Sheriff Joe and the "Birther" Argument

[Jungle Shift Jet]

Originally Posted by Warfish

Except your case is based on a pre-US foreign definition of a term, and the counter is based on U.S. Law (Naturalization Act of 1790) which does not appear to agree with that definition by my reading.

In any event, I just don't see whats to be gained from this avenue, politically speaking.

Not only did you read it wrong, the SCOTUS made decisions after 1790 where Natural Born was cited and an important concept...

The USA did not exist, so an important reference book written less than 20 years earlier certainly would be pertinent. So were texts by Blackstone, Locke, Montesquieu, etc., the Magna Carta as well as the Bible, but you don't believe in that. I'm sure if the framers said Arthur C. Clarke Stan Lee Gene Roddenberry H. G. Wells and Isaac Asimov were influences on teh Constitution you'd buy that.

"Specificly", the Constitution has a an article in it that says what a President must be. Natural born is one qualification. And by its definition historic or contempotrary 0 ain't. Putting it in your vernacular,in the name of PC we collectively bestowed Mjolnir on a malevolent Loki instead of a benevolent Thor.

Another "principled" vote bending over backwards to justify and enable B. Hussein.... *sigh*

[quantum]

Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet

Not only did you read it wrong, the SCOTUS made decisions after 1790 where Natural Born was cited and an important concept...

The USA did not exist, so an important reference book written less than 20 years earlier certainly would be pertinent. So were texts by Blackstone, Locke, Montesquieu, etc., the Magna Carta as well as the Bible, but you don't believe in that. I'm sure if the framers said Arthur C. Clarke Stan Lee Gene Roddenberry H. G. Wells and Isaac Asimov were influences on teh Constitution you'd buy that.

"Specificly", the Constitution has a an article in it that says what a President must be. Natural born is one qualification. And by its definition historic or contempotrary 0 ain't. Putting it in your vernacular,in the name of PC we collectively bestowed Mjolnir on a malevolent Loki instead of a benevolent Thor.

Another "principled" vote bending over backwards to justify and enable B. Hussein.... *sigh*

omg - you just played the sci-fi card AND the comic book card in the same post?!

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet

Not only did you read it wrong, the SCOTUS made decisions after 1790 where Natural Born was cited and an important concept...

Cited does not neccessarily mean redefined differently from the 1790 Law. But I'll be honest, I'd have to defer to someone trained in Law, be that you (if you are, I don't know) or Doggin, who I know is. As a layman, I'm patently unqualified to render legal-theory judgement beyond common sense-type evaluation of what I read.

The USA did not exist, so an important reference book written less than 20 years earlier certainly would be pertinent. So were texts by Blackstone, Locke, Montesquieu, etc., the Magna Carta as well as the Bible, but you don't believe in that.

Why wouldn't I believe that? As you often request, please do not speak for me. Yes, I am aware that pre-U.S. documents and writings of a wide and thorough nature influenced and affected our Founders.

I'm sure if the framers said Arthur C. Clarke Stan Lee Gene Roddenberry H. G. Wells and Isaac Asimov were influences on the Constitution you'd buy that.

Meanspirited sarcasm is unneccessary. It's also wrong.

Another "principled" vote bending over backwards to justify and enable B. Hussein.... *sigh*

I simply hold a different view of what will best convince the "middle" in this election. If you are so deeply convinced by your argument, I suggest you file suit yourself and prove it in court rather than lecture a self-admitted legal layman such as me about my own political motivations.

[SafetyBlitz]

Umm, the 14th amendment says if you're born here, you're a citizen.

[Frequent Flyer]

Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet

I'm sure if the framers said Arthur C. Clarke Stan Lee Gene Roddenberry H. G. Wells and Isaac Asimov were influences on teh Constitution you'd buy that.

[brady's a catcher]

Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz

Umm, the 14th amendment says if you're born here, you're a citizen.

