Revis OUT for Sunday

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by Ray Ray19

Do people forget who we have playing at CB?

Cro is a #1 CB on most teams, most teams don't have the talent and depth we have at CB, even without Revis. The Steelers don't have a Calvin Johnson type of beast, they are all small players with speed, our DB's have speed. Cro covered Wallace most of the time in the last game, Wilson will be coverin Brown, it's actually not that bad of a match up. Plus, Wallace is only playing in his second week of football, without a full training camp, in a new offense that was a subject of conversation for people who don't think Haley is a good fit in Pittsburgh, and there have been some reports that Rothlesberger has not meshed well with Haley.

Add this to a struggling OL that is playing without several players, Pittsburgh doesn't exactly come into this game a polished team.

Not having Revis sucks, no question there, but this Pittsburgh team is not that bad a match-up without him all things considered.

The bigger part of concern for this game is that it is in Pittsburgh, so they'll be playing hard.

Yep. 284 total yards against Denver, and their defense isn't anywhere close to ours.

[McGinley]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

Yep. 284 total yards against Denver, and their defense isn't anywhere close to ours.

Indeed. I know we'll miss Revis, but are we forgetting this guy called Cromartie? Seems pretty decent to me, idk.

Also, we should remember that their Defense is the same one that got Flacco'd last year for 23 and 35 points. Let's not act like they can't be beat.

[FijiJet]

Originally Posted by Kentucky Jet

Agreed plus some of the same "Jets are dead crowd", were calling for Revis' head if he held out this year in preseason. Now they switch sides again and lament his injury and absence and predict doom and gloom. We can not have it both ways!! Injuries are a part of the NFL. Wilson gets paid and has talent. If he can't do his job we have to know and compensate for Wilson with great defensive schemes. Landry can lead the way with several jarring hits! Demario Davis MUST get some playing time at MLB alongside Harris. Maybin must get some sacks and/or great pressure on BIG BEN. Pace is in the twilight of his Jets careeer! Its time for Sapp to get some playing time if he is finally healthy.

AND if we get a passrush going, I dare say Wilson will be aided in doing his job and we will win!

I can not believe the defeatist attitude on this board by alleged Jets fans and armchair GMs!

I think we will get to Big Ben with our front 4 plus help from the OLBs ( Maybin and Sapp if healthy) and win the game! Sanchez has to play as well as he did last week and he should! Howard will too. BRICK is the key I believe. He must play great! The defense MUST develop a KILLER INSTINCT and crush the Steeler run game! I think we are capable of doing all that! Rex says he is the best defensive mind in football! OK REX prove it or stfup! Wilson was a first round pick a few years ago and got a lot of experience when Revis held out for more money even though he had a signed contract! Why can't Wilson & Cro do a credible job especially if we get our passrush going? This is a TEAM game! Win as a TEAM and perish the thought of losing! If we do what we get paid to do, we will win this game. The talent is there and REX is supposed to be a great defensive mind. Now is the time for him to show up and win the game with great schemes and calls and use the AVAILABLE talent well! We can and should win this game despite what the DOOM and GLOOM Brigade and Peanut Gallery have to say with their dire Doom and Gloom predictions and loser mentality!

Yep. I still think the Jets win this one. Perhaps its good to have this type of absence from Revis (ie a core player) early in the season when there aren't significant injuries elsewhere and while it's still early in the season. Should be good character building for the team in that sense. I'm confident they'll rise to the occassion and pull out the victory. Jets DL matches up well with Steelers OL. Sanchez will have to play a smart dynamic game and OL have to raise their game one level up from last week. TE's and RB's have to be alert in pass protection as well. Hill should be able to toast the Pitt CB's

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by greenwichjetfan

I haven't the capacity to get into it with you today, so I'll say my piece and leave it for another day:

Whether you're simply trolling, or haven't thought it through, there is a very strong argument that can be made against your claims; which while valid, are not at all as cut and dry as you make them out to be.

The impact of the marginal difference between teams playing 11 vs. 11, and 10 vs. 10 is huge. When you incorporate the quality (degrees in a technical sense) of that marginal player you're neutralizing, it has an even greater impact. When you take into account the number of snaps that the player is rendered useless, it's almost undeniable that Revis is worth it.

A lot of it has to do with what people see and don't see. You don't see Revis on every play, but you see a pass rush and a QB on every play. And since Brady is the gold standard, and we've seen him neutralized twice by the Giants pass rush in two separate super bowls, this thought process is amplified.

However, what people forget is the 'group of chicks' fallacy. When they're all together, they look hot...take them individually, and they lose a bit of their luster.

The Giants pass rush is not one player or two players...it's a revolving door of 4-5 talented, athletic pass rushers. Take them individually and put them on another team, they're not wreaking the havoc that they are together.

Dwight Freeney, Mario Williams, Julius Peppers, Elvis Dumerville, Clay Matthews...great examples of pass rushers who, while showing flashes, didn't consistently "star" until they had that secondary pass rusher or that big NT to destroy the middle of the line.

