Gary Bettmann vs. Donald Fehr - Page 2 - Jets Insider.com Forums

dustykeller · 09-21-2012, 04:25 PM

If the players weren't allowed to sign with European teams, this lockout wouldn't have materialized.

The fact of the matter is this. The owners are their own worse enemies. I'm sorry, you can't hand out 90 million dollar contract to JAGs like Ryan Suter and Zach Parise, and then cry about rising costs.

But having said that....the NHL is THEIR (the owners) league. The players are certainly well compensated as it is (compared to what players were paid 20-30 years ago). I don't think the players have a leg to stand on.

If the European leagues honored the NHL's lockout and didn't sign defectors....i believe a new CBA would've been agreed upon by now.

Apache 51 · 09-22-2012, 09:24 AM

Let's Goooooooooooooooo!!!

sg3 · 09-22-2012, 09:47 AM

Yessir..mlb is the most competitive of them all...

When the 700 million payroll Pin$triper$ match up their 25 billionaires against the Royals whose total payroll is less than what Gayrod makes....

You know its gonna be an even up competitive baseball match

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Apache 51 · 09-22-2012, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sg3

Yessir..mlb is the most competitive of them all...

When the 700 million payroll Pin$triper$ match up their 25 billionaires against the Royals whose total payroll is less than what Gayrod makes....

You know its gonna be an even up competitive baseball match

Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2

Is it illegal for any other team in MLB to run things like the Yankees?

sg3 · 09-22-2012, 10:09 AM

Of cawse not Jawn...of cawse not..golly gee Jawn the system is perfectly wicked faih for awl teams.

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Crease29 · 09-22-2012, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustykeller

If the players weren't allowed to sign with European teams, this lockout wouldn't have materialized.

The fact of the matter is this. The owners are their own worse enemies. I'm sorry, you can't hand out 90 million dollar contract to JAGs like Ryan Suter and Zach Parise, and then cry about rising costs.

But having said that....the NHL is THEIR (the owners) league. The players are certainly well compensated as it is (compared to what players were paid 20-30 years ago). I don't think the players have a leg to stand on.

If the European leagues honored the NHL's lockout and didn't sign defectors....i believe a new CBA would've been agreed upon by now.

But the rising costs aren't due to giving JAGS obnoxious contracts.

The NHL has a hard cap. The players as a whole get 57% of league-wide revenue. Not a penny more or a penny less. If Suter or Parise get this much, than another player gets less. The issue is that the players get 57% of revenues. The owners need more than 43% to cover their operating costs, which include all of the first rate amenities the players bargained for (first-class air travel, high-end hotels, meal allowances, travel money on the road, etc).

Crease29 · 09-24-2012, 08:43 PM

Well with Revis out and the NHL lockout in full swing, my winter just became wide open.

Apache 51 · 09-24-2012, 09:15 PM

Think positive.

Fishooked · 09-26-2012, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crease29

But the rising costs aren't due to giving JAGS obnoxious contracts.

The NHL has a hard cap. The players as a whole get 57% of league-wide revenue. Not a penny more or a penny less. If Suter or Parise get this much, than another player gets less. The issue is that the players get 57% of revenues. The owners need more than 43% to cover their operating costs, which include all of the first rate amenities the players bargained for (first-class air travel, high-end hotels, meal allowances, travel money on the road, etc).

Its still the owners deciding to ink these ridiculous 12 year, 100 million dollar deals.

This is going to kill this friggin sport. Bettman is a gnarly little weasel.

IHATEDOLPHINS · 09-26-2012, 08:35 PM

What sucks is I really got into hockey last year.The Panthers made the playoffs for the first time in a decade,I went to a playoff game.What an experience.

I hope they get this settled soon.This sport is barely on the national radar as it is.Another lost season the only people left will be the die hards

Apache 51 · 09-26-2012, 09:39 PM

It's gonna happen.

AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite · 09-26-2012, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustykeller

If the players weren't allowed to sign with European teams, this lockout wouldn't have materialized.

