Why Was Jason Smith A Bust?

[Dirtstar]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

Problem is, Jason Smith isn't average.

He's just as terrible as Hunter, except now we're paying our terrible backup RT an additional $1.5 million in salary.

We better hope that Howard can maintain his level of play that he showed sunday night, because we shouldn't be relying on Smith in any sort of starting capacity.

admittedly i don't watch/follow enough Rams games to be able to say with any kind of authority whether Smith is average or better or worse.

i can just go by the numbers generated by people who do watch the games and break down the tape, and those numbers suggest he is an average RT and far better than Hunter.

[Slikmojet]

Originally Posted by bitonti

He wasn't very good to begin with.

I had knock down drag outs in the old draft forum with the rankings that year. I had Oher at #1 and took alot of flack for that.

my big critique with Smith is he never played in a 3 point stance at Baylor. He was a system guy for a team that wasn't even good (i think they won maybe 2 games that year). the whole thing was combine and hype related. If someone says they have film of Smith dominating at Baylor, they are fibbing.

No you weren't, you were a Eugene Monroe guy, that's the guy you were pimping, I was there and I remember.

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by Dirtstar

admittedly i don't watch/follow enough Rams games to be able to say with any kind of authority whether Smith is average or better or worse.

i can just go by the numbers generated by people who do watch the games and break down the tape, and those numbers suggest he is an average RT and far better than Hunter.

Barry Richardson graded out as the worst RT in football last year and he just beat out Jason Smith for the starting job in St. Louis.

What does that tell you?

[JetsFlyingHigh]

I still can't believe Wayne Hunter ended up landing us a former 2nd overall draft pick of the 2009 NFL draft. As an offensive lineman he may be considerd a bust, but the potential is there. Hopefully we just landed something promising in Jason Smith.

[C Mart]

Originally Posted by k.Rhodes25

Apparently, in 2010 when he started 15 games for the Rams he gave up 4 sacks and had 8 penalties. Most false starts.


A rams fan told me that he was a good run blocker but struggled in pass protection at times. He also said that Smith had a bad injury since the 2010 season and hasn't had the same nasty play that he had in 2010.

Ask your Ram friend how many OL coaches Smith has had the past 3 yrs? What type of blocking schemes (Zone, Man?) were being run?

[FijiJet]

Howard better stay healthy this year. OL coaches will be working overtime to whip Smith into shape.

[george jetfan from miami]

I have a feeling that this trade has been in the works all pre season. It was delayed for a few reasons. One reason is both teams wanted to make sure they were 100% two is that the Jets want to come out game one with a different look power running game that hasn't been seen yet. With Smith and Howard I think they have that all looking good. Just a feeling

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by Slikmojet

No you weren't, you were a Eugene Monroe guy, that's the guy you were pimping, I was there and I remember.

i dont think you remember correctly. I had Oher at 1 the whole spring. if anything i had Smith too high at 2. the big dispute was Oher's learning disability and how if they never wrote that book about him, no one would know who he was etc.

http://web.archive.org/web/200903270...s/top10_OT.htm

[Gangrene]

The Real Jason Smith Story


Fans share their views on St Louis Dispatch Forum regarding Smith.


Not An STL Homer

I have a connection with a person that works with the Rams that gives me little tid bits once and a while. But asks me not to tell anyone until the player, coach, or executive he is telling me about is gone from the Rams.

So with Jason Smith being traded to the Jets, it's time to let everyone in on the true Jason Smith story.

My connection was telling me at Training Camp 2010 about Jason Smith when he came in for the rookie mini-camp in 2009 after being drafted #2 overall just a short time before. He said after the first day of rookie mini-camp Steve Spagnuolo and Billy Devaney knew they had made a mistake drafting him. They knew he'd never be able to play left tackle and wondered if he even had the mental make-up to play in the NFL. This was literally maybe a week or two after picking him #2 overall.

