RA Dickey- Cy Young? - Page 2 - Jets Insider.com Forums

rep · 09-28-2012, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chirorob

He is virtually tied or second in the league for all 3 triple crown categories. .01 behind in ERA, #1 in strikeouts, one behind lead in wins Ibelieve.

That should get it. In addition, he is #1 in innings. With one more good start and a little luck, he could lead the NL in all 4 important categories, ERA, Wins, K's and innings. That has to win a Cy Young.

That is probably the only way he wins the Cy Young. Gio will probably still win it though. Most wins for the best team in the league. No matter what Tucker thinks the Cy Young should be (i.e. cy young is not MVP), voters have shown over and over that players on winning teams have a very big advantage. Unless you blow away =the winning team's players, you just won't win it. It's as simple as that.

Scott Dierking · 10-01-2012, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rep

That is probably the only way he wins the Cy Young. Gio will probably still win it though. Most wins for the best team in the league. No matter what Tucker thinks the Cy Young should be (i.e. cy young is not MVP), voters have shown over and over that players on winning teams have a very big advantage. Unless you blow away =the winning team's players, you just won't win it. It's as simple as that.

So having = statistics is more difficult on a good squad than a mediocre squad.

Got it.

Oh, and 6 of the last 10 NL CY Young winners WERE NOT from teams that made the playoffs.

JetPotato · 10-01-2012, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Dierking

So having = statistics is more difficult on a good squad than a mediocre squad.

Got it.

Oh, and 6 of the last 10 NL CY Young winners WERE NOT from teams that made the playoffs.

The biggest bias Dickey will have to overcome is that he's a knuckleballer.

But his story may able to buffer that a little (these kind of personality things are always going to be factored in with voters)

Scott Dierking · 10-01-2012, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetPotato

The biggest bias Dickey will have to overcome is that he's a knuckleballer.

But his story may able to buffer that a little (these kind of personality things are always going to be factored in with voters)

He actually breaks the stereotype of a knuckleballer. He is not wild, his bb/k is very good.

He has perfected a pitch that gets people out. No different than Bruce Sutter did with a split finger pitch

JetPotato · 10-01-2012, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Dierking

He actually breaks the stereotype of a knuckleballer. He is not wild, his bb/k is very good.

He has perfected a pitch that gets people out. No different than Bruce Sutter did with a split finger pitch

There will always be a stigma attached to the knuckleball.

It is effective, sure. But it is and always will be a gimmicky pitch. It's seen more a parlor trick than an display of athletic ability. It will always be seen this way.

Ven0m · 10-08-2012, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rep

That is probably the only way he wins the Cy Young. Gio will probably still win it though. Most wins for the best team in the league. No matter what Tucker thinks the Cy Young should be (i.e. cy young is not MVP), voters have shown over and over that players on winning teams have a very big advantage. Unless you blow away =the winning team's players, you just won't win it. It's as simple as that.

Think you're confusing MVP voting with Cy Young voting. Go back and look at past Cy Young voting, 4/12 Cy Young winners in the last 6 years pitched for playoff teams (Halladay, Santana, Sabathia, Verlander), 2 pitched for near-misses (Lincecum #2, Peavy), 2 pitched for basically .500 teams (Lee, Kershaw) , 4 pitched for sub-.500 teams (Felix, Grienke, Webb, Lincecum #1) and among those 4, Felix and Grienke were near the 100 loss mark on their teams.

Team success really isn't a big factor for the award, there's no subjective "valuable" argument, it's just the best pitcher award. Frankly, Kershaw is a bigger threat then Gio is, IMO. Hard to overlook 34.1 more innings pitched, 23 more strikeouts, better ERA (.16), better WHIP (.07), better Win % (.769% to .724%), Kershaw on the other hand is right there with Dickey in most categories and leads ERA, he just doesn't have the old fashioned W stat that voters love.

K-Met57 · 10-08-2012, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetPotato

There will always be a stigma attached to the knuckleball.

It is effective, sure. But it is and always will be a gimmicky pitch. It's seen more a parlor trick than an display of athletic ability. It will always be seen this way.

pretty amazing that a pitcher can make the entire major league look silly with a "parlor trick"

JetPotato · 10-08-2012, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-Met57

pretty amazing that a pitcher can make the entire major league look silly with a "parlor trick"

Please. Because the guy plays for your favorite team doesn't change the reality of what a knuckle ball is. When Tim Wakefield was dominating the Mets, I'm sure your tune was the same

By the way - entire major league? Might want to check again.