The fact of the matter is this. The owners are their own worse enemies. I'm sorry, you can't hand out 90 million dollar contract to JAGs like Ryan Suter and Zach Parise, and then cry about rising costs.

But having said that....the NHL is THEIR (the owners) league. The players are certainly well compensated as it is (compared to what players were paid 20-30 years ago). I don't think the players have a leg to stand on.

If the European leagues honored the NHL's lockout and didn't sign defectors....i believe a new CBA would've been agreed upon by now.

Parise is a JAG?

I'm not pleased he left but what the **** are you smoking...

Crease29 · 09-27-2012, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishooked

Its still the owners deciding to ink these ridiculous 12 year, 100 million dollar deals.

This is going to kill this friggin sport. Bettman is a gnarly little weasel.

The NHL has a pretty interesting economic system in place. Here's how it currently works:

At the end of every season independent auditors tally up the sum of "hockey-related revenue" (HRR) for all 30 NHL clubs. Last year it was around $3.3B. The league uses that figure to project revenues for the upcoming season and allocates 57% (the players' share) towards the NHL's salary cap. Example calculation:

2011 HRR: $3.3B
2012 Players' Share: $3.3B x .57 = $1.88B
Midpoint of 2012 Salary Cap = $1.88B / 30 = $62M

Each owner is allowed to spend within $8M of the midpoint. So the ceiling becomes $70M and the floor becomes $54M. Now, not every owner will spend exactly $62M on his roster. Some spend up to the ceiling. Some spend close to the floor. The league will track the sum of all money being paid out to players for the 2012 season and see how close that matches 57% of projected revenues, which start at $1.88B but fluctuate based on adjustments made at four different points during the season. The league withholds between 5% and 20% of players salaries in escrow until the end of the season. If the sum of player salaries for the year exceeds 57% of actual HRR, a sufficient amount from the escrow goes back into the owners pocket in order to reach the 57%. If the sum of player salaries for the year is below 57% of actual HRR, checks are sent out to the players from the escrow so that the players get their promised share of 57%.

At the end of the day, the crazy contracts don't matter. Hypothetically speaking, every player could have been signed to 10 year $100M contracts. The mechanics of the salary cap would require those players to give some of that money back to the owners until the collective whole paid out reaches 57% of HRR.

The health of the league is being jeopardized by the fact that the salary cap is being calculated based primarily on income of the haves. The have-nots are forced to spend to the cap-floor. Revenue sharing could help, but salaries need to come down as well. 57% of revenues going to the players is high, anyway you slice it.

sg3 · 10-20-2012, 08:23 AM

congratulations Donald Fehr

after destroying MLB you are now well on your way to destroying the NHL

2foolish197 · 10-20-2012, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sg3

Not sure about that....but rooting for anybody against Fehr...the stinking douche that made MLB into the non competitive. WWE- like mess it is today

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non-competitive?...

Crease29 · 10-21-2012, 10:21 PM

Just an update for those who are interested [insert hockey joke here].

At the expiration of the last CBA, the owners were paying the players a guaranteed 57% of hockey-related revenues each season. Their end-goal is to get that down to 50% starting next season, whenever that may be.

Fehr and the players have accepted being paid 50% of revenues as long as existing contracts are fully honored. They want to delink salaries from revenue, get paid 1.89B this year (same as last year), a slight raise in Year 2, and another raise in Year 3. They argue that if the league's revenues continue to grow at the rate it has in the past, what they want in Year 3 will effectively be 50% of revenues.

Owners don't want to delink. They don't want to depend on projected growth in order to reach 50/50. They want it guaranteed, and they want it in Year 1. They've offered a Make Whole provision that effectively defers salaries that exceed 50% of revenues, and spread it out over the remaining years of players contracts. However, the players argue that this effectively takes money out of other players pockets, since it just redistributes the players share from one player to another.

The parties are closer than they let on. They've agreed in principle to 50/50. They just need to agree on how to get there. If they can strike a deal by October 25th, they will start on November 2 and play a full 82 game schedule.

