Two Tragic Events, Two Very Different Reactions, Same Number of Dead

[CraigFL]

While the ratings aspect is of great concern to the media, there is also a political agenda. One example promotes the banning of guns through fear (pushing all the fence sitters in their direction), the other promotes the deport the illegal aliens agenda. The former is in political alignment with the liberal agenda, the latter is the antithesis.

[MCBNY]

I should hope a premeditated mass shooting should draw entirely different reactions than a bad automobile accident.

Didn't read through the whole thread, but I don't see the controversy.

[MnJetFan]

The tragedy in Colorado was that a tragedy. So far as gun laws check out Norway 70 people killed, Britain a dozen people killed Germany and so on. The three countries have strict gunlaws but it didn't stop the psycho from killing.
IMHO there is one way to remedy this you kill you die. No heascase defense. You murder a dozen human beings you are crazy but you still did it.
Time to get Zapped!

[CanadaSteve]

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

Violence is part of society and is here to stay. Video games, movies, newspapers, TV news, etc. It is everywhere. For better or worse. Sooner or later the onus has to be on the people to act a certain way and make the right decisions on how to act. We have free will. Nobody is holding a gun to someone's head, making them act a certain way. We need to separate entertainment from reality. It is not the movie studio's responsibility to do that for us. It is not Congress' responsibility or right to do that for us. We have to do that ourselves. A little self-control can go a long way.

Yet, the entertainment industry is doing all it can, with technology developed (more or less) initially by the military, in blurring the lines between reality and entertainment.

[quantum]

Originally Posted by Warfish

So we have the shooting tragedy. 12 (or is it 13 now) dead, many more wounded. Debate all over on our rights and laws.

And almost on the same day, we have a tragedy down in Texas where 23 people, all illegal immigrants, were crammed into a small truck that went off the road, killing 13 of them, and wounding badly almost all the rest.

And I've seen no talk, or debate, or ever a glacing mention of the second event, despite the same amount of dead.

I find that very interesting and enlightening as to how tragedy is played up in our media, and for polticial gain.

In looking at causes for these events, I think that the media needs to be examined closely for it's role in helping to create an environement of hype that potential killers see as their road to fame and eternal glory, and may in part help lead them to "going out as big as possible".

Guns have been around forever. 24/7 Endless Media Coverage of a mass killing, only in the last couple of decades. And Mass killing such as the one in CO are a relatively new phenomena.

You'll note also that no one of note is questioning the role of the over-the-top violence in our entertainment media, or in the coverage by our news media. Yet both clearly play a role in helping form these ideas in the minds of the potential mass-killer.

One is forced to wonder, if the right were demanding a ban on violence in movies (like Batman) and in News coverage, how would the left respond to those demands, while they demand all guns be removed?

And why, do you think, there is no talk of any kind about the 13 dead illegals on our highways, and the wounded we taxpayers are now paying to heal, from the crashed truck? Same numebr fo dead, no talk of any kind.

All very interesting IMO.

I read about that other thing: a crazed Tea Partier ran them off the road.

[Soberphobia]

Originally Posted by MnJetFan

The tragedy in Colorado was that a tragedy. So far as gun laws check out Norway 70 people killed, Britain a dozen people killed Germany and so on. The three countries have strict gunlaws but it didn't stop the psycho from killing.
IMHO there is one way to remedy this you kill you die. No heascase defense. You murder a dozen human beings you are crazy but you still did it.
Time to get Zapped!

These events happen so often in the USA, but a lot less so in other countries - I think if you compare the rate of gun fatalaties from those countries to the USA you will find the USA has far greater rates than them.

[doggin94it]

Originally Posted by Black Death

These events happen so often in the USA, but a lot less so in other countries - I think if you compare the rate of gun fatalaties from those countries to the USA you will find the USA has far greater rates than them.

Not if you compare the US to Europe as a whole - and that's a lot fairer comparison, given that the US occupies the bulk of a continent and is comprised of multiple states.

