Braylon outplaying T.O. in Seattle

[detectivekimble]

Originally Posted by cant wait

debunked by who? it was reported in several places that washington was targeting holmes in FA. where have you read that they were not interested in signing holmes? also calling him a JAG is laughable... he's not a true #1 but there's only a few players like that in the NFL that can get open on their own and they get $130M contracts, not $50M. holmes is a fine 1a/1b but needs a deep threat like braylon on the other side to open up the middle

JAG is laughable? The guy is easily replaceable. Pittsburgh let him go and has two starting WRs that are better than him.

There are 64 starting WRs in the NFL. Holmes probably falls right into the middle. JAG.

[OCCH]

Originally Posted by detectivekimble

And that's the wrong way to think. Just because nothing good happened in the one season with SF, doesn't mean nothing good would have happened had he stayed here. Same offense, third year with Sanchez, etc.

Then we're living in a hypothetical world with no way of knowing what would have actually happened.

All we can go by is reality, and reality is:
-- he got a last-ditch offer by a team in 2011
-- that team didn't want him back
-- he got a last-ditch offer by a team in 2012
-- he "probably" has locked up a roster spot on a team with no big threats

Again, I liked the guy. But I don't see how you can knock Holmes and praise Braylon when the stats show it wasn't even close.

But again, I guess time will tell . . .

[detectivekimble]

Originally Posted by OCCH

Then we're living in a hypothetical world with no way of knowing what would have actually happened.

All we can go by is reality, and reality is:
-- he got a last-ditch offer by a team in 2011
-- that team didn't want him back
-- he got a last-ditch offer by a team in 2012
-- he "probably" has locked up a roster spot on a team with no big threats

Again, I liked the guy. But I don't see how you can knock Holmes and praise Braylon when the stats show it wasn't even close.

But again, I guess time will tell . . .

The stats show it wasn't close in favor of Braylon.

His last healthy season was 2010.

Compare with 2011 Santonio Holmes in same offense, with same QB. An absolutely pathetic season with weak production, and no big plays. His production was nothing short of pathetic, even with ****ty QB play.

The reality is, the guy has all-pro ability. Santonio Holmes does not.

On 1050 ESPN, after the 2010 season, Trevor Pryce said he thought that Edwards and Holmes were the Jets two biggest FA priorities. What changed between then and FA, I don't know. But, I wouldn't use as proof that Santonio is better than Edwards the fact that Tannenbaum picked Holmes over Edwards. As we've seen, Tannenbaum and Rex do not know how to put an offense together.

[OCCH]

Originally Posted by detectivekimble

The stats show it wasn't close in favor of Braylon.

His last healthy season was 2010.

Compare with 2011 Santonio Holmes in same offense, with same QB. An absolutely pathetic season with weak production, and no big plays.

The reality is, the guy has all-pro ability. Santonio Holmes does not.

On 1050 ESPN, after the 2010 season, Trevor Pryce said he thought that Edwards and Holmes were the Jets two biggest FA priorities. What changed between then and FA, I don't know. But, I wouldn't use as proof that Santonio is better than Edwards the fact that Tannenbaum picked Holmes over Edwards. As we've seen, Tannenbaum and Rex do not know how to put an offense together.

Then 30 other GMs made the same mistake we did, two years in a row . . .

[detectivekimble]

Originally Posted by OCCH

Then 30 other GMs made the same mistake we did, two years in a row . . .

31 other GMs never made Santonio Holmes an offer, what's your point?

Did you not read the link regarding the BS restaurant brawl story? Edwards had at least one offer before that story came out. So, with that in mind, he had two offers. Santonio had one.

And the mistake was obvious. Just look at the 2011 NY Jets offensive offensive play.

[cant wait]

Originally Posted by detectivekimble

JAG is laughable? The guy is easily replaceable. Pittsburgh let him go and has two starting WRs that are better than him.

There are 64 starting WRs in the NFL. Holmes probably falls right into the middle. JAG.

he's not that easily replaced. just look at the crop of WR's we've been rolling out with. we're screwed without him... I'm just hoping that hill can show enough this year to take over the role braylon had in '10. you saw how much more effective holmes was when we had a WR that could stretch the field. is he better then wallace and antonio brown? absolutely not, that's why they let him go instead of giving him a big contract. but to claim he's an easily replaceable JAG is crazy talk

[Mogglez]

Originally Posted by detectivekimble

The stats show it wasn't close in favor of Braylon.