Also, the reason Richie Incognito really was released was because he was sick and tired of playing next to Jason Smith. He was tired of playing next to inadequate ORT's that were making him look bad because they were making mistakes and he was getting blamed for it. First it was Barron. Then in 2009 it was Smith. He complained openly about Smith's lack of mental strength to comprehend NFL calls on the line. There were blow ups on the practice field, on the sidelines of the games, and behind closed doors with Cogs regarding Smith. It finally got to the point where it was easier to release a 3rd round pick from 2005 rather than the #2 overall pick they had just taken and invested 36 million guaranteed on just a few months earlier
_________________

Veni Vidi Vici


Posted: 28 Aug 2012 08:23 am

I think a lot of us deduced that once we saw them move Smith to RT. The question I want to know is was it because he wasn't smart enough? I always wondered if it was because he was- to put it bluntly- dumb?

He always said the right things and seemed to try hard, he just never seemed to do the things he was taught so that makes me think he was just too slow to remember and process what he needed to.

I honestly don't know what his deal was.
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jjray

Posted: 28 Aug 2012 08:28 am

How stupid are Steve Spagnuolo and Billy Devaney (especially Devaney) to draft J Smith #2 overall and then realize immediately they made a mistake after getting to camp. Devaney had offers to trade out out of the #2 spot but balked because he wanted the chart value for that pick. Stupid. Very stupid.
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3xacharm

Posted: 28 Aug 2012 08:36 am

If the story is true, then the problem was with Spags and BD, not Smith. Not that we didn't already know that.
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It'sMe

Posted: 28 Aug 2012 09:03 am



The problem is that the people who judged his potential as a player in the NFL likely "fell in love" with him on film and stats but never bothered to have a conversation with the guy.

Wonder how Smith scored on the Wonderlic test?
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Sweet Jones

Posted: 28 Aug 2012 09:23 am

Not An STL Homer wrote

"Also, the reason Richie Incognito really was released was because he was sick and tired of playing next to Jason Smith. He was tired of playing next to inadequate ORT's that were making him look bad because they were making mistakes and he was getting blamed for it. First it was Barron. Then in 2009 it was Smith. He complained openly about Smith's lack of mental strength to comprehend NFL calls on the line. There were blow ups on the practice field, on the sidelines of the games, and behind closed doors with Cogs regarding Smith. It finally got to the point where it was easier to release a 3rd round pick from 2005 rather than the #2 overall pick they had just taken and invested 36 million guaranteed on just a few months earlier

So, in other words, on top of all his other buffoonery, dumb penalties, and out of control on the field behavior, Incognito was the type of player to blame his teammates for how he ‘looked’ on the field."

Great job getting that clown out of the Rams organization.
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bobfreeber

Posted: 28 Aug 2012 09:26 am

jjray wrote
How stupid are Steve Spagnuolo and Billy Devaney (especially Devaney) to draft J Smith #2 overall and then realize immediately they made a mistake after getting to camp. Devaney had offers to trade out out of the #2 spot but balked because he wanted the chart value for that pick. Stupid. Very stupid.

Got a link to support that claim because I certainly don't recall anyone wanting to trade up to the #2 spot.
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ted striker II

Posted: 28 Aug 2012 09:40 am

Assuming the info in the OP is true, and I have no reason to doubt it then it seems this makes Spags/Devaney look even more incompetent than they came across, and that's saying something.

How do these guys not see this prior to the draft? If Jason Smith is an intellectual boob incapable of figuring out offensive line play call terminology, audibles and the like how is this not picked up on prior to the draft. I know teams only get 15-20 minutes at the combine to interview guys but there are also pre-draft visits. Teams bring guys in, sit them down, talk to them, take them out for a nice meal, basically spend half a day to a day with a guy. Was Smith able to pull the wool over their eyes that much. How do they not see this. It's mind boggling.
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AtillatheBlue

Posted: 28 Aug 2012 09:41 am

he was never a top2 player

he was a top10 guy, who was raw. very risky, and for a franchise who needed players to start immediately, a very poor pick!
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jjray

Posted: 28 Aug 2012 09:49 am

jjray wrote
How stupid are Steve Spagnuolo and Billy Devaney (especially Devaney) to draft J Smith #2 overall and then realize immediately they made a mistake after getting to camp. Devaney had offers to trade out out of the #2 spot but balked because he wanted the chart value for that pick. Stupid. Very stupid.