Ernie · 10-08-2012, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetPotato

Please. Because the guy plays for your favorite team doesn't change the reality of what a knuckle ball is. When Tim Wakefield was dominating the Mets, I'm sure your tune was the same

By the way - entire major league? Might want to check again.

If it is so easy, then why don't more pitchers take it up? Just because he is not on the big, bad Yankees doesn't diminish what he has accomplished. Try to see through your hatred of all things Mets and be objective for a minute.
Thanks.

JetPotato · 10-08-2012, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernie

If it is so easy, then why don't more pitchers take it up? Just because he is not on the big, bad Yankees doesn't diminish what he has accomplished. Try to see through your hatred of all things Mets and be objective for a minute.
Thanks.

Lol.

You know how you hate how "the liberals" use their straw man arguments so much?

You just did it twice. With a dose of irony.

K-Met57 · 10-08-2012, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetPotato

Please. Because the guy plays for your favorite team doesn't change the reality of what a knuckle ball is. When Tim Wakefield was dominating the Mets, I'm sure your tune was the same

By the way - entire major league? Might want to check again.

and because u hate the mets doesnt change the reality of FACTS/Numbers. Maybe your tune was different when Wakefield was "dominating" the yankees...but i dont ever remember watching him pitch and thinking anything but what kind of a game he was pitching.

i find it comical that you even find a way to knock someone like dickey who had an outstanding year...clueless.

JetPotato · 10-08-2012, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-Met57

and because u hate the mets doesnt change the reality of FACTS/Numbers. Maybe your tune was different when Wakefield was "dominating" the yankees...but i dont ever remember watching him pitch and thinking anything but what kind of a game he was pitching.

i find it comical that you even find a way to knock someone like dickey who had an outstanding year...clueless.

You too are an idiot, because I haven't knocked him and I don't hate the Mets. I've made the statement that there is a perception out there about knucklebllers, and there is no disputing that fact, he will likely win the award despite it, but it will be because he has overcome it. Get your head out of your ass.

K-Met57 · 10-08-2012, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetPotato

You too are an idiot, because I haven't knocked him and I don't hate the Mets. I've made the statement that there is a perception out there about knucklebllers, and there is no disputing that fact, he will likely win the award despite it, but it will be because he has overcome it. Get your head out of your ass.

your posts suggest otherwise. you are either lying to yourself, or your brain really is a potato...which wouldnt shock me.

JetPotato · 10-08-2012, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-Met57

your posts suggest otherwise. you are either lying to yourself, or your brain really is a potato...which wouldnt shock me.

It's obvious you read from a defensive position, which is why you have so many incorrect perceptions and get so riled up about a pitch I'm sure you didn't have such strong feelings about until a guy with a Mets uni threw one.

Ruby2 · 10-08-2012, 04:45 PM

Who cares if there is a stigma about knuckleballers?

He was the best pitcher in the NL this year, and most likely will be rewarded as such.

K-Met57 · 10-08-2012, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetPotato

It's obvious you read from a defensive position, which is why you have so many incorrect perceptions and get so riled up about a pitch I'm sure you didn't have such strong feelings about until a guy with a Mets uni threw one.

i have no feelings about a knuckleball...its a pitch like any other...u r the one thats talking about "because of it" "despite of it" blah blah blah...

i am not defensive, not my first day here...i know who is who.

JetPotato · 10-08-2012, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruby2

Who cares if there is a stigma about knuckleballers?

He was the best pitcher in the NL this year, and most likely will be rewarded as such.

Which is what I said. I made a minor, factual point. It'll actually speak to how well he did when he wins it and overcomes that stigma. It only became a huge deal because a couple guys got their panties in a bunch because anytime a Yankee fan weighs in any kind of comment about a Met, it is taken as an attack.

The above is the first appropriate response on the matter.

10-08-2012, 04:45 PM	#35
Ruby2 Patron and Grapefruit Juice Bitchess!!! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Jerseystrong Posts: 17,025	Who cares if there is a stigma about knuckleballers? He was the best pitcher in the NL this year, and most likely will be rewarded as such.