Coples has been disappointing - Page 4 - Jets Insider.com Forums

Snell41 · 10-09-2012, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglenj

What do you mean out of position? Do you mean he isnt keeping gap responsibility or holding his edge?

My understanding of Rex's version of the 3-4 is that there is a NT (ellis), DT (devito) and DE (Wilk). The NT and DT are tasked with controlling the interior of the line while the DE is expected to try to knife into the backfield to make a play.

I dont know how wilk penetrating into the backfield is a bad thing....and im also curious why you think the LB has an "assigned hole". Isnt it the job of the DLine to occupy blockers and get into the backfield, and the LBs make the plays based off that. If it is a designed blitz, then an LB has an assigned hole but in a base run formation, the LBs need to go to the ball, not a specific hole.

Not being argumentative, just curious where you are coming from with a couple of these views.

No, he has an assigned hole. The LB behind him can't be guessing whether Wilk is gonna rush left or right each play. Wilk is assigned a gap pre-play and needs to hold that gap until he is sure it is not a run play. I don't have film examples of last night, but there was a great example on this site from last week I believe. Ball was snapped and Wilk engaged his blocker. You could clearly see Scott behind Wilk manning the hole to his left. Wilk was between the LT and G. Gore looked to be going into Scott's hole and would have been dropped for a gain of 1 at most as Scott was there to make the easy tackle. Wilk saw the RB move towards Scott's hole, jumped over to that side of the defender to make the tackle himself. Gore saw this and immediately shifted to the hole that Wilk just vacated, and Scott was now out of position because he was already manning his original gap and did not anticipate Wilk leaving his responsibility. Gore had a huge run on the play. If Wilk stayed home Gore would have probably kept going toward Scott and gained a yard. If Wilk stayed home same result, maybe a yard or 2.

Watch the game last night and pay close attention to the draw plays and off tackle plays towards Wilk. Note the times you see both Wilk and the LB behind him penetrating the same gap when the one next to him is vacated. Those are WIlk's fault.

Kentucky Jet · 10-09-2012, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN

DeVito is a Rex Favorite. Can't play Coples without taking time from DeVito. Rex's pension for playing favorites is going to cost him his job.

and it should cost him his job! Are we ever going to see McKnight catching passes out of the backfield? That makes too much sense and he is NOT one of Rex's guys!

Kentucky Jet · 10-09-2012, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KR

Love the Jet Fan base.

Give Mark Sanchez 5 years of poor play and still think hes great.

Give anyone else on the team 5 games and they are a bust.

That is a great observation. I agree with you 100 per cent

augustiniak · 10-09-2012, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snell41

No, he has an assigned hole. The LB behind him can't be guessing whether Wilk is gonna rush left or right each play. Wilk is assigned a gap pre-play and needs to hold that gap until he is sure it is not a run play. I don't have film examples of last night, but there was a great example on this site from last week I believe. Ball was snapped and Wilk engaged his blocker. You could clearly see Scott behind Wilk manning the hole to his left. Wilk was between the LT and G. Gore looked to be going into Scott's hole and would have been dropped for a gain of 1 at most as Scott was there to make the easy tackle. Wilk saw the RB move towards Scott's hole, jumped over to that side of the defender to make the tackle himself. Gore saw this and immediately shifted to the hole that Wilk just vacated, and Scott was now out of position because he was already manning his original gap and did not anticipate Wilk leaving his responsibility. Gore had a huge run on the play. If Wilk stayed home Gore would have probably kept going toward Scott and gained a yard. If Wilk stayed home same result, maybe a yard or 2.

Watch the game last night and pay close attention to the draw plays and off tackle plays towards Wilk. Note the times you see both Wilk and the LB behind him penetrating the same gap when the one next to him is vacated. Those are WIlk's fault.

great analysis.

the other thing is that the jet lbs are too slow to compensate. it always seems like the rbs get past them, and the lbs are lunging for them. when the jets run, opposing lbs are hitting them square. part of that is speed.

CleatMarks · 10-09-2012, 04:31 PM

You guys are oversimplifying this. The Jets run a 3 -4, 4 -3, 46, etc with various combinations of 1 gap and 2 gap control over the course of a game. The secondary has lots of combinations as well. Man, cover 2, cover 3, etc.

