Where are the leaders on this team?

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by EM31

And if I hear one more time that if not for this thing, that thing, or the other thing the defense would have gotten off the field. Yeah, the defense is elite except for <insert laundry list of excuses here>

Sorry but it had nothing to do with the refs calls yesterday. If anything Holmes got the benefit of at least two or three dubious calls. The fact of the matter is that this so called "elite" defense has consistently not managed to get off the field in the biggest spots of the biggest games. We allow huge time consuming drives to our opponents as a matter of course. Team fitness was such an issue last year that Rex felt he needed to tell the veterans to get into shape during the off season. Tackling is abysmal. Instead of wrapping guys up, man after man on the defense is going for the flashy strip and often at the expense of actually making the damned tackle. Where is the accountability?

If it isn't big Ben then it is Tom Brady or Tim f&*king Tebow or <fill in the blank QB> and all we hear for the same group of apologists on here is the same set of tired excuses. A couple of years ago Rex could be counted on the tighten the defense up at halftime. Our adjustments were great during the break. Now it is the other way around. Teams figure us out and pound us in the 2nd half.

Greatest Jets defense in history... sigh... what an effing dope.

+1

And I'll add, as many others have said, that the team is built incorrectly. You can't win it on defense like the '85 Bears anymore, you win it on offense and hope that your defense doesn't screw it up too badly. We're following the outdated Buddy Ryan script. It's a stupid, anti-establishment strategy from a stupid, anti-establishment head coach.

Making things worse, his four-year project of hand-selecting the right mix of defensive players has backfired. Bunch of guys who are always out of position, can't get to the quarterback, can't wrap-up, can't tackle.

And the icing on the cake is that all this emphasis on the defense and all these high round draft picks burned on "projects" who have the "potential" to become great pass rushers has meant that we've abandoned our offensive needs and have an anemic bunch of nobodies that we've surrounded our quarterback with.

It's a mess. I don't think our problem is leadership; I think it's personnel and strategy. I don't think the players buy-in to what the coaches are asking them to do. We're fans, imagine how they feel. Being told we're going to "ground and pound" when they know we don't have good running backs. Being told we're going to "get to the quarterback" when they know we don't have world-class pass rushers. Reading about their head coach predicting wins and championships when they know they don't have the horses. I don't hate the players. I feel bad for them. They're not to blame.

SAR I

[Tinstar]

The head coach :
Rex is a blow hard who came to the team preacing 1 message and when that message did not come to fruition and the media and the fans applied the pressure,he folded like a cheap suit.

The Quarterback :
Talks a big game but makes a ton of bone head plays. Who is going to follow a follow the lead of someone who they may believe is personally responsible for the vast majority of their issues.


The Defensive Quarterback:
This would be Bart Scott,he who was given permission to shop himself because of subpar play the prior season. He whose play this season thus far has been less than stellar.He who has a player drafted at his position whom the HC coach has talked about as showing some of the leadership qualities of Ravens Great Ray Lewis. Who's going to follow the lead of this blowhard ?

These r your leaders. See a problem ?

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by SAR I

+1

And I'll add, as many others have said, that the team is built incorrectly. You can't win it on defense like the '85 Bears anymore, you win it on offense and hope that your defense doesn't screw it up too badly. We're following the outdated Buddy Ryan script. It's a stupid, anti-establishment strategy from a stupid, anti-establishment head coach.

Making things worse, his four-year project of hand-selecting the right mix of defensive players has backfired. Bunch of guys who are always out of position, can't get to the quarterback, can't wrap-up, can't tackle.

And the icing on the cake is that all this emphasis on the defense and all these high round draft picks burned on "projects" who have the "potential" to become great pass rushers has meant that we've abandoned our offensive needs and have an anemic bunch of nobodies that we've surrounded our quarterback with.

It's a mess.

SAR I

This is a good post. You don't have to be a dynamic offense, but the days of winning with a great D and what ultimately amounts to a ball-control offense are dead. Rex is the only football mind alive that disagrees.

Everyone points to San Fran's D, but when it counted, it was Smith and the offense that got that team to the NFCCG last year. What good is having a great defense and no offense if ultimately you're going to run into Brady, Manning(s), Rodgers, Brees or Roethlisberger?

[EM31]

Originally Posted by Ray Ray19

I have a problem with the dramatic overreaction from whiny SOJF's like yourself.

That makes me happy about yesterday? Of course not, but a good spaids player knows when to play his cards', agenda driven SOJF's like yourself are obviously clueless and can't wait to lash out miserably.

Save the cliche and innuendo

It was a well played and tough first half, I have no problem going into the locker room at 13-10, that doesn't at all mean the coaching staff doesn't have have faith, it's understanding the team's position, game environment, where they are and their opponent, this wasn't the playoffs, this is week 2 of a new season.

