Hard to listen to early reports about Ingram and C Jones

[patman]

Originally Posted by sg3

how did Solder look?

Alternating looking like his feet were in quicksand or on roller skates.

[Joe W. Namath]

Ingram looked great last night. He is the guy I wanted at that spot. But it makes no difference what coples does. You have to give these guys 2 full years beofre you can really make valid assumptions on the guys.

Coples has had a quit camp though.

[Rob0729]

Originally Posted by ARodFLKeysJetsFan

In all fairness, I didn't watch the game, if you did, I'll take your word for it but alot of what you are saying - particularly Jones being a force against the run, sure doesn't show up in his 1 tackle/1 assist stat-line.

If he was that much of a force against the run, I would think he would have had more then 1 tackle & 1 assist.

Well, he only played a quarter or so. But you can be a force against the run and not get the tackle. If you clog the lane and force the RB to bounce inside or outside so another player makes a tackle for loss or no game, you played very well against the run.

He's a DE. How many tackles do DEs get in a game? How many tackles does a DE get in a game that he plays a quarter or a quarter and a half?

[Rob0729]

Originally Posted by sg3

how did Solder look?

Solder looked like crap. So did the entire o-line. I am reserving judgement on the 0-line until Mankins, Waters, and/or Vollmer get back in a few weeks. Word is that at least Mankins and Waters will be back before the first game.

[revischrist]

Coples has zero sacks in his NFL Career. I don't think its too soon to call him a bust. You think someone would give us a 7th rounder for him?

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by patman

That is the first time you heard that? The pats oline has been getting props for giving Brady time for 10 years.

The Oline is a testament to the Pats continuity on offense and to Brady more then anything.

Their line is the epitomy of the sum being better then the parts. Brady has had the same offense and same protection schemes for the past 8+ years....thats is a huge advantage and a reason why we should strive for that same continuity on offense.

[ARodFLKeysJetsFan]

Originally Posted by Rob0729

How many tackles do DEs get in a game? How many tackles does a DE get in a game that he plays a quarter or a quarter and a half?

That's debatable, there are alot of variables to consider.

That being said DE's & OLB'ers do get sacks when they play well.....

Jones didn't get any & neither did Ingram.

[patman]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

The Oline is a testament to the Pats continuity on offense and to Brady more then anything.

Their line is the epitomy of the sum being better then the parts. Brady has had the same offense and same protection schemes for the past 8+ years....thats is a huge advantage and a reason why we should strive for that same continuity on offense.

I was not sure if Gasitineu was troll baiting or serious so I decided to believe in the best and answered him straight.

[Rob0729]

Originally Posted by ARodFLKeysJetsFan

That's debatable, there are alot of variables to consider.

That being said DE's do get sacks when they play well.....

About as debatable as using stat lines to argue he didn't do much in a quarter and a half.

BTW, the other of the two holding calls he got was on a running play where he could have very well made the tackle in the backfield because he was close enough to make the tackle.

As for sacks, I disagree. Some of the best individual game pass rushing performances can produce little or no sacks. A QB pressure can be just as dangerous a sack. Sometimes more so. He was rushing Drew Brees and he was a big reason Brees was 1 for 4 for 4 yards last night.

[rextilleon]

Originally Posted by tfine350z

Coples as Rex said will not only be a pass rusher but allow pressure to come from different places due to the fact that you have to account for him on the inside. His versatility allows us to be multiple. Its about the scheme not the player. If he gets a double/triple teamed allowing maybin/pace to get pressure to bring down the QB thats all i care about. Stats arent everything.....but sadly in the Madden/fantasy football world we live in thats all people will focus on.

Double or triple teamed--you can only laugh.

[Rob0729]

According to the Boston Globe here is Jones' performance:

Jones produced five quarterback pressures in 14 dropbacks.

Against the run, he held the point well enough to factor in on two stuffed runs (carries of 1 yard or less) in another 12 snaps.

That’s a total of seven impact plays in just 26 plays.

http://www.boston.com/sports/footbal..._for_patriots/

[Bronxville Jets Fan]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

I think the thread is good too.....many posters are just discussing the players potential/future, thats all.

Thanks. The pessimism police take a bit far, at times. And even if there was some criticism in my IP about Coples, so what? There are countless threads discussing how good other rookies -- e.g., Hill, Allen -- are performing in camp, so it's pretty hypocritcal if you ask me. Can't have it both ways.

The fact is, as you astutely point out, there will always be a comparison between Coples and the other rookies who were available at 16 and seen as more logical picks by many on this board, DeCastro, Ingram, Jones being the most prominent.

[Bronxville Jets Fan]

Originally Posted by ARodFLKeysJetsFan

O.K. so show me exactly where that says Ingram had a sack & a forced fumble since that is what my question pertained to....

Ok, I mistakenly misstated Ingram's stat line, but my point is still valid.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...am-makes-mark/

Melvin Ingram makes mark

Posted by Mike Florio on August 9, 2012, 9:12 PM EDT

The first quarter of the Packers-Chargers game featured five turnovers. One was an interception resulting from intense pressure applied on quarterback Aaron Rodgers by rookie linebacker Melvin Ingram.

Ingram, the 18th overall pick in the draft, also applied a fairly solid hit to Rodgers on what turned out to be the reigning league MVP’s final play of the game.

The good news (if there is any) for the Packers is that Ingram wasn’t beating the starting left tackle, Marshall Newhouse, but reserve Herb Taylor.

Rodgers completed only two of eight passes for 16 yards. In addition to the interception, Rodgers lost a fumble.

Jets fans will be paying close attention to the early portion of Ingram’s career. With Ingram on the board when the Jets used the 16th overall pick, New York took linebacker Quinton Coples instead.

[DDNYjets]

Florio is an idiot. Coples isn't a linebacker.

[CleatMarks]

Jones looked good and he was going against Bushrod(Pro Bowler).

Solder looked lost. (not a rookie)

Offense looked bad but the Saints looked bad too.

Hightower looked really good at times, like a rookie in other time.

No other rookies stood out.

[jpoppy7]

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

Florio is an idiot. Coples isn't a linebacker.

Ingram is a linebacker, and Jets needed a linebacker more than a defensive lineman.

If Coples ends up the better player than Jets made the right move. But if Ingram is better, and at a position of greater need at the time, then they made the wrong pick. Time will tell - one preeason game won't.

[OCCH]

Originally Posted by jpoppy7

Ingram is a linebacker, and Jets needed a linebacker more than a defensive lineman.

If Coples ends up the better player than Jets made the right move. But if Ingram is better, and at a position of greater need at the time, then they made the wrong pick. Time will tell - one preeason game won't.

It will still be apples to oranges as the two players won't be in the same system -- ie, we'll never know if Ingram would have been the same player in our system, or Coples in a different one.

The only way a true "winner" can be declared is if one guy explodes and the other implodes. And like you said, we won't know that after one season, let alone one preseason game . . .

[southside]

MAYBIN

No need for Ingram. Move along please.

[CR8ZMIKE]

Ingram looked great, high motor, quick burst. Versatile. These are things we knew. But that's the man I wanted. Just for team need. I think Coples is a luxury pick. I wouldn't be to worries about what Ingram does though. He's.not a NYJ. Let's pay attention to how Coples collapses the pocket.

[PETER PAT]

I am ready to declare after 1 quarter of preseason play, that C. Jones is the next Reggie White.