Got a link to support that claim because I certainly don't recall anyone wanting to trade up to the #2 spot.

I personally heard Devaney interviewed after the draft and he said he had offers for the #2 pick but turned them down because they were under chart value. Devaney actually gave a bit of detail. He said the unnamed team that wanted to trade up was telling Devaney that his guy (i.e., Smith) would still be there when the lower pick came up and that the Rams would save millions of dollars in the process (i.e., lower slot money to sign the pick) so Devaney shouldn't demand chart value for the trade.
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stlguy626


Posted: 28 Aug 2012 09:50 am

jjray wrote
How stupid are Steve Spagnuolo and Billy Devaney (especially Devaney) to draft J Smith #2 overall and then realize immediately they made a mistake after getting to camp. Devaney had offers to trade out out of the #2 spot but balked because he wanted the chart value for that pick. Stupid. Very stupid.

Do you have a source for Devaney getting trade offers? If I remember correctly they would have liked to trade out of the #2 spot but nobody wanted to move up.

Read more: http://interact.stltoday.com/forums/...#ixzz24tDyJIA7

[Gangrene]

The second overall pick in the 2009 NFL Draft climbed atop the franchise’s Pantheon of Failures.


Written by Jeff Gorden St .Louis Post-Dispatch

The Rams have done a consistently poor job of drafting since the Mad Mike Martz Era, when Super Bowl architect Charley Armey somehow lost control over personnel. The franchise has made some memorable blunders at the draft since then, overreaching and gambling and generally missing the boat.

But Smith turned out to be the biggest mistake of them all.

Once upon a time, Smith played tight end for Baylor. Then he added muscle and moved to tackle. The Rams saw him as a uniquely athletic prospect. General manager Billy Devaney believed Smith could grow into something special. Smith didn’t. A spate of nasty concussions further limited his development. Smith immediately fell to the second unit behind failed Chiefs tackle Barry Richardson during Jeff Fisher’s first training camp as the new coaches discovered his same old shortcomings.

The following assessment from Smith’s NFL.com draft profile proved prescient: “Raw in his pass-set technique, standing a bit upright and backpedaling instead of sliding to mirror his man. Locks onto his man at first, but eventually loses his balance and grip due to his average upper-body strength and footwork. Does not have much of a punch in pass protection. Can lose the hands battle on the line.”

That sounds like Jason Smith all right. Alex Barron wasn’t great during his penalty-prone five years as a Ram, but at least he wasn’t helpless against the pass rush.

You be hard-pressed to name a more disappointing recent Rams draft pick than Jason Smith.

[TheMikeIsHot]

There you have it.

Jason Smith will be the blocking TE. Maybe?

[adpz]

Sounds like a Marinovich-like dude in that he just doesn't really want to play football. Also sounds about as 'intelligent' as Mulligan.

I'm guessing we'll know if we have anything in him very very quickly. Guys that are checked out mentally can't be bothered to really show up.

I also agree - sounds like he might best-suited for a blocking TE role. And - hey - with that modest goal he could be a nice fit on this team.

[Kentucky Jet]

Originally Posted by Gangrene

The second overall pick in the 2009 NFL Draft climbed atop the franchise’s Pantheon of Failures.


Written by Jeff Gorden St .Louis Post-Dispatch

The Rams have done a consistently poor job of drafting since the Mad Mike Martz Era, when Super Bowl architect Charley Armey somehow lost control over personnel. The franchise has made some memorable blunders at the draft since then, overreaching and gambling and generally missing the boat.

But Smith turned out to be the biggest mistake of them all.

Once upon a time, Smith played tight end for Baylor. Then he added muscle and moved to tackle. The Rams saw him as a uniquely athletic prospect. General manager Billy Devaney believed Smith could grow into something special. Smith didn’t. A spate of nasty concussions further limited his development. Smith immediately fell to the second unit behind failed Chiefs tackle Barry Richardson during Jeff Fisher’s first training camp as the new coaches discovered his same old shortcomings.