His last healthy season was 2010.

Compare with 2011 Santonio Holmes in same offense, with same QB. An absolutely pathetic season with weak production, and no big plays. His production was nothing short of pathetic, even with ****ty QB play.

The reality is, the guy has all-pro ability. Santonio Holmes does not.

On 1050 ESPN, after the 2010 season, Trevor Pryce said he thought that Edwards and Holmes were the Jets two biggest FA priorities. What changed between then and FA, I don't know. But, I wouldn't use as proof that Santonio is better than Edwards the fact that Tannenbaum picked Holmes over Edwards. As we've seen, Tannenbaum and Rex do not know how to put an offense together.

The stats actually don't show anything in the favor of Braylon Edwards. You can't just decide to compare the 2011 year to Braylon's 2010 year. Braylon didn't play because of injuries and you can't just decide to write that season off. If you compare the stats from the season that they were BOTH here there's no way that anyone would have picked differently. Braylon was a solid deep threat who was a great blocker who up until that season had a reputation of the dropsies. Holmes on the other hand was coming off a very productive year that would have been filled with a few more losses if he wasn't on the roster.

Who had more 100yard games in 2010? Holmes

Who had more clutch grabs? Holmes.

You also never addressed how Braylon got arrested during that season after getting into legal trouble is what got him here in the first place. He's an idiot.

To say Santonio is not a playmaker is ridiculous. To say he doesn't break tackles is beyond stupid (look at the cleveland catch), and to say Braylon edwards is the better wide receiver and should have been signed over him is crazy. And as I stated earlier, back when this debate was originally going on during free agency I was a big Braylon supporter. I liked the guy because he struck me as someone who genuinely wanted to play for this team. But I knew who the better wide receiver was and who was likely going to get signed.

As far as the redskins go, I'm going to go by what every reporter was reporting back when free agency started, not Vinny Cerrato. If this was true then why didn't he mention this when free agency was going on?

Braylon was available this offseason. We didn't sign him despite being able to get him on the cheap. Why? Because there are more receivers like Braylon Edwards than wide recievers with the ability Holmes has.

The plax experiment unfortunately was a failure outside of the red zone and that resulted in Holmes seeing a TON of double teams. Couple this with what many considered poor play calling by schotty and your left with what happened in 2011. No GM in the situation that Tanny was in in 2010 was picking Edwards over holmes. Not one.

[Funaz]

Originally Posted by Mogglez

The stats actually don't show anything in the favor of Braylon Edwards. You can't just decide to compare the 2011 year to Braylon's 2010 year. Braylon didn't play because of injuries and you can't just decide to write that season off. If you compare the stats from the season that they were BOTH here there's no way that anyone would have picked differently. Braylon was a solid deep threat who was a great blocker who up until that season had a reputation of the dropsies.

Who had more 100yard games in 2010? Holmes

Who had more clutch grabs? Holmes.

You also never addressed how Braylon got arrested during that season after getting into legal trouble is what got him here in the first place. He's an idiot.

To say he's not a playmaker is ridiculous. To say he doesn't break tackles is beyond stupid (look at the cleveland catch), and to say Braylon edwards is the better wide receiver and should have been signed over him is crazy. And as I stated earlier, back when this debate was originally going on during free agency I was a big Braylon supporter. I liked the guy because he struck me as someone who genuinely wanted to play for this team. But I knew who the better wide receiver was and who was likely going to get signed.

As far as the redskins go, I'm going to go by what every reporter was reporting back when free agency started, not Vinny whateverthehellhisnameis. Why didn't he mention this when free agency was going on?

Braylon was available this offseason. We didn't sign him despite being able to get him on the cheap. Why? Because there are more receivers like Braylon Edwards than wide recievers with the ability Holmes has.

The plax experiment unfortunately was a failure outside of the red zone and that resulted in Holmes seeing a TON of double teams. Couple this with what many considered poor play calling by schotty and your left with what happened in 2011. No GM in the situation that Tanny was in in 2010 was picking Edwards over holmes. Not one.

Listen Holmes is a jag. The fact the skins were after him shows he's not very good.

Braylon was more important to the jets than Holmes. Holmes worked nicely with Braylon because he's an above average #2 receiver, but nothing more.

