Gary Bettmann vs. Donald Fehr

[Jordy]

This is basically what it's going to come down to.

Two lawyers with HUGE egos not wanting to give in and/or let the other one win.

This is the first time that egomaniac Bettmann has met his match.

As a hockey fan and as a Rangers fan looking forward to the upcoming season, this makes me sick.

[Apache 51]

Get it done.

[DDNYjets]

Once Fehr got involved I got bad feeling about the negotiations. The MLBPA was the strongest union in sports under Fehr. The NHL players want payback b.c they feel like they got shafted with the previous deal. Fehr plays to win.

Shame b.c hockey has gotten better and better every year since the strike. Hopefully both parties realize this and come to an agreement.

[detjetsfan]

Rooting for Bettman. He is BY FAR the best commish in North American Pro Sports.

[sg3]

Originally Posted by detjetsfan

Rooting for Bettman. He is BY FAR the best commish in North American Pro Sports.

Not sure about that....but rooting for anybody against Fehr...the stinking douche that made MLB into the non competitive. WWE- like mess it is today

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[JETFAN290]

Does anyone think hockey can survive another strike/lockout ? I hope it doesn't happen.

[21st Amendment]

Originally Posted by sg3

Not sure about that....but rooting for anybody against Fehr...the stinking douche that made MLB into the non competitive. WWE- like mess it is today

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The idea that MLB is not competitive is simply not true.

Here are a few mosts I made on another board:

Since the end of the Yankee dynasty in 2000, there have been the following champions:

Cardinals (x2), Red Sox (x2), Dbacks, Angels, Marlins, White Sox, Phillies, Yankees, Giants -- nine different teams in the past 11 years.

In that same timeframe, here's the NFL:

Patriots (x3), Steelers (x2), Giants (x2), Buccaneers, Colts, Saints, Packers -- seven different teams.

NBA (starting 2001-02):

Lakers (x3), Spurs (x3), Heat (x2) Pistons, Celtics, Mavericks -- six different teams.

NHL (starting 2000-01 due to lockout):

Red Wings (x2), Avalanche, Devils, Lightning, Hurricanes, Ducks, Penguins, Blackhawks, Bruins, Kings -- ten different teams.

Here are the number of teams that missed the playoffs with nine digit payrolls since 2001. This is a slightly arbitrary endpoint, but it's easy enough.

2011 (12 teams over $100M): Red Sox (#3), Angels (#4), White Sox (#5), Cubs (#6), Mets (#7), Giants (#8), Twins (#9), and Dodgers (#12). The White Sox, Cubs, Mets, and Twins finished with losing records, Minnesota being a 98 loss team.

2010 (8 teams): Red Sox (#2), Cubs (#3), Mets (#5), Tigers (#6), White Sox (#7), and Angels (#8). Cubs, Mets, and Angels were sub-.500, Tigers 81-81. There were also a number of teams in the $90-$99M range, and only two (SF and MIN) made the playoffs.

2009 (9 teams): Mets (#2), Cubs (#3), Tigers (#5), Astros (#7). Mets finished well below .500. All three teams between $90M-$99M also missed.

2008 (10 teams): Yankees (#1), Mets (#2), Tigers (#3), Mariners (#9), and Braves (#10). Tigers and Braves below .500, Mariners lost 101 games. Cardinals (#11) and Blue Jays (#13) also missed, but the Phillies (#12) won the World Series. Tampa Bay (#29) won the American League pennant.

2007 (7 teams): Mets (#3), White Sox (#5), Dodgers (#6), and Mariners (#7). White Sox were well below .500. Tigers, Orioles, Cardinals, and Giants (#8-#12) all missed between $90M-$99M.

2006 (5 teams): Red Sox (#2), Angels (#3), White Sox (#4). Cubs, Braves, and Giants (#6-#8) missed as well, and all below .500.

2005 (3 teams): Mets (#3). Phillies (#4) missed as well.

2004 (4 teams): Mets (#4), sub-.500. Phillies, Cubs (#5-#6) also missed.

2003 (5 teams): Mets (#2), Dodgers (#4), Rangers (#5) missed. Mets and Dodgers sub-.500. Red Sox (#6, at $99.94M) made the playoffs.

2002 (4 teams): Red Sox (#2), Rangers (3), with Texas well below .500. Dodgers and Mets (#5-#6) also missed, Mets below .500.

2001 (3 teams): Dodgers (#3). Note that the Yankees payroll was a "low" $109.79M in 2001, before it began skyrocketing to $125M in 2002, $152M in 2003, $182M in 2004, and infamously topped $200M in 2005. It returned to the $200M plateau in 2008, and didn't dip back under until this season.

By my count, that's 70 teams since 2011 to spend over $100M on their roster for the season. 38 of those teams (54%) missed the playoffs. You kinda said it yourself in the opening paragraph about the very nature of baseball not guaranteeing anything - payroll included. I mean, the #2 payroll team has missed the playoffs in six out of those eleven years. The Mets have only made the playoffs once despite numerous appearances on that list.