Calling out for leadership after 1 win against a team that was 0-1, in their home opener, with their history, given that the game was impacted by two huge plays, the muffed punt, and the Cro whiff on the Wallace TD is pure crap.

With all the respect that is due to you I have to tell you that you are a complete and utter joke on here. Clueless does not even begin to describe the positions that you consistently take on these boards.

Good teams do not go into a shell on the 31 yard line with a minute left on the clock and two timeouts when all they need to do is to get essentially two first downs. Good teams do not do that. Scared teams do that. Ryan showed his faith in our offense right there. I cannot think of a single good team who would ever do that. That is a golden opportunity on the road to go in tied or ahead before the half and instead we settled for not turning it over. Way to build a winning attitude right there.

But go ahead and blame the refs for some calls that did not go our way while conveniently forgetting the significant number of bad calls that did go our way. Go ahead and blame a muffed punt or a bad play from Cromartie while ignoring the fact that this so called elite defense could not get the other team off the field all day long. Go ahead and continue to praise Rex and Bart for their leadership while failing to notice that their mouths are consistently writing checks that are not matched by their performances on game day.

Let's just go ahead and continue to praise the performance of the bean counter GM as he spends the better part of a decade trading away more draft picks than any other GM in football and then fail to notice that there is a relationship between the lack of depth on the roster and the the draft picks that every other team in football uses to build that depth. Go ahead and try to blame the so called same old Jets fans for all the ills of the world while failing to notice that there would not be any same old Jets fans to begin with if not for the fact that this franchise keeps serving up steady diet of the same old Jets.

Every village needs it's idiot I suppose.

[section314]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

The head coach :
Rex is a blow hard who came to the team preacing 1 message and when that message did not come to fruition and the media and the fans applied the pressure,he folded like a cheap suit.

The Quarterback :
Talks a big game but makes a ton of bone head plays. Who is going to follow a follow the lead of someone who they may believe is personally responsible for the vast majority of their issues.


The Defensive Quarterback:
This would be Bart Scott,he who was given permission to shop himself because of subpar play the prior season. He whose play this season thus far has been less than stellar.He who has a player drafted at his position whom the HC coach has talked about as showing some of the leadership qualities of Ravens Great Ray Lewis. Who's going to follow the lead of this blowhard ?

These r your leaders. See a problem ?

Well said, Tinstar. You itemized the major points of my origianal thread. As SAR said a few posts ago, "this is a mess."

[BleedGreen314]

Don't rule out some locker room "leak" to the press. That will show everyone how tough this team is.

[jetsfan920]

The leaders are too busy *****ing for the ball, getting the ball and dropping it, and looking for flags. The other leader is too busy running to Sal Pal after to a game to tell the media how good you are, then get blown up in Pittsburgh. Good times.

[Mike D]

Ah, Leaders, if we only would of signed Ray instead of Bart a few years ago who things might of been different.

[IRONFAN 40]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

Say what you will about that awful-throwing QB...he would have been more effective (in hindsight of course) on some of those 3rd-down plays.

He showed more fire on his one long run than Sanchez did all day. I know, MS is a Cali guy, that's not his style, whatever. The guy gets hit one time and he's done for the game. You can't play QB in this league and be "done" after one hard hit unless you're a QB that can get the ball out in 3 seconds consistently.

Sanchez is slowly morphing into Chad Pennington. Beat up on the bottom feeders, ***** up every time the big boys are on the field. He is not a leader.

Chad may not be gifted arm wise but its a insult to Chad to compare his game time mentality to Sanchez. If only Sanchez had some of that leadership and fire. I'm not even the biggest Chad fan either.

[Nike]

Originally Posted by Mike D

Ah, Leaders, if we only would of signed Ray instead of Bart a few years ago who things might of been different.

ray lewis was never leaving the ravens.

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by section314

Well said, Tinstar. You itemized the major points of my origianal thread. As SAR said a few posts ago, "this is a mess."

Fans can say what they want, but it was Brian Schottenheimer who took Holmes off the field last season in that Miami game. It was also Rex who later told us how he didn't have the pulse of the team.

I feel pretty certain in saying that if Shotty was the HC,Holmes would not have the contract he has today. I said it before,but the wrong guy got Fired. I realized and appreciate whatRex has done here,but why do we always wait until the house is in flames before we throw water on the fire or even break out an extinguisher.

In our last game of 2011, 1 guy showed leadership,and we threw him under the Bus. All because his QB can't be trusted to make plays under pressure.

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by IRONFAN 40

Chad may not be gifted arm wise but its a insult to Chad to compare his game time mentality to Sanchez. If only Sanchez had some of that leadership and fire. I'm not even the biggest Chad fan either.