The other point, is that no pass rusher totally neutralizes a player on a per snap basis, anywhere near Revis. Even great pass rushers like Clay and Elvis had down years last year. For all the havoc that Dwight caused, he could be rendered useless on a pass play with TE support. Mario Williams, all it took was a few chips from no-named Jets. With Revis, the only way he's been neutralized on pass plays is by injury. And no, avoiding Revis is not neutralizing him, it's neutralizing your team's best passing weapon, because Revis ONLY sticks the opposing player's best receivers...he's not Nnamdi who took out secondary receivers.

Regarding the opposing OC statement...I'm going to chalk that one up to trolling, because I don't believe anyone is dense enough to think that opposing OCs don't worry about Revis' impact on the D. What he allows Rex and the other 10 guys on D to do by his presence alone, gives opposing OCs fits, especially when you consider that the one player being taken away by avoiding him is their best passing game weapon (with the exception of Jimmy in NO).

Lastly, it's about scarcity. You'll notice that I haven't included DeMarcus Ware in this discussion, because he's the exception to everything I've stated. He is the case that can be made against Revis for most valuable defensive player. However, the drop off between him and a player such as JPP is not as drastic as the dropoff between Revis and his next best contemporary. That principle is what separates Revis from everyone else, and is why he is the most valuable defensive player in the game.


EDIT: regarding the $100mm, I haven't kept up with the NFL contracts as of late, so I'm not sure what the defining criteria is. $100mm seems like alot to me, but if any pass rusher or CB has been paid that in the past, you'd damn well believe Revis is worth, and can get- that kind of money.

Excellent Post!!!!

[First DOWN!]

Originally Posted by Ray Ray19

Do people forget who we have playing at CB?

Cro is a #1 CB on most teams, most teams don't have the talent and depth we have at CB, even without Revis. The Steelers don't have a Calvin Johnson type of beast, they are all small players with speed, our DB's have speed. Cro covered Wallace most of the time in the last game, Wilson will be coverin Brown, it's actually not that bad of a match up. Plus, Wallace is only playing in his second week of football, without a full training camp, in a new offense that was a subject of conversation for people who don't think Haley is a good fit in Pittsburgh, and there have been some reports that Rothlesberger has not meshed well with Haley.

Add this to a struggling OL that is playing without several players, Pittsburgh doesn't exactly come into this game a polished team.

Not having Revis sucks, no question there, but this Pittsburgh team is not that bad a match-up without him all things considered.

The bigger part of concern for this game is that it is in Pittsburgh, so they'll be playing hard.

I think you missed the point of my post. Revis allows Rex to do a lot things because of how good he is. Revis is like having your Queen on the chess board. It allows you to do a lot of things that you normally wouldn't try if your queen is off the board. If you keep the same strategy without your queen, it's going to expose you to the opponent.

[Ray Ray19]

Originally Posted by First DOWN!

I think you missed the point of my post. Revis allows Rex to do a lot things because of how good he is. Revis is like having your Queen on the chess board. It allows you to do a lot of things that you normally wouldn't try if your queen is off the board. If you keep the same strategy without your queen, it's going to expose you to the opponent.

And you missed the point of mine.

No need to lecture me on the value of Revis, well aware of it. We have a player that is still that is as close to the Queen in Cro than most CB's in the league, that said, even without the queen, since that is the analogy you've chosen, the Jets still have both rooks, and bishops' in the field of play against an opponnent that is further depleted than the Jets are.

[Jordy]

Originally Posted by jetrider

Not sure what the Jets gained by ruling Revis "out" on Friday morning as opposed to keeping him "questionable" till Saturday as originally reported.

Steelers haven't made a firm decision on Polamalu or Harrison ... or did they?

Thought the same thing.

Why announce it so soon. Let the Steelers wonder until the last possible moment.

[Ruby2]

Originally Posted by Jordy

Thought the same thing.

Why announce it so soon. Let the Steelers wonder until the last possible moment.

IDK, I dont think it really matters... They don't practice on Saturday.

[SMC]

The injuries to both teams balances out, IMO. Should be a fascinating game to watch.

[SMC]

Originally Posted by Jordy

Thought the same thing.

Why announce it so soon. Let the Steelers wonder until the last possible moment.

Rex already said that Revis was not flying with the team on Saturday if he was out, so the Steelers wouldve known pretty quickly whether Revis was playing. No difference between announcing it on Friday or Saturday.

[cant wait]

Originally Posted by SMC

The injuries to both teams balances out, IMO. Should be a fascinating game to watch.

yes this is going to be a great game, I can't wait. the last two jets-steelers games were battles and I expect no less from this matchup as well. it's going to be a fight to the finish and hopefully gets us a little payback from the AFC game

[sdJETSetter]

Couldnt scan all the pages in this thread, but if it hasnt been said....

I think Kyle wilson can do an adequate job at corner with 24 out,(assuming there will be a pass rush) but im concerned over the missed tackles that might lead to big plays.

ie; Darelle Revis is not only a shut down corner, but a shut down tackler. I fear a 10 yard curl route turning into a 64 yard YAC TD catch due to a Kyle Wilson missed tackle.