But sheriff Joe says he weren't! I agree that this does not help Mitt at all, and may hurt him a little. And he can't afford to lose any votes with nonsense.

[Jungle Shift Jet]

Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz

Umm, the 14th amendment says if you're born here, you're a citizen.

Psst! Kid!...

According to the Congressional Record which explains its background, it doesn't. Explicitly.
Only due to Wong Kim Ark, is that interpretation possible
And yet Anchor Babies still have not been explicitly declared legal by the SCOTUS. So if a state says they are, they are.
Furthermore, qaccording to the Constitution you cannot be President if your mom and/or dad are not US citizens.

What is so GD hard to grasp?

[Jungle Shift Jet]

Originally Posted by quantum

omg - you just played the sci-fi card AND the comic book card in the same post?!

Only way to out-geek a nerd....

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet

What is so GD hard to grasp?

Probably the part where not a single U.S. Court of Law has agreed with the "Obama Not Eligible" claim, nor does it appear any ever will.

[Trades]

Maybe what we need here is the comic adaptation of the US Constitution...

Our leaders swear to uphold it, our military to defend it. It is the blueprint for the shape and function of government itself and what defines Americans as Americans. But how many of us truly know our Constitution?

The United States Constitution: A Graphic Adaptation uses the art of illustrated storytelling to breathe life into our nation’s cornerstone principles. Simply put, it is the most enjoyable and groundbreaking way to read the governing document of the United States. Spirited and visually witty, it roves article by article, amendment by amendment, to get at the meaning, background, and enduring relevance of the law of the land.

What revolutionary ideas made the Constitution’s authors dare to cast off centuries of rule by kings and queens? Why do we have an electoral college rather than a popular vote for president and vice president? How did a document that once sanctioned slavery, denied voting rights to women, and turned a blind eye to state governments running roughshod over the liberties of minorities transform into a bulwark of protection for all?

[Jungle Shift Jet]

A cosmic storm causes President James Norcross to have superpowers. He changed his composition or call on great strength. His secret base is under the White House. Despite the fact that the character's name is "Super President," only Norcross' chubby, pipe-smoking advisor Jerry Sayles knows that the leader of the Free World is also a red and white-costumed superhero in his off-hours.

[SafetyBlitz]

Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet

Psst! Kid!...

According to the Congressional Record which explains its background, it doesn't. Explicitly.
Only due to Wong Kim Ark, is that interpretation possible
And yet Anchor Babies still have not been explicitly declared legal by the SCOTUS. So if a state says they are, they are.
Furthermore, qaccording to the Constitution you cannot be President if your mom and/or dad are not US citizens.

What is so GD hard to grasp?

Article II section one:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Citizenship clause in the 14th amendment:

14th amendment
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

There are varying interpretations of the original intent of Congress, based on statements made during the congressional debate over the amendment.[6][7] During the original debate over the amendment Senator Jacob M. Howard of Michigan—the author of the Citizenship Clause[8]—described the clause as having the same content, despite different wording, as the earlier Civil Rights Act of 1866, namely, that it excludes Native Americans who maintain their tribal ties and "persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers."[9] According to historian Glenn W. LaFantasie of Western Kentucky University, "A good number of his fellow senators supported his view of the citizenship clause."[8] Others also agreed that the children of ambassadors and foreign ministers were to be excluded.[10][11] However, concerning children born in the United States to parents who are not U.S. citizens (and not foreign diplomats), three Senators, including Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lyman Trumbull, the author of the Civil Rights Act, as well as President Andrew Johnson, asserted that both the Civil Rights Act and the Fourteenth Amendment would confer citizenship on them at birth, and no Senator offered a contrary opinion.[12][13][14]

Senator James Rood Doolittle of Wisconsin asserted that all Native Americans were subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, so that the phrase "Indians not taxed" would be preferable,[15] but Trumbull and Howard disputed this, arguing that the U.S. government did not have full jurisdiction over Native American tribes, which govern themselves and make treaties with the United States.[16][17]

