Hunter did for the jets last year. Does anyone know if he took snaps at LT or right during the mini camp?

[lamont_jordan_rules]

... our starting RT will still be added from another teams TC cut ...

... other 4 spots on the OL are good ...











l_j_r

Originally Posted by Jordy

Food for thought.

Our starting RT may not currently be on the roster.

... hhhmmmm, good food ... i better think that over ... ...






l_j_r

[NY2FLDWC85]

I'm not sure how our offensive line will respond this up coming season, but I do know that D'Brickashaw Ferugson has been a Franchise LT for us dating back to 2006 and has never missed a single game since being drafted into the league. His run blocking ability has always been questioned (although he's improved in that regard when compared to his first two-three seasons), but his overall ability to protect the quarterback's blind size has never been questioned. He's one of the strongest pass protecting left tackles around. Yes, he struggled last season and had an off year, but there's no reason to believe that a focused Ferguson won't (and/or can't) rebound/bounce back stronger than ever; he's only 28 years of age while enjoying the prime years of his NFL career. There's a strong reason why Brick has been named to 3 Pro-Bowls throughout his first 6 years, and that's because he's a Franchise LT when in regards to protecting his quarterbacks blind side with strong pass protection ability.

Then we have Nick Mangold. It all starts up front with one of the leagues strongest overall Centers. Since the departure of Kevin Mawae, we've yet to miss a single beat with Mangold anchoring our offensive line. He's since became a 3 time All-Pro and has been selected to 4 Pro-Bowls. Like Ferguson, he's only 28 years of age while enjoying his NFL golden years. Last year Mangold battled through a high-ankle sprain, which isn't pretty, but this isn't a Dan Coppen situation who broke his fibula during week one of the regular season. I may be wrong, but I believe that Mangold injured his ankle during week two against the Jaguars, missed both the Oakland and Baltimore disasters before returning against the Patriots for yet another offensive disaster. It may have taken Mangold (starting with the return from injury against the Patriots) a good 3-4 weeks before returning to pre-injury form, but he did recover moving forward. With a full offseason, training camp and preseason? Nick Mangold will, without question, head into the season 100% (both physically and mentally). Because of this, we shouldn't question Mangold's ability to land his 5th invite to Honolulu while also being selected to his 4th All-Pro team. I'm not a betting man, but I'll bet that he'll make a return to that list of top 100 NFL players.

Brandon Moore has been one of the most underrated Jets that I've seen over the past 20 years. He's getting up there in age, but for an offensive lineman, at the age of 32 I wouldn't consider him as being "old". As a fan base, we can't forget, that Moore was recovering from offseason hip surgery. That's not the case heading into our up coming season. He's only been to one pro bowl despite the fact that he's been one of the most productive RG's dating back to 2004, the year where Curtis Martin was the NFL's Rushing champion. 2004 was his first year starting, and he's continued to improve ever since. Dating back to 2004, he's been a road grader for 3 top 5 rushing attacks (04, 09 and 2010). 3 years of ranking top 5 in average yards per rushing attempt as well (04, 08 and 09). Being a road grader is nothing new to Brandon Moore, and now that he's no longer recovering from offseason hip surgery, I fully expect for Moore (at the age of 32) to return to previous form over the next two seasons. During the 09 season, he was an absolute monster and one of the key reasons why our offensive rushing attack broke an all-time franchise record for most rushing yards during a single season. I'm anxious to see a healthy Brandon Moore return to the football field. As a fan base, I believe we all should be in full support of Moore returning to full strength. He's earned that right of our trust/faith and confidence over the years. Hopefully Wayne Hunter playing alongside Moore (with help from our TE and/or FB) will become beneficial to Hunter himself.

As long as Ferguson, Mangold and Moore return to previous form? We'll feature one of the leagues strongest offensive lines. As long as Ferguson and Mangold return to form as a franchise LT and all-pro Center? Matt Slauson will benefit greatly moving forward. Slauson played injured/wounded inside of the trenches last season (playing with his arm inside of a sling). Everyone should expect an improved Slauson heading into 2012. As a second year player / first year starter during the 2010 season, Slauson was a piece to an offensive line that not only ranked top 5 in rushing, but also landed an appearance/trip to an AFC Championship Game. Two keys to Slauson are A.) Playing with a healthy shoulder and B.) Playing between (in the middle of) two veteran offensive lineman in Ferguson and Mangold. Slauson may not be an All-Pro, or even a Pro-Bowler for that matter, but he doesn't have to be, as long as he's productive and doesn't commit too many holding/false start penalties, I believe we'll be just fine at the LG position.

My true concerns are in regards to our A.) RT position with Wayne Hunter returning and B.) Our depth in Vladimir Ducasse, Caleb Schlauderaff and Austin Howard. These are true concerns. Hopefully we don't find out about Howard. That'll mean someone either went down due to injury or all of Hunter, Vlad and Caleb underperformed. Howard is an undrrafted 3rd year player who (I'm honestly not sure) may have never started an NFL game.

