Foreign Relations

[palmetto defender]

And just a point on the wonderful Moslem religion.
Hillary is very upset by the movie which caused all this (according to her) and resulted in an apology by our government (shameful).
This garbage relgion had to react with such violence why?
Did Christians riot over "The Last Temptation of Christ" or "The DaVinci Code"? No. There may have been objections but nothing. And those were major motion pictures with a broad release.
Did Jews riot over "The Passion of Christ" which had some questionable portrayal of Jews? Nope. Some expressed a concern and that was it.
Does anyone except Moslems go beserk? No. It's all beserk, all the time.
Not an observation. A fact.

[kennyo7]

Originally Posted by palmetto defender

Private to VA?
You either failed or got sued out out of practice. Or just got lazy.
Using a modified phrase - "You are one of the few people climbing DOWN the ladder of success."
Glad I dont use the VA. I like living.
I ddon't care if I know about medicine. I go to QUALIFIED and successful doctors.
Call names. YOU are the loser.

Or perhaps me and my wife had enough money for our lifestyle. That and the VA gave me the opportunity to do clinical research, work with/teach medical students, residents, and fellows something which was lacking in the private sector and something i find much more rewarding.

[kennyo7]

Originally Posted by DeanPatsFan

Karl Kobe, a German company sold Saddam the ingredients for his first chemical weapons. Five other German firms also sold him supplies to make germ and biological weapons...

Britain paid for the Iraqi chlorine plant where mustard gas was manufactured.

Brazil provided around 100 tons of mustard gas in the early 80's before the British funded plant was up and running.

Singapore and India provided the ingredients for VX nerve agent and Tabun.

Egypt and Spain both provided the majority of Iraq's munitions that were designed to carry and disperse the chemical weapons..


Stick to looking down people's throats and telling them to say aaahhh...

Please read and educate yourself.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

[kennyo7]

Originally Posted by palmetto defender

And of course Russia, China and Germany provided nothing? You sure know your stuff. And we gave the Taliban chems? Really? Keep on BSing. Maybe a doctor at the VA will buy it. LOL.
I am a child? Really?
I have actauuly done things in MY life. Not been a sponge. Been responsible in my community. And not by being a condom distributor like you.
Reagan a failure? I would expect a si$$y like yourself to say that.

You would be one of those who would surrender in a moment. And na an earler time convert in a second to Islam to save your worthless a$$.

Where did i say we sold chems to the Taliban?
So because Russia, China, and Germany provided Saddam arms, its ok that we did as well?

[DeanPatsFan]

Originally Posted by kennyo7

Please read and educate yourself.

Ditto:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_an..._1960s_-_1980s


Wikipedia's article on Iraq's WMDs gives a good rundown of the international contributions:

All told, 52% of Iraq's international chemical weapon equipment was of German origin.
Around 21% of Iraq’s international chemical weapon equipment was French.
About 100 tons of mustard gas also came from Brazil.
The United Kingdom paid for a chlorine factory that was intended to be used for manufacturing mustard gas
An Austrian company gave Iraq calutrons for enriching uranium. The nation also provided heat exchangers, tanks, condensers, and columns for the Iraqi chemical weapons infrastructure, 16% of the international sales.
Singapore gave 4,515 tons of precursors for VX, sarin, tabun, and mustard gasses to Iraq.
The Dutch gave 4,261 tons of precursors for sarin, tabun, mustard, and tear gasses to Iraq.
Egypt gave 2,400 tons of tabun and sarin precursors to Iraq and 28,500 tons of weapons designed for carrying chemical munitions.
India gave 2,343 tons of precursors to VX, tabun, Sarin, and mustard gasses.
Luxemburg gave Iraq 650 tons of mustard gas precursors.
Spain gave Iraq 57,500 munitions designed for carrying chemical weapons. In addition, they provided reactors, condensers, columns and tanks for Iraq’s chemical warfare program, 4.4% of the international sales.
China provided 45,000 munitions designed for chemical warfare.

[AlbanyJet]

Originally Posted by parafly

Just my opinion, Romney looks like a complete fool in this situation. His reaction, along with the neocons throwing a tantrum, are a perfect illustration of the dangerous implications their power would have on our foreign relations.

In all honesty, it reminds me of the shenanigans they threw last year by playing chicken with the country's debt ceiling and credit rating.

Bob Woodward's new book "The Price of Politics" pretty much puts the blame of the debt ceiling debacle on Barack Obama. It was discussed here:

http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=247299

More importantly, Barack Obama skipping daily national security briefings six days in a row just prior to four Americans being killed in Libya, leaving Obama clueless to what was going on, to me is grounds for Impeachment. I say that as a military veteran with OPSEC and COMSEC experience when I was under NATO.