Braylon was what opened up the running game and allowed Holmes to get open. As shown last year Holmes is easy to shut down unless he has a better wr opposite him.

You can make anarguement that more teams want Holmes a their number 2 than wanted Braylon as their #1, but to the jets Braylon was more valuable. Rex thinks Holmes cost him a SB so he over values him like much of our fanbase.

[Mogglez]

Originally Posted by Funaz

Listen Holmes is a jag. The fact the skins were after him shows he's not very good.

Braylon was more important to the jets than Holmes. Holmes worked nicely with Braylon because he's an above average #2 receiver, but nothing more.

Braylon was what opened up the running game and allowed Holmes to get open. As shown last year Holmes is easy to shut down unless he has a better wr opposite him.

You can make anarguement that more teams want Holmes a their number 2 than wanted Braylon as their #1, but to the jets Braylon was more valuable. Rex thinks Holmes cost him a SB so he over values him like much of our fanbase.

This post is complete nonsense. Now you're going to try and argue that because the redskins wanted Holmes that he's a JAG? On top of that your going to sit here and tell me they only wanted him to be the #2? That is completely laughable and your grasping at straws now. Braylon was valuable because he was a big guy who could run straight really fast and block well. That's it. This is something that our second round draft pick can do this year for probably half the cost. On top of that he's young and has the potential to one day become the number one receiver on this team.

Braylon was nothing special and you could make the arguement that for where he was drafted he was a bust of a draft pick. Holmes has shown that in big moments with the game on the line he makes things happen. He did it for the steelers, he did it for the jets, and he was the right choice when free agency hit.

[JB1089]

I'm not a Holmes fan. I don't think he's a #1 receiver.



Holmes is a very good receiver and a long way from being a JAG. Kerley is a JAG. Hill is a rookie. Turner is worse than a JAG, as are all of the other receivers on our team (until proven otherwise).

A JAG is a replacement level player. It does not mean "average starter." There are almost 200 WRs in the NFL. Holmes is in the top 25 (I don't believe there are 32 #1 receivers, or "go to guys"). That has him in the middle of the highest quintile of NFL receivers, and far from JAG status.

[Jet Nut]

Originally Posted by detectivekimble

The stats show it wasn't close in favor of Braylon.

His last healthy season was 2010.

Compare with 2011 Santonio Holmes in same offense, with same QB. An absolutely pathetic season with weak production, and no big plays. His production was nothing short of pathetic, even with ****ty QB play.

The reality is, the guy has all-pro ability. Santonio Holmes does not.

On 1050 ESPN, after the 2010 season, Trevor Pryce said he thought that Edwards and Holmes were the Jets two biggest FA priorities. What changed between then and FA, I don't know. But, I wouldn't use as proof that Santonio




is better than Edwards the fact that Tannenbaum picked Holmes over Edwards.


As we've seen, Tannenbaum and Rex do not know how to put an offense
together.

So your own point is ignored in your own half baked argument. The O was the same in '10 and '11, comprable? If BE is better than SH how can they be the same? How can you ignore the running game and line play?

This stupid argument feeds into what is found here to often. It hits the ever popular someone else's sh1t is always better than our players. And a unrealistic opinion of some players.

No one expert, media person, GM thought that BE wa the number 1 priority, all thought SH was the better player. Nothing BE did last year onhis way to under 200 yards makes them wrong. He was disliked by the FO and his team mates.

It's over.

[Mogglez]

Originally Posted by JB1089

I'm not a Holmes fan. I don't think he's a #1 receiver.



Holmes is a very good receiver and a long way from being a JAG. Kerley is a JAG. Hill is a rookie. Turner is worse than a JAG, as are all of the other receivers on our team (until proven otherwise).

A JAG is a replacement level player. It does not mean "average starter." There are almost 200 WRs in the NFL. Holmes is in the top 25 (I don't believe there are 32 #1 receivers, or "go to guys"). That has him in the middle of the highest quintile of NFL receivers, and far from JAG status.

This I can somewhat agree with. I do think Holmes is a #1. He's not going to be a Calvin Johnson or an Andre Johnson sure but he's still a very good WR who can be the #1 receiver on most teams. I don't think he's in the top 5, typically the big guys are up there, but the 15-20 range isn't unreasonable. To say he's a JAG is just crap.