The only hope I have in regards to Wayne Hunter, would have to be the experience that he gained as a 1st year starter last season. Hopefully, during the offseason, he's able to watch tape and correct his mistakes. Hopefully he can work with our coaching staff in order to learn from awful 2011 mistakes. That's my only hope, is that he'll head into the season as a second year starter knowing (both physically and mentally) what to expect as an NFL starting RT. There is hope though, all you have to do is go back and re-visit the 2010 season after Woody went down. Hunter stepped up and filled in nicely. I'd also have to throw in John Conner as an offensive concern. I think the loss of a HOF lead blocking fullback in Richardson was an underrated topic of discussion last season (and still is in my opinion). Our run game would have struggled with or without Richardson, but I believe Richardson would have done a better job of leading the way for backs such as Greene and Tomlinson. Hopefully Conner can improve his run blocking ability, because that could go a long way in regards to having a successful rushing attack.

[DDNYjets]

[sg3]

gloom doom gloom doom, the sky is falling, the sky is falling....


This message is hidden because DDNYjets is on your ignore list.

[NY's stepchild]

The fact that every lineman struggled would lead you to believe that the scheme was to blame. I just want to see them break the huddle get up to the line and snap the ball like they know what they're doing out there. That's supposed to be the offense's advantage. They know when the snap is coming, and where they're going. For some reason they didn't look that way most of the time last year. Did you ever notice that when we are getting pressure on a QB that they all the sudden start getting the ball out quickly. Yes most of the time that leads to incompletions, but the QB doesn't get killed, and we don't rack up the sacks, and ints. I'm not sure how even the SOJFs don't see this. When our line is getting beat, we keep running the same slow developing plays, and no max protect. We need a coordinator that will run plays to get us back into rhythm, not get plays in late and have us running around trying to figure out where we're supposed to line up. If the coordinator is unsure of himself, then how's the offense going to respond to adversity? I know you'll say that I'm making excuses, but you can choose to blame everyone on offense, or the guy leading them. I know the defense loves to see the offense looking around to be sure of what their assignment is, and seeing that clock tick down to 5,4,3

[sg3]

agreed


all that pre snap motion and running around that Sch1ttenheimer loved so much caused 1) the offensive line to be frozen in place waiting for the snap 2) allowed the DL to know exactly when the ball was going to be snapped (i.e the last second) and 3) confused our receivers more than it ever confused the defensive coverage...

hopefully Sparano brings a more fast paced, more vertical and more straight ahead offensive game plan.

You have to feel sorry for Sam Bradford though

[NY's stepchild]

Originally Posted by sg3

agreed


all that pre snap motion and running around that Sch1ttenheimer loved so much caused 1) the offensive line to be frozen in place waiting for the snap 2) allowed the DL to know exactly when the ball was going to be snapped (i.e the last second) and 3) confused our receivers more than it ever confused the defensive coverage...

hopefully Sparano brings a more fast paced, more vertical and more straight ahead offensive game plan.

You have to feel sorry for Sam Bradford though

More than the motion is how late the plays came in like he was trying to decide what to do, and maybe when they talk about the verbiage they mean that they have to decode it, and it's unclear that everyone is running the same play. they just seemed unsure of themselves. Not sure exactly why, but I hope Sparano can fix that at least. I think it will make all the difference.

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by NY's stepchild

The fact that every lineman struggled would lead you to believe that the scheme was to blame. I just want to see them break the huddle get up to the line and snap the ball like they know what they're doing out there. That's supposed to be the offense's advantage. They know when the snap is coming, and where they're going. For some reason they didn't look that way most of the time last year. Did you ever notice that when we are getting pressure on a QB that they all the sudden start getting the ball out quickly. Yes most of the time that leads to incompletions, but the QB doesn't get killed, and we don't rack up the sacks, and ints. I'm not sure how even the SOJFs don't see this. When our line is getting beat, we keep running the same slow developing plays, and no max protect. We need a coordinator that will run plays to get us back into rhythm, not get plays in late and have us running around trying to figure out where we're supposed to line up. If the coordinator is unsure of himself, then how's the offense going to respond to adversity? I know you'll say that I'm making excuses, but you can choose to blame everyone on offense, or the guy leading them. I know the defense loves to see the offense looking around to be sure of what their assignment is, and seeing that clock tick down to 5,4,3

JMO That's a cop out. No JEt fan had a problem with the tempo of the offense or design of the plays when the results were great.(why didn't you have that same problem in 2009 and 2010 with the offense) . That oline was one of the best in 2009 and 2010 who were doing the same things that last year unit was doing, just being more successful doing it. (starting the same five olineman as year before that went to afc championship)

The Oline doesn't perform the same in 2011 and people have to find excuses(point the finger) why the oline and offense didn't do as well. Maybe the oline just had a bad year or the fact that it isn't as good as in years past.(some players on that oline maybe are starting to slip) .