That's right, I said Impeachment.

[palmetto defender]

Originally Posted by kennyo7

Where did i say we sold chems to the Taliban?
So because Russia, China, and Germany provided Saddam arms, its ok that we did as well?

Line 1 of post #35. Perhaps you should check with a physician at your facility who specializes in Alzheimers and dementia. With YOU as a subject. Memory failing is it? Good quality for a doctor.
Enough money to live on? Planning for your children to go to community college? Or don't care?

[chiefst2000]

Originally Posted by parafly

Just my opinion, Romney looks like a complete fool in this situation. His reaction, along with the neocons throwing a tantrum, are a perfect illustration of the dangerous implications their power would have on our foreign relations.

In all honesty, it reminds me of the shenanigans they threw last year by playing chicken with the country's debt ceiling and credit rating.

So the Obama administration through their Egyptian embassy puts out a statement apoligizing for a youtube video that they had nothing to do with and Romney looks bad? We are now seeing the repeat of 1979 Iran happening before our eyes and you are concerned about Romney's statements rightly denouncing the Obama administrations lack of preparation or proper response?

Lets take a step back for a second. These attacks in Yemen, Libya and Egypt on the 9/11 anniversary were clearly preplanned and coordinated. No one thought to beef up security at our embassies to mark the anniversary? Is the Obama administration so naive as to believe his apology tour in 2009 quelled the threats against us? Then they double down by apologizing again for a youtube video that the government had nothing to do with.

[chiefst2000]

This guy hits the nail on the head:

http://www.redstate.com/2012/09/13/t...ves-yesterday/

Yesterday, as the American consulate in Libya was smoking and the rioters were returning in Egypt, the President of the United States flew off to Las Vegas for a fundraiser while his spokesman was telling the American press corps that yesterday wasn’t really a normal political day. Had it been George W. Bush, the media would, right now, be marching on the White House with pitch forks and torches. Remember, on 9/11, as events were unfolding in Washington, the American media was crying for President Bush to return to Washington. They wanted Daddy at home in the White House where he could tuck them in bed, damn the security issues of getting him there.

I get that Chuck Todd is a former Democrat hill staffer. I get that the Politico is riddled with Democrats, some former activists and a former staffer for Debbie Wasserman Schultz. I get that Michael Scherer from Time magazine is a left wing reporter for Mother Jones and Salon.com turned respectable, “objective” journalist. I get that Ben Smith, leading up Buzz Feed, is a leftwing journalist paraded about as if he is some sort of objective reporter at a trendy site full of cat photos. [Editor's Note: Totally forgot to include Journolist and have updated to include it] I get that precious Ezra Klein started Journolist so reporters and political operatives could collaborate on the news and narrative and now he sits at the Washington Post and gets trotted out as a fact checker. What I really get is that the American media runs with a herd mentality, leans left, and yesterday collectively fell over their group think as they leaned so far left to focus on Mitt Romney and not President Obama. Yesterday, the American media beclowned itself in ways I didn’t really even think was possible, even knowing how in the tank for Barack Obama they are.

Yesterday, we learned that there were no Marines protecting our Ambassador to Libya despite State Department warnings about violence and kidnappings in the Benghazi. We already knew Al Qaeda was coming on strong there. But we relied on locals for support and now we know the locals betrayed us as they have in the past in Afghanistan and Iraq too.

But the media wanted to focus on Mitt Romney.

Night before last, the President condemned Mitt Romney in harsher tones than he condemned the rioters. It took him until sun up yesterday to condemn them.

But the media wanted to focus on Mitt Romney.

Yesterday, the media spent much time condemning the Coptic Christians for their movie, but we now know the movie had been out for months and we also know the riots were orchestrated in advance. We also know the attack on the American consulate in Libya used the riots as cover for the attack.

But the media wanted to focus on Mitt Romney.

Yesterday, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, a man who swore an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States of America, called an American civilian to ask him to stop exercising his first amendment rights.

But the media wanted to focus on Mitt Romney.

We also now know that the President, close to 60% of the time, has opted for printed intelligence briefings, which this White House thinks are as useful as an intelligence officer in the room who the President can probe, prod, challenge, and question.

But the media wanted to focus on Mitt Romney.

And in focusing on Mitt Romney, finally, of all the places, Slate and Dave Weigel finally point out that Mitt Romney’s gaffe was no gaffe, it was a consistent view of foreign policy foreign to the ears of the political press. He, I, and many others really do think Barack Obama is an apologist. We really do think his speech to Cairo after his entrance to the White House was part of a world apology tour. And we sure as hell think his actions in the past year to foster the Arab Spring were the actions of a naive fool.

But then the media has been playing the naive fool for him.

