FDNY is a bunch of racists.

[AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite]

Originally Posted by Bonhomme Richard

There's a difference between attitudes espoused by knuckleheads in a firehouse and claiming a standardized test is racist.

Yup.

I'm just not seeing how the OP can be spun in favor of hiring unqualified rescuers

[Jungle Shift Jet]

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

The FDNY are heroes not racists. The racists are the people that believe that a standardized test needs to be different for each race. That by definition is racism. The racists believe that "minorities" aren't smart enough to answer the same questions as white people. That is a sad display of modern day racism.

No the true racists, in this case the plaintiffs, believe that their failure is due not to lack of intelligence or a knowledge deficit but willful cultural bias.

[32green]

Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet

No the true racists, in this case the plaintiffs, believe that their failure is due not to lack of intelligence or a knowledge deficit but willful cultural bias.

I disagree; The judge himself is a latent racist who believes anything more than asking blacks and hispanics their first names is willfully conspiring to keep them down.

THe plaintiffs are only doing what these white, liberal-guilt buffoons like the Federal Judge here empowered them to do;

They are opportunists.

I actually have more respect for them.




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[chiefst2000]

Originally Posted by 32green

I disagree; The judge himself is a latent racist who believes anything more than asking blacks and hispanics their first names is willfully conspiring to keep them down.

THe plaintiffs are only doing what these white, liberal-guilt buffoons like the Federal Judge here empowered them to do;

They are opportunists.

I actually have more respect for them.




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I like the part where they mandate that any minorities scoring over a 25% on the exam should be placed in the next available opening. Considering the test was multiple choice and simply guessing randomly should net a 25% on a best of 4 multiple choice exam he must have thought those questions were REALLY racist.

[PatriotReign]

Originally Posted by doggin94it

I will say this - my ex wife's brother was a NYC firefighter for two years. He quit because, IIRC, he was sick of the racism he saw in his firehouse on a daily basis; just didn't want to work in that atmosphere. He now teaches math.

Now, he's a good guy but a bit volatile in his reactions to things, and there's no telling whether his firehouse was typical or not. But from his reports, at least, I'm not surprised by allegations of racist attitudes in the FDNY

Ypu obviously know him better than us but is it out of the realm of possibility that he had a chip on his shoulder and/or perceived any non PC discussions as racist?

For example, if I was in the firehouse and bitterly complained that they were dumbing down the test, one with an agenda or thin skin could infer that I was racist when I'd simply be expressing disapproval about the lowering of the standards. At the next social setting he'd tell you about "A guy I work with said to everyone that minorites can't pass tests and aren't as smart as he is". People with an agenda will often bend the facts to fit said agenda.

[Ernie]

Even Brother Jetdawgg has dared not defend the judges decision in this thread. Quite telling.

[PatriotReign]

Originally Posted by AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite

Yup.

I'm just not seeing how the OP can be spun in favor of hiring unqualified rescuers

Going semi off topic. I heard a lady make a great point on a talk show years ago. She stated that women firefighters were just as capable of dragging an unconscious victim from the top floor of a burning building but she'd prefer to be carried on the shoulder of a male FF than dragged by the ankles by a weaker female FF and having her head bounce off every step on the way down.

[PlumberKhan]

Originally Posted by Ernie

Even Brother Jetdawgg has dared not defend the judges decision in this thread. Quite telling.

Why don't you post in the other parts of JI?




Sent from my Double-Wide using Semaphore...

[Jasper17]

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

I like how the writer of the OP said that an NYFD jobs is the "best job in the world". How about the most dangerous job in the world. Outside of combat military fighting fires is one of the most dangerous occupations.

Must have been another OP in another thread because I certainly didn't say any such thing.

Trades: Thanks for posting that, I was going to when I got home today. Some hardcore material there.

Thanks for the insight guys.
I wasn't necessarily looking for answers but just to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

Someone mentioned about test prep available. There are oodles of opportunities for people of all types to have EQUAL(ish) opportunity to test prep.

The Vulcan Society, representing African Americans on the job held test prep for African American and Hispanic applicants provided that:

The Vulcans give priority to black candidates, and any white candidates who show up are allowed in, provided there are the resources to accommodate them

http://voicesofny.org/2012/03/test-p...nites-tension/

There is a very well-documented discussion between the Vulcan Society and by an active duty FDNY Deputy Chief, Paul Mannix. Chief Mannix runs a blog called Merit Matters http://meritmattersusa.blogspot.com/.

I guess my two biggest issues with this are:
1. That ANYone could even possibly begin to imagine that a standardized test could ever be racist. Someone needs to reach out to the College Board and the Federal and State Boards of Education.

2. By and large, the masses seem to be OK that a judge has ruled that quota hiring is acceptable. I have come across a number of bloggers and other sources that insist that not only is the judge right but go on to post additional misinformed or uninformed information about how the department's hiring processes are indeed racist. I can't understand why there hasn't been a larger outcry from all sides about this.

In a somewhat related incident I read last week about Wells Fargo settling a $175M suit for their "discriminatory lending practices." http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...rime-mortgages

Are people crazy? Or are there racists running rampant throughout this country in business and government helping the white man to get ahead?

[Ernie]

Originally Posted by PlumberKhan

Why don't you post in the other parts of JI?




Sent from my Double-Wide using Semaphore...

Thanks for your concern Brother Plumber. I choose to post lightly. I do contribute to the baseball forum. Brother Green can vouch for my contributions there.
Get high on life, not on pot.