[Jordy]

"Mario, I'm all verklempt. I can't find a decent bagel in this town."

[Crease29]

Small market teams are struggling to reach the cap floor.

The owners want to help the small market teams by reducing the cap, and thus reducing the players share of hockey-related revenues.

The players want to help the small market teams by transferring wealth from the big market teams to the small market teams.

Just lock these guys in a room with no food and water and a deal would get done by lunch tomorrow.

[BigBensAngel7]

If there is a lockout that means I am stuck with college basketball for the winter???NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[JetsFanatic]

Originally Posted by Jordy

This is basically what it's going to come down to.

Two lawyers with HUGE egos not wanting to give in and/or let the other one win.

This is the first time that egomaniac Bettmann has met his match.

As a hockey fan and as a Rangers fan looking forward to the upcoming season, this makes me sick.

Same could be said for Fehr. The Baseball owners were always weak in any confrontation with the MLBPA. Fehr is going up against a much tougher negotiator then he ever has had too.

Either way, it is a shame we are on the eve of another NHL lockout.

[IHATEDOLPHINS]

Originally Posted by 21st Amendment

The idea that MLB is not competitive is simply not true.

Here are a few mosts I made on another board:

Great post!

The truth is MLB might be the most competitive of the 4 big sports.Before you all say the NFL.The only teams that have won the AFC since Super Bowl 37 are the Pats,Colts,Steelers.

The NBA is a joke 3 teams this year will have a shot to win it all..

And on another note everytime I really get into hockey they have a damn lockout.I may be done after this one

[JetsFanatic]

Originally Posted by IHATEDOLPHINS

Great post!

[B]The truth is MLB might be the most competitive of the 4 big sports.Before you all say the NFL.The only teams that have won the AFC since Super Bowl 37 are the Pats,Colts,Steelers.

The NBA is a joke 3 teams this year will have a shot to win it all..

And on another note everytime I really get into hockey they have a damn lockout.I may be done after this one

Absolutely false. The NFL averages 5 different teams out of 12 making the post-season from the previous year.

MLB is the most unfair system because of the ability of big market teams able to spend much more on payroll. The Yankees, for example, have made the post-season every year but once since 1995. It is not because of brilliance, it is because they have the ability to keep all of their players and sign others from teams that cannot afford to keep their players.

If we lived in a smaller market, something tells me we wouldn't like the MLB system.

In all fairness, the MLB system with the heavier Luxury Tax beginning in 2013 will make things more balanced. Though I still feel a hard cap like the NFL & NHL are better systems.

[adb280z]

Originally Posted by JetsFanatic

Absolutely false. The NFL averages 5 different teams out of 12 making the post-season from the previous year.

MLB is the most unfair system because of the ability of big market teams able to spend much more on payroll. The Yankees, for example, have made the post-season every year but once since 1995. It is not because of brilliance, it is because they have the ability to keep all of their players and sign others from teams that cannot afford to keep their players.

If we lived in a smaller market, something tells me we wouldn't like the MLB system.

In all fairness, the MLB system with the heavier Luxury Tax beginning in 2013 will make things more balanced. Though I still feel a hard cap like the NFL & NHL are better systems.

Money helps but doesn't solve anything. Look at the Red Sox, Dodgers, Mets, Cubs over the last 3 years. Lots of money - no results.

[Jordy]

Originally Posted by adb280z

Money helps but doesn't solve anything. Look at the Red Sox, Dodgers, Mets, Cubs over the last 3 years. Lots of money - no results.

The Dodgers, until this recent purchase by the Magic Johnson group, have been in a financial lockdown for those 3 years.

[JETFAN290]

I believe the NHL's problem was rapid expansion into non-traditional hockey areas. i.e. Phoenix, Atlanta, Florida, etc. Once the novelty wore off many small market clubs struggled financially. Couple that with a sport that is not intensely popular with mainstream America. This looks like a protracted battle between the owners & the players.

[Jordy]

Originally Posted by JETFAN290

I believe the NHL's problem was rapid expansion into non-traditional hockey areas. i.e. Phoenix, Atlanta, Florida, etc. Once the novelty wore off many small market clubs struggled financially. Couple that with a sport that is not intensely popular with mainstream America. This looks like a protracted battle between the owners & the players.

I've said this for about 20 years.

The NHL should have a hockey man with a business sense as Commissioner.

Not a lawyer/businessman with no hockey background.

[sg3]

Originally Posted by Jordy

I've said this for about 20 years.

The NHL should have a hockey man with a business sense as Commissioner.

Not a lawyer/businessman with no hockey background.

Have to respectfully disagree

Donald Fehr pretty much singlehandedly destroyed baseball...don't want to allow him to do the same to the NHL

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[Jordy]

Originally Posted by sg3

Have to respectfully disagree

Donald Fehr pretty much singlehandedly destroyed baseball...don't want to allow him to do the same to the NHL

Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2

There have been 2 previous lockouts and Donald Fehr had nothing to do with them. This is the third in Bettmann's reign.

There is a common denominator here.

[Apache 51]

Money.