[kennyo7]

Originally Posted by palmetto defender

Line 1 of post #35. Perhaps you should check with a physician at your facility who specializes in Alzheimers and dementia. With YOU as a subject. Memory failing is it? Good quality for a doctor.
Enough money to live on? Planning for your children to go to community college? Or don't care?

Here is the post again, put on your glasses

And then Reagan supplied Iraq, Iran and the Taliban with arms including chemical arsenal that we criticized Saddam for having. You conveniently left all that out

Perhaps reading is not your forte

[parafly]

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

So the Obama administration through their Egyptian embassy puts out a statement apoligizing for a youtube video that they had nothing to do with and Romney looks bad? We are now seeing the repeat of 1979 Iran happening before our eyes and you are concerned about Romney's statements rightly denouncing the Obama administrations lack of preparation or proper response?

Lets take a step back for a second. These attacks in Yemen, Libya and Egypt on the 9/11 anniversary were clearly preplanned and coordinated. No one thought to beef up security at our embassies to mark the anniversary? Is the Obama administration so naive as to believe his apology tour in 2009 quelled the threats against us? Then they double down by apologizing again for a youtube video that the government had nothing to do with.

Link to an apology? I know the talking points of the right, but condemning something is not the same thing as apologizing.

From what I understand, the statement was not made by the Obama administration, but directly by the embassy in Egypt.

Picture this for a second ... chaos and active threats outside the walls, a very unstable environment, threat of people overtaking your embassy ... what is the best course of action?

A. Actively try to quell the situation by condemning the thing that appears to have people riled up.

B. Ignore the situation, give everyone the middle finger, and stick to your convictions.

Most rational people would choose option A.

I don't think people are quite understanding the gravity of the situation. Just because you disagree with the oppositions views and methods, doesn't mean you don't do everything you can to stabilize the situation.

If Romney and people with your viewpoint had their way, we could be in the middle of the next Arab Spring, except this time it won't be against the government of their respective countries, it will be against our embassies.

The situation needs to be handled with care and sensitivity. Romney was premature and quite frankly naive.

[chiefst2000]

Originally Posted by parafly

Link to an apology? I know the talking points of the right, but condemning something is not the same thing as apologizing.

From what I understand, the statement was not made by the Obama administration, but directly by the embassy in Egypt.

Picture this for a second ... chaos and active threats outside the walls, a very unstable environment, threat of people overtaking your embassy ... what is the best course of action?

A. Actively try to quell the situation by condemning the thing that appears to have people riled up.

B. Ignore the situation, give everyone the middle finger, and stick to your convictions.

Most rational people would choose option A.

I don't think people are quite understanding the gravity of the situation. Just because you disagree with the oppositions views and methods, doesn't mean you don't do everything you can to stabilize the situation.

If Romney and people with your viewpoint had their way, we could be in the middle of the next Arab Spring, except this time it won't be against the government of their respective countries, it will be against our embassies.

The situation needs to be handled with care and sensitivity. Romney was premature and quite frankly naive.

So you are saying that the people in the embassy concluded that sending out a tweet stating they "reject the actions" that "hurt the religious beliefs of others" would quell the angry mob? Did you know that we have protocol in this country for diplomatic statements that says any official statement must be cleared through the State Department?

The fact that no one thought to beef up security at the embassies prior to the 9/11 anniversary is fine by you then? A minor oversight. How can Sortero be expected to deal with this type of minutia during an election campaign anyway. We know he is too busy right now to attend intelligence briefings so he probably never even got word that there was a problem in Egypt.

[parafly]

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

So you are saying that the people in the embassy concluded that sending out a tweet stating they "reject the actions" that "hurt the religious beliefs of others" would quell the angry mob? Did you know that we have protocol in this country for diplomatic statements that says any official statement must be cleared through the State Department?

It was worth a shot. Much better than an "F you all" position.

The fact that no one thought to beef up security at the embassies prior to the 9/11 anniversary is fine by you then? A minor oversight. How can Sortero be expected to deal with this type of minutia during an election campaign anyway. We know he is too busy right now to attend intelligence briefings so he probably never even got word that there was a problem in Egypt.

This is a completely separate issue and has nothing to do with Romney looking like a fool. I never said Obama is faultless.

The bottom line is we are in foreign nations, there is only so much we can do to "beef up security." In some ways, we are in the hands of the foreigners, it comes with the territory of having an embassy on foreign soil.

In retrospect, security should have been heightened, but realistically what are we going to do and for how long? It's been 11 years since 9/11.