[tfine350z]

Jets are doing it right they need WR's to grow with Mark...by having Holmes(veteran)and Keller(veteran) Kerley, Hill, Turner and White....we should be good....dont need another diva telling Mark what to do...as good as Braylon was hes no Jerry Rice...WR's are a dime a dozen..

[hatnlvr]

Originally Posted by cant wait

he's not that easily replaced. just look at the crop of WR's we've been rolling out with. we're screwed without him... I'm just hoping that hill can show enough this year to take over the role braylon had in '10. you saw how much more effective holmes was when we had a WR that could stretch the field. is he better then wallace and antonio brown? absolutely not, that's why they let him go instead of giving him a big contract. but to claim he's an easily replaceable JAG is crazy talk

+1
Just because he isn't on the roster anymore doesn't mean he all of a sudden is crap! If he was so easily replaced the fans wouldn't be clinging to this for this long.

[McGinley]

While the Braytards were busy longing for their beloved, they forgot we drafted a young, tall, athletic, fast freak of a kid in Stephen Hill.

Get over Braylon, kids. You're looking like jilted exes who don't believe it's over.

[Mogglez]

Originally Posted by hatnlvr

+1
Just because he isn't on the roster anymore doesn't mean he all of a sudden is crap! If he was so easily replaced the fans wouldn't be clinging to this for this long.

I think Cant Wait was referring to Holmes here...

[MagroCrag]

Originally Posted by McGinley

While the Braytards were busy longing for their beloved, they forgot we drafted a young, tall, athletic, fast freak of a kid in Stephen Hill.

Get over Braylon, kids. You're looking like jilted exes who don't believe it's over.

Agreed. I loved Braylon when he was here, but there clearly was more going on behind the scenes than we know. You don't have the season he had in 2010 and then get low ball offers for 2 years.

Once he gets some more experience with route running and our team starts to throw the ball down the field again(hopefully), Hill can be what Braylon was to this offense and more.

[FijiJet]

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

I agree to a certain extent. It was never about drafting a top WR or Braylon, its about the lower priced veteran WR Tanny chose to bring in. My point is that Tanny did a horrible job in providing any depth at the position. This team would be in much better shape if the vet WR brought in could actually play. If not Braylon then there were other lower priced choices that that didnt have a career filled with injuries.

Spot on man. That would be in line with Holmes' assessment in his recent interview that the Jets didn't do as well as they could have to put Sanchez in the best position to succeed with the affordable options and weapons that were available

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by JB1089

I'm not a Holmes fan. I don't think he's a #1 receiver.



Holmes is a very good receiver and a long way from being a JAG. Kerley is a JAG. Hill is a rookie. Turner is worse than a JAG, as are all of the other receivers on our team (until proven otherwise).

A JAG is a replacement level player. It does not mean "average starter." There are almost 200 WRs in the NFL. Holmes is in the top 25 (I don't believe there are 32 #1 receivers, or "go to guys"). That has him in the middle of the highest quintile of NFL receivers, and far from JAG status.

Kerley actually had an exceptional year for a 5th round WR.

This board is SO QUICK to judge players.

Antonio Brown, one of the top young WRs in the leage for 2012 had 16 catches as a rookie, before getting accustomed to the pro game and breaking out last season. Kerley had 30 his rookie seaons. He is also 5'10 186 lbs which compares favorably to kerley at 5'9 188lbs.

Kerley was a fantastic college player, amassing big stats on special teams and receiving. Lets give him this seaon to see what he can do with a full offseaon (minus TC with his injury) to grow into a role in the NFL.

[Funaz]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

Kerley actually had an exceptional year for a 5th round WR.

This board is SO QUICK to judge players.

Antonio Brown, one of the top young WRs in the leage for 2012 had 16 catches as a rookie, before getting accustomed to the pro game and breaking out last season. Kerley had 30 his rookie seaons. He is also 5'10 186 lbs which compares favorably to kerley at 5'9 188lbs.

Kerley was a fantastic college player, amassing big stats on special teams and receiving. Lets give him this seaon to see what he can do with a full offseaon (minus TC with his injury) to grow into a role in the NFL.

I agree. I am really high on kerley and think he'll be a good contributer for our team. Hill is 2-3 years away from making any significant impact though.