Jets have two very big pieces on oline. LT and Center. You have those positions filled with top talent and your oline will always be pretty good. It much easier to fill those other three positions on the oline when you have those two premier positions locked down.

JMo That what you should be counting on not tempo and play design being the reason the Jet oline bounces back in 2012. Tempo and play design can't make Chicken salad out of chicken crap. Or you would see every lousy oline concentrating on that aspect, instead of getting better talent.

[NY's stepchild]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

JMO That's a cop out. No JEt fan had a problem with the tempo of the offense or design of the plays when the results were great.(why didn't you have that same problem in 2009 and 2010 with the offense) . That oline was one of the best in 2009 and 2010 who were doing the same things that last year unit was doing, just being more successful doing it. (starting the same five olineman as year before that went to afc championship)

The Oline doesn't perform the same in 2011 and people have to find excuses(point the finger) why the oline and offense didn't do as well. Maybe the oline just had a bad year or the fact that it isn't as good as in years past.(some players on that oline maybe are starting to slip) .

Jets have two very big pieces on oline. LT and Center. You have those positions filled with top talent and your oline will always be pretty good. It much easier to fill those other three positions on the oline when you have those two premier positions locked down.

JMo That what you should be counting on not tempo and play design being the reason the Jet oline bounces back in 2012. Tempo and play design can't make Chicken salad out of chicken crap. Or you would see every lousy oline concentrating on that aspect, instead of getting better talent.

We did have the same problems in 2009 2010, or are you saying the QB had a nice clean pocket to throw in? Shotty has always had this criticism. 2007, and 2008 were the same, even though Farve got rid of the motion, there was still constant confusion, and play calls coming in late. You know as well as anyone the blocking has everything to do with getting a jump, and gaining leverage. I don't know why you wouldn't give that point any validity.

[jpoppy7]

Originally Posted by NY's stepchild

We did have the same problems in 2009 2010, or are you saying the QB had a nice clean pocket to throw in? Shotty has always had this criticism. 2007, and 2008 were the same, even though Farve got rid of the motion, there was still constant confusion, and play calls coming in late. You know as well as anyone the blocking has everything to do with getting a jump, and gaining leverage. I don't know why you wouldn't give that point any validity.

Absolutely wrong, Jets had one of league's best pass protections in 2009 and 2010. Not to say they never faced pressure, but they faced less pressure than just about every other team.

[lamont_jordan_rules]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

No JEt fan had a problem with the tempo of the offense or design of the plays when the results were great.(why didn't you have that same problem in 2009 and 2010 with the offense)

... you are 100% wrong with this sentence ...

... coming here as long as you have ... you should know that this has been a valid criticism of shotty since he's been here ... his offenses have performed poorly under chad, favre, & sanchez ...

... he had a poor feel with what plays to call, when to call, has constantly taken too long to get them into the huddle, wasted time with motion that only fooled his own players, and did not run plays designed for his teams strengths ...




l_j_r

[NY's stepchild]

Originally Posted by jpoppy7

Absolutely wrong, Jets had one of league's best pass protections in 2009 and 2010. Not to say they never faced pressure, but they faced less pressure than just about every other team.

Maybe you should try watching the games. We gave up 53 sacks in 07, 30 in 08, 30 sacks in 09 and 28 in 2010. 40 last year, but we dropped back a hell of a lot more. We ran the ball over 50% of the time in 09, and 10, and we were still no where near the top of the league.

[NY's stepchild]

The fact is I defended Shotty until the begining of last year. I thought that this was all a learning process for him. Seemed as though he just wasn't prepared a lot of the time. When he seemed to get even more confused last year is when I gave up on him, and came to believe that most of the blame for the inconsistency lied with him. There is no way you can say he ever ran a finely tuned, efficient offense though. That's crazy.

[ASG0531]

Originally Posted by NY's stepchild

Maybe you should try watching the games. We gave up 53 sacks in 07, 30 in 08, 30 sacks in 09 and 28 in 2010. 40 last year, but we dropped back a hell of a lot more. We ran the ball over 50% of the time in 09, and 10, and we were still no where near the top of the league.

Isn't that pretty good? That's 11th in 2009, 9th in 2010. If the Jets had protection problems in '09 and '10, who exactly constitutes a good line?

[NY's stepchild]

Originally Posted by ASG0531

Isn't that pretty good? That's 11th in 2009, 9th in 2010. If the Jets had protection problems in '09 and '10, who exactly constitutes a good line?

Didn't I say they ran the ball 50% of the time? I think I did. Sanchez threw 587 passes last year, and 392 in 2009. Do the math, and they actually grade out better last year. The line was not good at pass protection ever under Shotty. You guys were here saying that in '09.