Revisiting Gun Laws in the U.S.

[MCBNY]

Originally Posted by doggin94it

Spain gunman kills four in Girona province

Spain relives notorious massacre after shotgun killer hangs himself in cell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

You were saying?

So Europe has mass killings too. However, deaths by gunshots are much less common over there than they are in the States, and that's more indicative of our gun problem over here. The mass killings are aberrations - and make up a small percentage of deaths by gunshot, so that's a misleading list you gave.

I have a list of my own, more indicative of the dangerous gun culture here, illustrating how Europe has it much better than us. It's a list of countries by firearm-related death rate in a given recent year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

The United States is sandwiched in between the advanced, great nations of the Philippines and Mexico.

Other than Estonia, the U.S. has a significantly higher gunshot-death rate than every other European country on the list. This proves, like it or not, that Europe does a much better job at regulating firearms, making them harder to get for the average joe, etc. Our firearm death rate is more than 10x higher than that of Spain. The easier our country makes it to get a gun, the more gun-related deaths there will be. It's very, very simple, I think. More guns circulating = more deaths. Shutting down mom & pop gun shops that Joe Schmoe can walk into and buy a gun will decrease the amount of firearms in use. Putting more effort into cracking down harder on those who own illegal guns will also go a long way - something the government definitely is capable of.

Sticking with Spain, here is a brief rundown of their policy when it comes to citizen-owned firearms:

http://www.commongunsense.com/2011/0...-in-spain.html

+Gun owners must be licensed and undergo strict medical and psychological tests.

+No one is permitted to own more than six hunting rifles and one handgun.

+Firearms must be registered and inspected annually.

+Machine guns and submachine guns are banned, as are imitation pistols.

I understand that guns would still be accessible in America if made illegal - just like they are for some people in Europe. Laws will always be broken to a degree and nothing will ever be perfect. But there's no reason to not move in that direction for the sake of making the U.S. safer. Things would IMMEDIATELY improve by making guns hard to get, like they do in Spain, and tons of other European countries.

And for the record, the Second Amendment is the only Amendment I don't support.

[freestater]

Originally Posted by MCBNY

Why is it never gonna happen? All it takes is a simple law to be passed which will change the culture.

Violence WILL decline if better laws are passed and enforced. Will gun violence completely disappear? Hell no. There will always be a way to get around the system and get a gun. But it would be much harder, and the result would be NOT having one of these massacres every other year.

People said the same thing about abolishing slavery and giving women rights. "It's never gonna happen."

Right. Because it's so damn hard to get cocaine or heroin right now, innit?

[freestater]

Originally Posted by crasherino

Contrary to what the OP thinks, there is no way to change the culture of this country - and there isn't really any reason to. There are millions of law abiding, gun owning citizens that really aren't the problem here. But, it is far too easy, with the law as it is today, for criminals to obtain fire arms. The licensing, permit-process, background checks, waiting periods, etc. should be much stricter, across the board. And yes, considering the state of certain states' restrictions (or lack thereof) the Federal Government should be involved in enacting stricter regulations (runs for cover...).

Right. Those people over in that other state... they're waaaaaaaay too stupid to govern themselves. They need smart little--ole you tellin' 'em how to do it.

[MCBNY]

Originally Posted by freestater

Right. Because it's so damn hard to get cocaine or heroin right now, innit?

Please look at the FACTS.

FACT: European countries regulate guns & crack down much harder on illegal guns.

FACT: European countries have way fewer gun related deaths, thus making them safer.

Simple, right?

There is no reason America can't change its policies to more strictly enforce gun ownership. None! All I want is a safer country.

[freestater]

Originally Posted by MCBNY

Please look at the FACTS.

FACT: European countries regulate guns & crack down much harder on illegal guns.

FACT: European countries have way fewer gun related deaths, thus making them safer.

Simple, right?

did you read my other post on what I thought of your "safety is the goal" thought?

[freestater]

Originally Posted by JetPotato

We now have two threads on this board: One about a senator calling for limitations to the First Amendment, and one from some kid who wants to repeal the Second Amendment. Add in a government that routinely pisses on the 10th Amendment.

Is there any part of this thing you people want to actually keep?

I'll tell you what, if you really want to start stripping it down, let's start with the 16th Amendment. Whaddya say? Deal?

lol.

...if only.

[DeanPatsFan]

Originally Posted by MCBNY

Please look at the FACTS.

FACT: European countries regulate guns & crack down much harder on illegal guns.

FACT: European countries have way fewer gun related deaths, thus making them safer.

Simple, right?

There is no reason America can't change its policies to more strictly enforce gun ownership. None! All I want is a safer country.

Fact

Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah, Idaho etc. all states with a very high gun per capita rate.... Also some of the safest states in the country.

Fact

Chicago and DC both ban guns and have a couple of the highest murder rates by firearms in the country....

[DDNYjets]

Like in every other situation on this planet it is the people that are the problem.

But I do not see a reason why a civilian would need an automatic weapon.

[Apache 51]

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

Like in every other situation on this planet it is the people that are the problem.

But I do not see a reason why a civilian would need an automatic weapon.

The people or the individual?

[Jetdawgg]

[Soberphobia]

This whole thing where gun ownership is linked with freedom and personal rights is just bizarre, given that it does the exact opposite. A fearful and much less freer nation is the result - its great you've got a constitution that apparently protects individual rights (though if it does actually protect rights is definitely arguable) but the gun-ownership amendment was designed for times many centuries ago and isn't applicable now.