The following assessment from Smith’s NFL.com draft profile proved prescient: “Raw in his pass-set technique, standing a bit upright and backpedaling instead of sliding to mirror his man. Locks onto his man at first, but eventually loses his balance and grip due to his average upper-body strength and footwork. Does not have much of a punch in pass protection. Can lose the hands battle on the line.”

That sounds like Jason Smith all right. Alex Barron wasn’t great during his penalty-prone five years as a Ram, but at least he wasn’t helpless against the pass rush.

You be hard-pressed to name a more disappointing recent Rams draft pick than Jason Smith.

who cares? If the guy p[lays good for the Jets that is all I worry about! GO JETS! Who plays good for the Rams? They seem to ruin everyone! Lets re-visit this player at the end of the season. He could develop with a shange of scenery! I sure hope so. but I also hope HOWARD is our permanent RT.

[Dirtstar]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

Barry Richardson graded out as the worst RT in football last year and he just beat out Jason Smith for the starting job in St. Louis.

What does that tell you?

It tells me STL now has two of the worst RTs from 2011 on their roster. It tells me nothing on Smith other than the fact that the Rams franchise was done with him and just wanted to move on.

il say it again: I don't follow the Rams, I normally don't watch their games and I certainly have not been paying attention to their preseason roster battles.

the only way I can form an objective opinion on the guy is to read what the numbers and so-called experts have to say on the subject. and by and large they seem to support the claim that Smith is the better player. he's also much younger and now he costs the same as what we would've paid Hunter.

so we traded a player that was useless to us for one that was useless to the Rams, but he's younger and statistically better, and it doesn't cost the Jets one extra cent.

probably not an ideal situation we've got going at RT but there is literally no downside to this trade. what remains to be seen is if there will be any upside.

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by Dirtstar

It tells me STL now has two of the worst RTs from 2011 on their roster. It tells me nothing on Smith other than the fact that the Rams franchise was done with him and just wanted to move on.

il say it again: I don't follow the Rams, I normally don't watch their games and I certainly have not been paying attention to their preseason roster battles.

the only way I can form an objective opinion on the guy is to read what the numbers and so-called experts have to say on the subject. and by and large they seem to support the claim that Smith is the better player. he's also much younger and now he costs the same as what we would've paid Hunter.

so we traded a player that was useless to us for one that was useless to the Rams, but he's younger and statistically better, and it doesn't cost the Jets one extra cent.

probably not an ideal situation we've got going at RT but there is literally no downside to this trade. what remains to be seen is if there will be any upside.

With the news of St. Louis eating some of Smith's salary, I agree.

That was my whole problem with the trade, basically having a more expensive Wayne Hunter on the team.

Still, Howard better show that Sunday night was the norm and not an abberation otherwise we're in trouble.

[Gangrene]

I supported the trade before we found out that the Rams were eating some cash to make it happen and I support it now. That said it's interesting to know that background of what happened to Smith over the last few years.

The chances are this will be a nothing-for-nothing trade but I applaud the front office for continuing to take low risk chances to improve this team. I hope the trade works out for both teams, the best trades do.


To me Smith does not remind me of Hunter but he does remind me a teeny weeny bit of another projected right tackle, Vlad Ducasse. Yes, yes,yes - Vlad was a second round pick not number two pick over all but both coaching staffs thought they had a diamond in the rough when before they drafted their respective players. Bill Callaghan was said by Tony ( our resident draft Insider) to have loved Vlad before he drafted him and quickly hated Vlad after we drafted him. Both players have problems picking up complex schemes. The difference early on was that Smith had concussion issues while Vlad never saw the field enough to even develop a headache.

Weird things happen, Vlad developed at a molasses pace but it looks like he may finally have developed enough to make a serviceable if not good guard.
As much as a long shot as it is, I hope there is a slim chance that same happens with Smith.

Welcome to the Jets, Jason Smith.