[chiefst2000]

On a similar note does anyone else notice how this President gets a pass on just about everything occurring under his watch? Fast and Furious - Someone else did that. Green Energy cronyism and bankruptcies? Not Obama's fault. Economy that is decelerating? Bush's fault. High Joblessness? Its because of ATM's and EZ Pass. Trillion Dollar + deficits? Bush's fault. Debt rating downgrade? That's the TEA Party's fault.

Bin Ladin Dead? Thats seal team.. er I mean Obama did that.

[chiefst2000]

Originally Posted by parafly

It was worth a shot. Much better than an "F you all" position.



This is a completely separate issue and has nothing to do with Romney looking like a fool. I never said Obama is faultless.

The bottom line is we are in foreign nations, there is only so much we can do to "beef up security." In some ways, we are in the hands of the foreigners, it comes with the territory of having an embassy on foreign soil.

In retrospect, security should have been heightened, but realistically what are we going to do and for how long? It's been 11 years since 9/11.

This was a coordinated attack that happened at multiple embassies. There had been intelligence chatter specifically in Libya of an imminent threat. What could he do? We have Marines whose job it is to protect our embassies. Maybe some should have been deployed in the wake of the anniversary and the threats. Romneys statements were correct and inline with what conservatives have been saying for years. We believe that Obama is an America apologist. He went on that apology tour in 2009 that won him a nobel peace prize. Now when members of his administration put out an apologetic statement about a youtube video instead of strongly and forcefully condemning the actions of the mob in Egypt and the lack of protection provided by the host country it shows weakness. Libya is a different situation because we had advance warning that something was imminent there. That blame goes squarely on Obama for choosing to use local Libyan forces to defend the embassy rather then American Marines. The locals ran when the mob approached and the people in the embassy were sitting ducks.

[parafly]

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

This was a coordinated attack that happened at multiple embassies. There had been intelligence chatter specifically in Libya of an imminent threat. What could he do? We have Marines whose job it is to protect our embassies. Maybe some should have been deployed in the wake of the anniversary and the threats. Romneys statements were correct and inline with what conservatives have been saying for years. We believe that Obama is an America apologist. He went on that apology tour in 2009 that won him a nobel peace prize. Now when members of his administration put out an apologetic statement about a youtube video instead of strongly and forcefully condemning the actions of the mob in Egypt and the lack of protection provided by the host country it shows weakness. Libya is a different situation because we had advance warning that something was imminent there. That blame goes squarely on Obama for choosing to use local Libyan forces to defend the embassy rather then American Marines. The locals ran when the mob approached and the people in the embassy were sitting ducks.

In regard to tactical mistakes made by the Obama administration, fair enough. In regard to Romney putting politics ahead of country at a very inopportune time, I'll just have to agree to disagree.

[chiefst2000]

Originally Posted by parafly

In regard to tactical mistakes made by the Obama administration, fair enough. In regard to Romney putting politics ahead of country at a very inopportune time, I'll just have to agree to disagree.

I love it. Within the past few hours Obama compared the sacrifices made at the Libyan embassy to the sacrifices made by his campaign volunteers. No THAT is an embarrassment.

Romney putting politics ahead of country? How so?

[chiefst2000]

During an utterly shameful, disgraceful speech to campaign volunteers, Obama dialed the classless, self-absorbed politicking up to 11 by exploiting the deaths in Libya for a revolting comparison.

“And obviously [our] hearts are broken for the families but I wanted to encourage those folks at the State Dept. that they were making a difference,” Obama told volunteer leaders in Las Vegas, according to the pool report. “The sacrifices that our troops and our diplomats make are obviously very different from the challenges that we face here domestically but like them, you guys are Americans who sense that we can do better than we’re doing….I’m just really proud of you.”

The sacrifices made by dead embassy staffers are “obviously very different,” and yet totally deserving of a comparison.

[jetsmetsrangers]

Originally Posted by palmetto defender

How was it dishonoring. The administration was apologizing for insulting Moslems.
That's the classic It's teh rape victims fault.

And an update. Out yemen Embassy has been attacked and invaded.
Why? because THEY CAN. Obama - a do nothing.

If a presiedent apologizes he should be called on it.

Romney claimed Obama apoligized to the Muslims instead of condemning the attacks....Problem was the attacks did not happen yet....The embassy statement came out 6 hours before the attacks and referenced the video on youtube that was insulting to Muslims.......The embassy statement had nothing at all to do with the attacks......

[chiefst2000]

Originally Posted by jetsmetsrangers

Romney claimed Obama apoligized to the Muslims instead of condemning the attacks....Problem was the attacks did not happen yet....The embassy statement came out 6 hours before the attacks and referenced the video on youtube that was insulting to Muslims.......The embassy statement had nothing at all to do with the attacks......

Romney was referring to the incident in Egypt and ensuing statement from the US embassy in Egypt. The Libya incident happened after Romney made his comment.