[doggin94it]

Originally Posted by PatriotReign

Ypu obviously know him better than us but is it out of the realm of possibility that he had a chip on his shoulder and/or perceived any non PC discussions as racist?

Yeah. He's got a sense of humor and isn't exactly quick to call people racist.

[32green]

Originally Posted by Ernie

Even Brother Jetdawgg has dared not defend the judges decision in this thread. Quite telling.

Originally Posted by PlumberKhan

Why don't you post in the other parts of JI?




Sent from my Double-Wide using Semaphore...

Originally Posted by Ernie

Thanks for your concern Brother Plumber. I choose to post lightly. I do contribute to the baseball forum. Brother Green can vouch for my contributions there.
Get high on life, not on pot.

Ouch!



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[JetPotato]

Originally Posted by Ernie

Thanks for your concern Brother Plumber. I choose to post lightly. I do contribute to the baseball forum. Brother Green can vouch for my contributions there.
Get high on life, not on pot.

I'd say "contribute" isn't exactly the proper term

[AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite]

Originally Posted by JetPotato

I'd say "contribute" isn't exactly the proper term

lol

[Jasper17]

Update:

The judge has come up with a "proposed relief order" and as part of due process (I suspect) there is an opportunity to object to the relief order. Although the below letter is addressed to applicants of the most recent test, nowhere in any of the documentation or releases does it specify who can or cannot write an objection to the relief order. I will be writing one. I'm posting the link and encouraging anyone on here that has felt as much outrage as me to do the same.

Dear Exam 2000/2500 Applicants:

This letter is to notify you of a Proposed Relief Order in United States and Vulcan Society, et al. v. City of New York, Civil Action No. 07-cv-2067. You are receiving this notice because the City of New York's records indicate that you took Written Examination 2000 or 2500.

Written Exams 2000/2500 were developed under the supervision of the court in this lawsuit. They are not the basis of the underlying lawsuit or the upcoming Fairness Hearing, both of which concern Firefighter Exam No. 7029 (primarily administered in 1999) and Exam No. 2043 (primarily administered in 2002). However, because the Proposed Relief Order includes terms relating to the hiring of new firefighters, we are notifying you of the terms of the Proposed Relief Order and providing you with an opportunity to object to the order before it is entered.

Below please find a link to a document entitled "NOTICE OF PROPOSED RELIEF ORDER AND FAIRNESS HEARING." This document describes the basis of the lawsuit and the terms of the Proposed Relief Order. In addition, the document provides the time and place of a Fairness Hearing regarding the Proposed Relief Order and tells you how to make an objection to the terms of the Proposed Relief Order if you choose to do so. Please read the document carefully as your right to object to the Proposed Relief Order or participate in the Fairness Hearing may be affected.


Link to: NOTICE OF PROPOSED RELIEF ORDER AND FAIRNESS HEARING

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcas/downloa...lief_Order.pdf

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcas/downloa...lief_Order.pdf

[PatriotReign]

Just curious why they don't do a breakdown of SAT scores by race or are only certain tests inherently biased?

[Trades]

Originally Posted by PatriotReign

Just curious why they don't do a breakdown of SAT scores by race or are only certain tests inherently biased?

This is 1 of 220,000 hits for a Google search of "SAT racial bias"

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...wyMXlmyGrUlCmg

The controversy over the SAT possibly having a racial bias against African-American students has been reignited in the wake of a new study published in the Harvard Educational Review.


The article by Maria Veronica Santelices and Mark Wilson in the Spring 2010 issue confirms research in 2003 by Roy Freedle that questions in the verbal section of the college- entrance test do function differently for black students than from whites. This may mean that the average test scores of black students lag behind their white counterpart not just because of economic disparities or school quality.

[32green]

I worked in Harlem for the better part of 14 years and was constantly interacting with the FDNY. Obviously, that particular area was very busy and at any given time they were out on calls whether it be a building fire at 3 am or and aided case in a 6 story walk up in full gear in 100 degree temps;

The citizens of Harlem saw these guys on a daily basis and saw what they had to go through and virtually no one I ever met showed the slightest interest in doing what they did for a living....and even thought they were crazy.

COmbine this with the fact that due to the size of the city, there were numerous other civil service jobs with easier tests to be had that didnt have the physical demands the FF's did.

Of course, none of this is taken into account by Judge Gargoofis...who instead saw phantom racism in already dumbed down questions...which went virtually unseen by the thousands who chose not to even bother applying for the test....or didnt bother showing up when they did.

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[Frequent Flyer]

Originally Posted by doggin94it

I will say this - my ex wife's brother was a NYC firefighter for two years. He quit because, IIRC, he was sick of the racism he saw in his firehouse on a daily basis; just didn't want to work in that atmosphere. He now teaches math.

Now, he's a good guy but a bit volatile in his reactions to things, and there's no telling whether his firehouse was typical or not. But from his reports, at least, I'm not surprised by allegations of racist attitudes in the FDNY

You know,for as long as I can remember watching the 6 o clock action news, going on 35 years now---

At least once a week I'd always see a building burning down, usually in the Bronx or Queens, and seeing for the most part white firefighters pulling black victims out of those burning buildings. Seen quite a few of those firefighters die, too. Usually the fire was started because of some negligent landlord jury rigging the electrical system or some such ****.

But yeah, you go on going out of your way to smear white fire fighters as raythithts becuase of some personal anectdote your "friend" shared with you.