[DeanPatsFan]

Originally Posted by quantum

I read about that other thing: a crazed Tea Partier ran them off the road.

While on his way to a theater to massacre people?

[Soberphobia]

Originally Posted by doggin94it

Not if you compare the US to Europe as a whole - and that's a lot fairer comparison, given that the US occupies the bulk of a continent and is comprised of multiple states.

I'm not sure that it is a fairer comparison - you can't really lump the Russians in with the British for example. Culturally Americans are pretty close no matter where you go in your nation. Go from the UK to parts of Russia and its like going to another planet.

Anyway - I don't think anyone should be asking for the banning of guns, but rather just making it a lot harder for people with a screw-loose to get hold of them. In my country if you have a legitimate reason for owning a gun or guns (for sport, hunting, for work etc) you can certainly get hold of them. Hey, it hasn't stopped gun-crime totally, but it has stopped these massacres. Also, when a gun crime occurs it is a lot easier for the police to find the suspects given those guns are regulated. Admittedly our population is probably a lot easier to police given there are a lot less of us.

Think there is one country in Europe that does have high gun ownership but extremely low rates of gun crime? Could be wrong. Think its one of the Scandanavian countries - but I think that is a different situation given those populations are small and basically mono-cultural. Mono-cultural countries tend to have low crime rates full stop just because crime rates are low when everyone shares the same values and everyone knows each other.

[isired]

Originally Posted by MnJetFan

IMHO there is one way to remedy this you kill you die. No heascase defense. You murder a dozen human beings you are crazy but you still did it.
Time to get Zapped!

Colorado has the death penalty, so it didn't seem to work that way in this case.

I think it's funny that people are concerned or confused that a mass shooting in a commonly visited public place affects people's emotions more than a car crash - no matter who was in the car. First of all, it's murder vs. an accident. And there are dozens of other reasons why - it's a more personal fear - people think about the mindset of the shooter, what it was that drove him to this; the midset of the theatergoers, what they were thinking, how scared they were, etc.; they think about the lack of control of the situation, a situation that they put themselves in, with their children, dozens of times a year; they think about the fact that dozens more were injured and could easily have been killed. With the car crash, sure, it could happen to anyone, but it's unfortunately pretty common, it's not generally something that someone planned, etc.

As for the media, while they do of course have political agendas when reporting, it's not hard to see, no matter what the agenda, that a madman armed to the teeth and armored head to toe opening fire in a sold out movie theater is going to merit more coverage than a car accident. I don't think you can even say that it pushes one agenda more than the other, because people while those who want guns banned will point to it, so will those who want conceal carry for all (presumably sane) people.

[quantum]

Originally Posted by DeanPatsFan

While on his way to a theater to massacre people?

only blacks and gays.

[doggin94it]

Originally Posted by Black Death

I'm not sure that it is a fairer comparison - you can't really lump the Russians in with the British for example. Culturally Americans are pretty close no matter where you go in your nation. Go from the UK to parts of Russia and its like going to another planet.

Anyway - I don't think anyone should be asking for the banning of guns, but rather just making it a lot harder for people with a screw-loose to get hold of them. In my country if you have a legitimate reason for owning a gun or guns (for sport, hunting, for work etc) you can certainly get hold of them. Hey, it hasn't stopped gun-crime totally, but it has stopped these massacres. Also, when a gun crime occurs it is a lot easier for the police to find the suspects given those guns are regulated. Admittedly our population is probably a lot easier to police given there are a lot less of us.

Think there is one country in Europe that does have high gun ownership but extremely low rates of gun crime? Could be wrong. Think its one of the Scandanavian countries - but I think that is a different situation given those populations are small and basically mono-cultural. Mono-cultural countries tend to have low crime rates full stop just because crime rates are low when everyone shares the same values and everyone knows each other.

Exactly. That's just not the case in the US, and it impacts everything from crime rates to healthcare costs to homelessness.