09-21-2012, 04:25 PM	#21
dustykeller America's Hat Rookie Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 724	If the players weren't allowed to sign with European teams, this lockout wouldn't have materialized. The fact of the matter is this. The owners are their own worse enemies. I'm sorry, you can't hand out 90 million dollar contract to JAGs like Ryan Suter and Zach Parise, and then cry about rising costs. But having said that....the NHL is THEIR (the owners) league. The players are certainly well compensated as it is (compared to what players were paid 20-30 years ago). I don't think the players have a leg to stand on. If the European leagues honored the NHL's lockout and didn't sign defectors....i believe a new CBA would've been agreed upon by now.

09-22-2012, 09:24 AM	#22
Apache 51 Let's Kill them all......... Hall Of Fame Join Date: May 2009 Location: In Morris Co.,N.J.,at the right end of a Browning 12 gauge Posts: 12,652	Let's Goooooooooooooooo!!!

09-22-2012, 09:47 AM	#23
sg3 REX AND THE I-MAN - BACK ON TRACK Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Big Apple, USA Posts: 20,404	Yessir..mlb is the most competitive of them all... When the 700 million payroll Pin$triper$ match up their 25 billionaires against the Royals whose total payroll is less than what Gayrod makes.... You know its gonna be an even up competitive baseball match Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2

09-22-2012, 10:09 AM	#25
sg3 REX AND THE I-MAN - BACK ON TRACK Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Big Apple, USA Posts: 20,404	Of cawse not Jawn...of cawse not..golly gee Jawn the system is perfectly wicked faih for awl teams. Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2

09-24-2012, 08:43 PM	#27
Crease29 All Pro Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,059	Well with Revis out and the NHL lockout in full swing, my winter just became wide open.

09-24-2012, 09:15 PM	#28
Apache 51 Let's Kill them all......... Hall Of Fame Join Date: May 2009 Location: In Morris Co.,N.J.,at the right end of a Browning 12 gauge Posts: 12,652	Think positive.

09-26-2012, 08:35 PM	#30
IHATEDOLPHINS growing tired of rex ryan All League Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,028	What sucks is I really got into hockey last year.The Panthers made the playoffs for the first time in a decade,I went to a playoff game.What an experience. I hope they get this settled soon.This sport is barely on the national radar as it is.Another lost season the only people left will be the die hards

09-26-2012, 09:39 PM	#31
Apache 51 Let's Kill them all......... Hall Of Fame Join Date: May 2009 Location: In Morris Co.,N.J.,at the right end of a Browning 12 gauge Posts: 12,652	It's gonna happen.

10-20-2012, 08:23 AM	#34
sg3 REX AND THE I-MAN - BACK ON TRACK Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Big Apple, USA Posts: 20,404	congratulations Donald Fehr after destroying MLB you are now well on your way to destroying the NHL

10-21-2012, 10:21 PM	#36
Crease29 All Pro Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,059	Just an update for those who are interested [insert hockey joke here]. At the expiration of the last CBA, the owners were paying the players a guaranteed 57% of hockey-related revenues each season. Their end-goal is to get that down to 50% starting next season, whenever that may be. Fehr and the players have accepted being paid 50% of revenues as long as existing contracts are fully honored. They want to delink salaries from revenue, get paid 1.89B this year (same as last year), a slight raise in Year 2, and another raise in Year 3. They argue that if the league's revenues continue to grow at the rate it has in the past, what they want in Year 3 will effectively be 50% of revenues. Owners don't want to delink. They don't want to depend on projected growth in order to reach 50/50. They want it guaranteed, and they want it in Year 1. They've offered a Make Whole provision that effectively defers salaries that exceed 50% of revenues, and spread it out over the remaining years of players contracts. However, the players argue that this effectively takes money out of other players pockets, since it just redistributes the players share from one player to another. The parties are closer than they let on. They've agreed in principle to 50/50. They just need to agree on how to get there. If they can strike a deal by October 25th, they will start on November 2 and play a full 82 game schedule.