Amen somebody.

Chad had the courage that would make Sanchez the Franchise QB so many believe he is or even can be.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by IRONFAN 40

Chad may not be gifted arm wise but its a insult to Chad to compare his game time mentality to Sanchez. If only Sanchez had some of that leadership and fire. I'm not even the biggest Chad fan either.

I actually agree - I only meant the comparison from the scoreboard results but you're dead right about Pennington bringing much more of a leadership quality on the field than what we see from Sanchez.

[Buzzsaw]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

Say what you will about that awful-throwing QB...he would have been more effective (in hindsight of course) on some of those 3rd-down plays.

He showed more fire on his one long run than Sanchez did all day. I know, MS is a Cali guy, that's not his style, whatever. The guy gets hit one time and he's done for the game. You can't play QB in this league and be "done" after one hard hit unless you're a QB that can get the ball out in 3 seconds consistently.

Sanchez is slowly morphing into Chad Pennington. Beat up on the bottom feeders, ***** up every time the big boys are on the field. He is not a leader.

Done for the game? He was throwing passes right to the receivers (and TE on that hot read) that they failed to catch, did you not see those plays???

[Mike D]

Originally Posted by Nike

ray lewis was never leaving the ravens.

Says who?

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by Buzzsaw

Done for the game? He was throwing passes right to the receivers (and TE on that hot read) that they failed to catch, did you not see those plays???

He was 4-4 before the hit and 6-23 afterward. Sure, some of that can be attributed to good D, and more can be placed at the hands of the receivers. But 6 for 23??

He went from threading the needle last week and in the first quarter to the Sanchez of the final three games of 2011 after he took that shot. Batman counted 9 bad throws in his earlier thread, against 6 drops. 6 drops is terrible, but what about all the throws where the receiver had no chance? What about the way he became gunshy in the pocket?

If his performance yesterday is not attributed to his confidence being rocked after that one hit, then that means we should expect more sub-50% performances against physical defenses going forward. Not good enough.

[rextilleon]

Originally Posted by SAR I

This is usually the moment that you run and hide until next May at which point you tell us that our Head Coach is Lombardi, our draft has solved all our woes, our roster is The Best In The Last 30 Years, we're destined to win the AFC East enroute to the Super Bowl, and anyone who disagrees with you is a troll.

Why don't you get a clue, do us a favor, and disappear now, save yourself the torture through Halloween. I wish I could tell you that the Jets are going to be good and we could all celebrate your prophesy together as one happy JI family, but it's not going to play that way and you don't like it when things get rough and people speak honestly so it's for the best.

SAR I

What bothers me most about Ray Ray is his personal attacks on anybody who has anything negative to say about the regime. I mean become a Scientologist or something but cool the attacks.

[jxc]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

Fans can say what they want, but it was Brian Schottenheimer who took Holmes off the field last season in that Miami game. It was also Rex who later told us how he didn't have the pulse of the team.

I feel pretty certain in saying that if Shotty was the HC,Holmes would not have the contract he has today. I said it before,but the wrong guy got Fired. I realized and appreciate whatRex has done here,but why do we always wait until the house is in flames before we throw water on the fire or even break out an extinguisher.

In our last game of 2011, 1 guy showed leadership,and we threw him under the Bus. All because his QB can't be trusted to make plays under pressure.

I'll be danged, I agree with you.

...and afterward Rex got rid of the captain concept to appease the divas on the team as some sort of quick fix. The team has been quick-fixed down the toilet over the past three years.

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

He was 4-4 before the hit and 6-23 afterward. Sure, some of that can be attributed to good D, and more can be placed at the hands of the receivers. But 6 for 23??

He went from threading the needle last week and in the first quarter to the Sanchez of the final three games of 2011 after he took that shot. Batman counted 9 bad throws in his earlier thread, against 6 drops. 6 drops is terrible, but what about all the throws where the receiver had no chance? What about the way he became gunshy in the pocket?

If his performance yesterday is not attributed to his confidence being rocked after that one hit, then that means we should expect more sub-50% performances against physical defenses going forward. Not good enough.

IIRC, I do believe that the deep pass to Hill came immediately after the hit, didn't it ?

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

IIRC, I do believe that the deep pass to Hill came immediately after the hit, didn't it ?

Yes it did. It was one of the 17 incompletions. And if Sanchez doesn't sail a pass over the head of a wide-open Holmes later in that same drive, we're not talking about a dropped deep ball.

I'm tired of evaluating this QB on the passes he ALMOST hit. Or what his numbers might have looked like if 'X' didn't happen. No one evaluates any other top QB in the league on those parameters.

That's how you evaluate rookies. Not QBs who are in their 4th year in the league as a starter.