However I doubt whether gun laws in the USA will change in my lifetime -too much money and vested interests are involved.

[gunnails]

I think I will take my unlicensed, unregistered, assault rifles and pistols with high capacity magazines out to the woods and blow up some cans to celebrate my 2nd amendment rights, maybe light off some bottle rockets and a few M80's.

Should be nice in the Tillamook forest, dry and 75 degrees. Should probably stop and get some more ammo first, 700 rounds should do it. It's a great way to spend a few hours.

[AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite]

Originally Posted by MCBNY

And for the record, the Second Amendment is the only Amendment I don't support.

lol

[palmetto defender]

Originally Posted by MCBNY

Please look at the FACTS.

FACT: European countries regulate guns & crack down much harder on illegal guns.

FACT: European countries have way fewer gun related deaths, thus making them safer.

Simple, right?

There is no reason America can't change its policies to more strictly enforce gun ownership. None! All I want is a safer country.

So YOU advocate someone in the government coming to MY home to take away my handgun? And my neighbors too? Many of whom are doctors, lawyers, successful businessmen and a couple of elected officials.
All honorable citizens. Responsible in our community. Levels of achievement. A few combat veterans.
You want gun control? Live with Michael Bloomberg. Old Mike has a bit of a problem here in SC because of his vigilante effort at dealing with legal gun dealers.
I agree that certain weapons should be restricvted, but that is a STATE'S RIGHTS issue.

[MCBNY]

I'm gonna slightly tweak what I originally said after mulling it over a bit more.

One-shot handguns & hunting shotguns, rifles, etc. should be allowed for normal sane citizens who are heavily vetted, like they are in Spain. But please get rid of the automatic weapons. And crack the f^ck down hard on illegal gun owners. That's a better formula I think.

Where did all the bashing come from? Why are you assuming I hate the Constitution? Because I'm very liberal? Get a freaking life. I never said anything negative about our Constitution, other than initially disagreeing with the Second Amendment. Being liberal does not mean I hate America. Quite the contrary.

And to those who criticized me for starting the thread right after the shooting, I'm sorry if that offends you. Like PK said, I thought this would be an appropriate time/place (the political forum, not the Hangar) to bring up the discussion. I felt it was appropriate, and if you think that's classless, I'm sorry. Flame away.

[freestater]

Originally Posted by Black Death

This whole thing where gun ownership is linked with freedom and personal rights is just bizarre, given that it does the exact opposite. A fearful and much less freer nation is the result - its great you've got a constitution that apparently protects individual rights (though if it does actually protect rights is definitely arguable) but the gun-ownership amendment was designed for times many centuries ago and isn't applicable now.

However I doubt whether gun laws in the USA will change in my lifetime -too much money and vested interests are involved.

Nothing surprising from a guy who has a murdering communist in his avatar.

[freestater]

Originally Posted by MCBNY

I'm gonna slightly tweak what I originally said after mulling it over a bit more.

One-shot handguns & hunting shotguns, rifles, etc. should be allowed for normal sane citizens who are heavily vetted, like they are in Spain. But please get rid of the automatic weapons. And crack the f^ck down hard on illegal gun owners. That's a better formula I think.

Where did all the bashing come from? Why are you assuming I hate the Constitution? Because I'm very liberal? Get a freaking life. I never said anything negative about our Constitution, other than initially disagreeing with the Second Amendment.

And to those who criticized me for starting the thread right after the shooting, I'm sorry if that offends you. Like PK said, I thought this would be an appropriate time/place (the political forum, not the Hangar) to bring up the discussion. I felt it was appropriate, and if you think that's classless, I'm sorry.

at the end of the day, what you're saying is; you'd like to send some other poor sap to go around and collect all these evil weapons for you 'cause you're so scared and frightened. I mean, you're not planning on going around doing the collections yourself, are you?

[palmetto defender]

Originally Posted by MCBNY

I'm gonna slightly tweak what I originally said after mulling it over a bit more.

One-shot handguns & hunting shotguns, rifles, etc. should be allowed for normal sane citizens who are heavily vetted, like they are in Spain. But please get rid of the automatic weapons. And crack the **** down hard on illegal gun owners.

Glad you're coming along. Three of the four weapons this nut job had were "single shot" weapons. And the guy was "clean". Nuts but clean.

The Gabby Gifford nut also used a single shooter as did the Beltway snipers. And the VA Tech killer. And Charles Whitman and the Fort Hood Guy. And most of these cases.
I agree no automatic or high caliber weapons. Or armor piercing ammo.
Nobody with a criminal record shoud be allowed to buy ANY gun. But it is a state by state matter. I can go to any of a dozen gun stores and buy whatever right now. NY is different as is NJ.

[freestater]

what's a "high caliber weapon"?

[MCBNY]

Originally Posted by Black Death

This whole thing where gun ownership is linked with freedom and personal rights is just bizarre, given that it does the exact opposite. A fearful and much less freer nation is the result - its great you've got a constitution that apparently protects individual rights (though if it does actually protect rights is definitely arguable) but the gun-ownership amendment was designed for times many centuries ago and isn't applicable now.

However I doubt whether gun laws in the USA will change in my lifetime -too much money and vested interests are involved.

Exactly. Great post.