Man up 20.

[srobjets]

Hopefully Bart will not knock Cro out this week.

[Pats1960]

Originally Posted by srobjets

Hopefully Bart will not knock Cro out this week.

Pats fan here.

James Ihedigbo is a former Jet that we recently let go, and he had a knack for hitting his own players too. In the past we had a player named Tebucky Jones who also used to be a hazard. The player we have like that now is Patrick Chung.

Btw, I don't think Revis being out will hurt you that much this week. They aren't the Steelers that we're used to seeing.

[chadderton]

Originally Posted by Ray Ray19

Cro is a #1 CB on most teams, most teams don't have the talent and depth we have at CB, even without Revis. The Steelers don't have a Calvin Johnson type of beast, they are all small players with speed, our DB's have speed. Cro covered Wallace most of the time in the last game, Wilson will be coverin Brown, it's actually not that bad of a match up. Plus, Wallace is only playing in his second week of football, without a full training camp, in a new offense that was a subject of conversation for people who don't think Haley is a good fit in Pittsburgh, and there have been some reports that Rothlesberger has not meshed well with Haley.

Some fair points. But Wallace is not a beast? I don't know, man. I have to disagree on that. I'd happily trade him for Holmes, but maybe that's just me.

As for the overall match up in the secondary: Yeah, 'not that bad'. Call me a SOJF, but I smell some big gains through the air, partly caused by PI calls against our DBs playing with their backs to the ball. Our DBs may be fast, but the Steelers' WRs aren't? Come on. Playing defense (and thus, having to REact) always takes away some speed, relatively speaking. I'd be thrilled if the secondary does well, and you made some valid points-- I just don't believe it, as I'm scared of Ben's ability to create plays out of nothing.

Also, as others have pointed out, Rex' tendency to bring the house becomes all the more risky with Revis not playing. We have to wait and see if the Jets can get any rush going at all tonight.

[OCCH]

Originally Posted by chadderton

Some fair points. But Wallace is not a beast? I don't know, man. I have to disagree on that. I'd happily trade him for Holmes, but maybe that's just me.

As for the overall match up in the secondary: Yeah, 'not that bad'. Call me a SOJF, but I smell some big gains through the air, partly caused by PI calls against our DBs playing with their backs to the ball. Our DBs may be fast, but the Steelers' WRs aren't? Come on. Playing defense (and thus, having to REact) always takes away some speed, relatively speaking. I'd be thrilled if the secondary does well, and you made some valid points-- I just don't believe it, as I'm scared of Ben's ability to create plays out of nothing.

Also, as others have pointed out, Rex' tendency to bring the house becomes all the more risky with Revis not playing. We have to wait and see if the Jets can get any rush going at all tonight.

Where does a Revis-less defense put us in terms of other defenses out there?

IOW, most teams NEVER have a Revis to rely on -- how do they get the job done? You could argue some have a better pass rush, but hopefully we're improving in that area, especially against a battered OL. Everyone is worried our safeties won't last the year, but they're out there now and hopefully will step up today. And as mentioned, the CBs we're left with aren't HORRIBLE -- they're pretty much > what other teams have anyway.

Maybe I should be more concerned, but I just don't see us getting "gashed" through the air. The only thing I need Rex to do is show the video from the AFCCG -- we got EMBARRASSED by how much tougher Pitt played and how much trouble we had tackling ANYBODY in a Pitt uniform. Get the guys focused/riled up by reminding them how that felt, then release the hounds for 3 hours and let the cards fall where they may . . .

[sdJETSetter]

Originally Posted by chadderton

Some fair points. But Wallace is not a beast? I don't know, man. I have to disagree on that. I'd happily trade him for Holmes, but maybe that's just me.

As for the overall match up in the secondary: Yeah, 'not that bad'. Call me a SOJF, but I smell some big gains through the air, partly caused by PI calls against our DBs playing with their backs to the ball. Our DBs may be fast, but the Steelers' WRs aren't? Come on. Playing defense (and thus, having to REact) always takes away some speed, relatively speaking. I'd be thrilled if the secondary does well, and you made some valid points-- I just don't believe it, as I'm scared of Ben's ability to create plays out of nothing.

Also, as others have pointed out, Rex' tendency to bring the house becomes all the more risky with Revis not playing. We have to wait and see if the Jets can get any rush going at all tonight.

No, its not just you.

[Borgoguy]

Originally Posted by sdJETSetter

Couldnt scan all the pages in this thread, but if it hasnt been said....

I think Kyle wilson can do an adequate job at corner with 24 out,(assuming there will be a pass rush) but im concerned over the missed tackles that might lead to big plays.

ie; Darelle Revis is not only a shut down corner, but a shut down tackler. I fear a 10 yard curl route turning into a 64 yard YAC TD catch due to a Kyle Wilson missed tackle.

Man up 20.

Correct. Will is to be seen.