In Elk v. Wilkins, 112 U.S. 94 (1884), the clause's meaning was tested regarding whether birth in the United States automatically extended national citizenship. The Supreme Court held that Native Americans who voluntarily quit their tribes did not automatically gain national citizenship.[18]

The clause's meaning was tested again in the case of United States v. Wong Kim Ark 169 U.S. 649 (1898). The Supreme Court held that under the Fourteenth Amendment a man born within the United States to Chinese citizens who have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States and are carrying on business in the United States—and whose parents were not employed in a diplomatic or other official capacity by a foreign power—was a citizen of the United States. Subsequent decisions have applied the principle to the children of foreign nationals of non-Chinese descent.[19]

Two supreme court decisions define those as born here to be natural born citizens.

You're free to interpret the constitution as you wish. But you are not a supreme court justice. And since 1884, it's been US law that those born here are natural born US citizens, which by Article II section I, confers on them the right to run for POTUS.

/End thread.

[Jungle Shift Jet]

Originally Posted by SafetyBlitz

Article II section one:




Citizenship clause in the 14th amendment:




Two supreme court decisions define those as born here to be natural born citizens.

You're free to interpret the constitution as you wish. But you are not a supreme court justice. And since 1884, it's been US law that those born here are natural born US citizens, which by Article II section I, confers on them the right to run for POTUS.

/End thread.

No kid. Not natural born, can be a citizen, can't be President.
Now back to arts and crafts at summer camp with ye.

[PlumberKhan]

Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet

A cosmic storm causes President James Norcross to have superpowers. He changed his composition or call on great strength. His secret base is under the White House. Despite the fact that the character's name is "Super President," only Norcross' chubby, pipe-smoking advisor Jerry Sayles knows that the leader of the Free World is also a red and white-costumed superhero in his off-hours.

How much dry cleaning chemicals have you huffed in your life?

[SafetyBlitz]

Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet

No kid. Not natural born, can be a citizen, can't be President.
Now back to arts and crafts at summer camp with ye.

Every legal precedent since the dawn of this country has interpreted that clause, "natural born citizen", as meaning one born in the borders of the United States.

If you can find a legal precedent by a US court that says something else, than by all means, bring it to our attention.

[quantum]

Originally Posted by PlumberKhan

How much dry cleaning chemicals have you huffed in your life?

you prolly have him beat by several metric tons.

[PatriotReign]

Originally Posted by Warfish

I contend that this line of attack by the right will cost more votes amongst the vital moderate/independant/undecided block that will sway this election, than it will win over in November.

I think most people consider Arpajo a bufoon politically and don't associate him with the manistream GOP.

[Frequent Flyer]

Hawaii became a state in 1959, and Soetero claims he was born in '61. It's not out of the realm of possibility that he was born when Hawaii was still just a territory, considering the fact he's lied about so much about his life.

That's probably why he's hiding his college transcripts---

The birthdate he uses probably isn't 1961 and/or he uses the name Soetero and registered as a foriegn exchange student.

[SafetyBlitz]

Originally Posted by Frequent Flyer

Hawaii became a state in 1959, and Soetero claims he was born in '61. It's not out of the realm of possibility that he was born when Hawaii was still just a territory, considering the fact he's lied about so much about his life.

That's probably why he's hiding his college transcripts---

The birthdate he uses probably isn't 1961 and/or he uses the name Soetero and registered as a foriegn exchange student.

If Obama gets reelected it will be because of people like you say things like this.

[sg3]

Iguess when you see that you are saddled with a GOP version of Dukakis as your nominee---looks pretty but in reality is an moron propped up by Kock Bros teabagger billions

You fall back on the birther proven bullsh1t and Michelle Eichmann "muslim" nonsense that even legitimate non teabagger Republicans dismiss and denounce

Have fun with it until November because youll have another long four year wait after that to try again

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