[doggin94it]

Originally Posted by isired

Colorado has the death penalty, so it didn't seem to work that way in this case.

I think it's funny that people are concerned or confused that a mass shooting in a commonly visited public place affects people's emotions more than a car crash - no matter who was in the car. First of all, it's murder vs. an accident. And there are dozens of other reasons why - it's a more personal fear - people think about the mindset of the shooter, what it was that drove him to this; the midset of the theatergoers, what they were thinking, how scared they were, etc.; they think about the lack of control of the situation, a situation that they put themselves in, with their children, dozens of times a year; they think about the fact that dozens more were injured and could easily have been killed. With the car crash, sure, it could happen to anyone, but it's unfortunately pretty common, it's not generally something that someone planned, etc.

As for the media, while they do of course have political agendas when reporting, it's not hard to see, no matter what the agenda, that a madman armed to the teeth and armored head to toe opening fire in a sold out movie theater is going to merit more coverage than a car accident. I don't think you can even say that it pushes one agenda more than the other, because people while those who want guns banned will point to it, so will those who want conceal carry for all (presumably sane) people.

Actually, some car crashes get plenty of newsplay. Remember the wrong-way crash on the Taconic? A bunch of cute kids killed, families destroyed, drugs, alcohol, and a suburban mother with, apparently, a secret life . . . all the stuff of media wet dreams. HBO even aired a documentary on it.

But a bunch of illegal aliens in a truck? No, that won't be national news.

[shakin318]

People can relate to going to a movie theater.

Most people can't relate to being in a pickup truck with 40 other people.

[isired]

Originally Posted by doggin94it

Actually, some car crashes get plenty of newsplay. Remember the wrong-way crash on the Taconic? A bunch of cute kids killed, families destroyed, drugs, alcohol, and a suburban mother with, apparently, a secret life . . . all the stuff of media wet dreams. HBO even aired a documentary on it.

But a bunch of illegal aliens in a truck? No, that won't be national news.

That car crash generated more news coverage than the illegals, I would think because of the unexpected and surprising elements, and, yes, a suburban housewife and kids vs. a truck full of illegal immigrants, but it still didn't have anywhere near the coverage, in terms of the quantity, geographic spread and, I suspect, duration of the CO shootings.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[palmetto defender]

Originally Posted by Black Death

I'm not sure that it is a fairer comparison - you can't really lump the Russians in with the British for example. Culturally Americans are pretty close no matter where you go in your nation. Go from the UK to parts of Russia and its like going to another planet.

Anyway - I don't think anyone should be asking for the banning of guns, but rather just making it a lot harder for people with a screw-loose to get hold of them. In my country if you have a legitimate reason for owning a gun or guns (for sport, hunting, for work etc) you can certainly get hold of them. Hey, it hasn't stopped gun-crime totally, but it has stopped these massacres. Also, when a gun crime occurs it is a lot easier for the police to find the suspects given those guns are regulated. Admittedly our population is probably a lot easier to police given there are a lot less of us.

Think there is one country in Europe that does have high gun ownership but extremely low rates of gun crime? Could be wrong. Think its one of the Scandanavian countries - but I think that is a different situation given those populations are small and basically mono-cultural. Mono-cultural countries tend to have low crime rates full stop just because crime rates are low when everyone shares the same values and everyone knows each other.

Household gun ownership in Switzerland is essentially universal.
However, mono-cultural countries do, I believe, had lower crime because of common values/ideals. The U.S. is hardly mono cultural.
Plus we have a recent history of expansion through violence.

[doggin94it]

Originally Posted by isired

That car crash generated more news coverage than the illegals, I would think because of the unexpected and surprising elements, and, yes, a suburban housewife and kids vs. a truck full of illegal immigrants, but it still didn't have anywhere near the coverage, in terms of the quantity, geographic spread and, I suspect, duration of the CO shootings.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Exactly