They're not in the 3 -4 all game. They're not in the base defense all game.

All you can say is that on a certain play, the front, the shell, and based on the reaction of the other 10 players, what responsibility player X likely had.

eaglenj · 10-09-2012, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snell41

No, he has an assigned hole. The LB behind him can't be guessing whether Wilk is gonna rush left or right each play. Wilk is assigned a gap pre-play and needs to hold that gap until he is sure it is not a run play. I don't have film examples of last night, but there was a great example on this site from last week I believe. Ball was snapped and Wilk engaged his blocker. You could clearly see Scott behind Wilk manning the hole to his left. Wilk was between the LT and G. Gore looked to be going into Scott's hole and would have been dropped for a gain of 1 at most as Scott was there to make the easy tackle. Wilk saw the RB move towards Scott's hole, jumped over to that side of the defender to make the tackle himself. Gore saw this and immediately shifted to the hole that Wilk just vacated, and Scott was now out of position because he was already manning his original gap and did not anticipate Wilk leaving his responsibility. Gore had a huge run on the play. If Wilk stayed home Gore would have probably kept going toward Scott and gained a yard. If Wilk stayed home same result, maybe a yard or 2.

Watch the game last night and pay close attention to the draw plays and off tackle plays towards Wilk. Note the times you see both Wilk and the LB behind him penetrating the same gap when the one next to him is vacated. Those are WIlk's fault.

I actually remember that example which I admit you are spot on.

Manchez · 10-09-2012, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoop24

The guy stands out to me everytime he is in the field.. He wiffed on one tackle but in the bigger picture it slowed down Foster so the rest of the guys could get to him..

I'm not saying he is all world but untill they gave him a chance at being a 3 down player not much u can go off of.. Difference between jones and Coples one plays significant minutes while one don't ..

The guy you should be worrying about is Mo Wilkerson.

^^^^^This exactly for a rookie he is doing well WHEN he's in the game.

They need to use him on the outside to rush the QB on 3rd downs more. I think he can be just as good at it as Jones has been if given a chance. He really can't be any worse than what's on the field now.

Rah_Rah19 · 10-09-2012, 07:57 PM

I can't believe some of you are falling for the media hype over Chandler Jones. If he wasn't on New England he'd be a JAG. They have the worst D in the league. Starting for them isn't an accomplishment. Playing limited snaps like Coples on the best D in the NFL means a lot more. Coples will be the best player to come out of this draft for any team. Tanny is a genius for getting such great value at the 16th pick.

GuidoYaztremski · 10-09-2012, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rah_Rah19

I can't believe some of you are falling for the media hype over Chandler Jones. If he wasn't on New England he'd be a JAG. They have the worst D in the league. Starting for them isn't an accomplishment. Playing limited snaps like Coples on the best D in the NFL means a lot more. Coples will be the best player to come out of this draft for any team. Tanny is a genius for getting such great value at the 16th pick.

What a reasoned, balanced, and thoughtful post. Refreshing to see a new poster who is not trying to troll the forum at all.

Rah_Rah19 · 10-09-2012, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoYaztremski

What a reasoned, balanced, and thoughtful post. Refreshing to see a new poster who is not trying to troll the forum at all.

Shut up troll. This is a Jets forum. We don't need your chowd kind here. Go to patscirclejerk.com if you want to talk about the Patsies.

FF2® · 10-09-2012, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rah_Rah19

Shut up troll. This is a Jets forum. We don't need your chowd kind here. Go to patscirclejerk.com if you want to talk about the Patsies.

Dreamers · 10-09-2012, 08:22 PM

For a 3-4 DE if he has 3 sacks all year that is pretty good. Mario Williams only had 4.5 his 1st year and he was a 4-3 DE. Oh may I also add that Williams only has 1.5 sacks so far this year. How is that improved Bills D doing again? Just had to throw that out there.

CleatMarks · 10-09-2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamers

For a 3-4 DE if he has 3 sacks all year that is pretty good. Mario Williams only had 4.5 his 1st year and he was a 4-3 DE. Oh may I also add that Williams only has 1.5 sacks so far this year. How is that improved Bills D doing again? Just had to throw that out there.

You've got to admit, it's shocking how poor that D line has been considering past production of the individuals.

GuidoYaztremski · 10-09-2012, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FF2®

LMAO...you're falling for this schtick? You're dumber than they kept saying in the hampur when you self banded yourself.

CanadaSteve · 10-09-2012, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglenj

Sweet, fact based response.

Let me know which play the texans or any other team we have played this season, had a designed triple team put on coples.

Sorry, watch it yourself....he has been double teamed many times during the first five games.

Sorry, but your boy Wilk has stunk. NOT worthy of a first-round pick when Brooks Reed was still on the board and we needed a pure pass rusher (which he is and Wilk is not).

detjetsfan · 10-09-2012, 10:36 PM

Coples needs to be an edge rusher in a 4-3 defense. As a 3-4 DE he's mediocre and will never get to the qb as his job is to occupy blockers.

detjetsfan · 10-09-2012, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamers

For a 3-4 DE if he has 3 sacks all year that is pretty good. Mario Williams only had 4.5 his 1st year and he was a 4-3 DE. Oh may I also add that Williams only has 1.5 sacks so far this year. How is that improved Bills D doing again? Just had to throw that out there.

Coples is going to be fine. Once this organization reloads and gets some speed at LB we will go to a 4-3 and Coples will flourish as an edge rusher overpowering RT's. I remember during Mario's rookie year people saying he was a bust and how could the Texans draft him over Reggie Bush. lol

TheMo · 10-09-2012, 11:47 PM

Looks like I'll be analyzing DL play when the 22 tape comes out. For the record PFF agrees with eagle as far as last game and the total picture for Wilk. +11.2 overall, good for 3rd best 3-4DE in the league behind Calais Campbell and Watt.

chrisjets23 · 10-09-2012, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detjetsfan

Coples is going to be fine. Once this organization reloads and gets some speed at LB we will go to a 4-3 and Coples will flourish as an edge rusher overpowering RT's. I remember during Mario's rookie year people saying he was a bust and how could the Texans draft him over Reggie Bush. lol

Yup, its way too early to get on Coples. For all we know, he may have hit the rookie wall already since Rex played him a ton in the preseason.

C Mart · 10-10-2012, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisjets23

Yup, its way too early to get on Coples. For all we know, he may have hit the rookie wall already since Rex played him a ton in the preseason.

All due respect but that's crazy. Wall? His college season wouldn't even be over yet.

10-09-2012, 04:31 PM	#65
CleatMarks All League Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,663	You guys are oversimplifying this. The Jets run a 3 -4, 4 -3, 46, etc with various combinations of 1 gap and 2 gap control over the course of a game. The secondary has lots of combinations as well. Man, cover 2, cover 3, etc. They're not in the 3 -4 all game. They're not in the base defense all game. All you can say is that on a certain play, the front, the shell, and based on the reaction of the other 10 players, what responsibility player X likely had. Last edited by CleatMarks; 10-09-2012 at 04:41 PM.

10-09-2012, 07:57 PM	#68
Rah_Rah19 pray for my dead soul Banned Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 24	I can't believe some of you are falling for the media hype over Chandler Jones. If he wasn't on New England he'd be a JAG. They have the worst D in the league. Starting for them isn't an accomplishment. Playing limited snaps like Coples on the best D in the NFL means a lot more. Coples will be the best player to come out of this draft for any team. Tanny is a genius for getting such great value at the 16th pick.

10-09-2012, 08:22 PM	#72
Dreamers The angry poster All League Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,428	For a 3-4 DE if he has 3 sacks all year that is pretty good. Mario Williams only had 4.5 his 1st year and he was a 4-3 DE. Oh may I also add that Williams only has 1.5 sacks so far this year. How is that improved Bills D doing again? Just had to throw that out there.

10-09-2012, 10:36 PM	#76
detjetsfan Supports Coach Ryan All League Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 4,080	Coples needs to be an edge rusher in a 4-3 defense. As a 3-4 DE he's mediocre and will never get to the qb as his job is to occupy blockers.

10-09-2012, 11:47 PM	#78
TheMo All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,351	Looks like I'll be analyzing DL play when the 22 tape comes out. For the record PFF agrees with eagle as far as last game and the total picture for Wilk. +11.2 overall, good for 3rd best 3-4DE in the league behind Calais Campbell and Watt.