The Rex Ryan Conundrum...

[sameoldjets]

uh....not for nothing but the texans also had a ton of high round draft picks because they were doing so poorly. philips isn't a bad defensive coach but he is certainly benefiting from lots of good young talent. the jets haven't had too much chance since they whiffed on guys like gholston and drob. one guy can make a difference? sure can. if they jets had just two impact players on offense and defense we'd be looking at a very nice season. they had one and he's injured.

as for rex being a good coach, he took mangini's patsie clone defense from middling to top 5 without changing many players. he had leonhard play starting safety and leonhard was just not that good physically but made up for it with hustle and game knowledge. if anything rex took a step back when we the fan started to criticise him for being bombastic. he toned it down and the team went with him.

time to let rex be rex. fire them up.

Originally Posted by jxc

It's unlikely Rex would get so much credit for a being an defensive genius if he wasn't constantly reminding people that he is one. The 2008 NY Jets he inherited wasn't exactly bottom of the barrel either. Not great, but not horrible statistically speaking.

Contrast that with Wade Phillips who inherited a bottom five Houston defense in 2011 and turned it into a top five defense that same year. Then improved on it in 2012 while jettisoning Mario Williams.

[CleatMarks]

Wade might not be a good head coach but he's a hell of a d coordinator and has turned around every team he's coached defense on. The jury is out on Rex IMO but not on Wade. I wouldn't hire Wade to be the head coach of any team though.

[jxc]

Originally Posted by sameoldjets

as for rex being a good coach, he took mangini's patsie clone defense from middling to top 5 without changing many players. he had leonhard play starting safety and leonhard was just not that good physically but made up for it with hustle and game knowledge.

I agree he did do that. I'm just not so certain it's such a grand achievement as some people make it out to be.

Remember Mangini's idea on defense was to "bend, but don't break". That meant giving up some yards but not the big plays. So while it kept the team in games without exhausting the defense, it also racked up the yardage against the defense.

Part of Rex's statistical success lies simply in changing from Mangini's "Bend, Don't Break" philosophy on defense.

This guy kind of sums up the point pretty well:

This attack-oriented mindset on defense will be the most striking difference between the 2009 Jets and the 2008 version under the departed Eric Mangini. While Mangini was content to abide by a "bend, don't break" philosophy and easing off the gas pedal, Ryan will stomp a hole through the car while flooring it.

Ryan's methods need little introduction. Having been the Baltimore Ravens' defensive coordinator for the past four years--and with the organization another six before that--Ryan helped make the Ravens one of the most dominant defensive squads for the last decade. While it helped to have talented players like Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs and Haloti Ngata on the roster, Ryan's amorphous 3-4 schemes have consistently wrought havoc throughout the NFL. It is for that reason why the Jets wanted Ryan at the helm so much.

The Jets were a respectable, if unspectacular defensive team last year under Mangini, ranking both 17th in the league in points-allowed-per-game (22.2) and yards-allowed-per-game (329.4). They also finished seventh in sacks with 41 takedowns. Despite those numbers, the Jets often saw their opponents push them beyond their breaking point.

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

Couldn't agree more.

This is what Belichick has done in NE. When he was with the Giants he had Mark Bavaro and he saw how much of a matchup problem a great TE could be for a defense. Fast forward to now and the Pats have pretty much revolutionized how TEs are used and even how slot WRs are used as well.

You would think that Rex would be able to do the same thing. But IMO Rex doesn't care about offense. He loves being a HC b.c he can build his defense just how he wants it. And he has a GM that will let him do that.

For now.

[WestCoastOffensive]

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

Couldn't agree more.

This is what Belichick has done in NE. When he was with the Giants he had Mark Bavaro and he saw how much of a matchup problem a great TE could be for a defense. Fast forward to now and the Pats have pretty much revolutionized how TEs are used and even how slot WRs are used as well.

You would think that Rex would be able to do the same thing. But IMO Rex doesn't care about offense. He loves being a HC b.c he can build his defense just how he wants it. And he has a GM that will let him do that.

Man shut up. Sid Gillman and Don Coryall showed BB everything he knows; give it a rest.

Kellen Winslow obviously opened eyes; Bavaro was a rare blocker pass catcher...

[Redrew]

From the O.P......"In all seriousness, how do you not pick up on how offenses work when you watch them day in and day out for most of your life?"

I read this line and I immediately thought.....Catchers in baseball see 100+ pitches daily. Why can't catchers hit?

Regarding our coach.....my junior psycho-analysis of him has determined that Rex is supremely confident in his football acumen to such a point that he feels no need to evolve as the game evolves. The loud boisterous types rarely are the smartest in the room. To get noticed they need to yell louder and talk over people.
What has Rex's approach been in the offseasons? I don't have the slightest idea....but I know what Belichick is doing each offseason. Belichick travels across the country, spending days at different colleges, not only working athletes out, but picking the brains of colleges' finest coaches.....Meyer, Saban, etc.....learning the newest trends, the latest offenses and how to defend them. Lately he's been studying the Oregon up tempo, no huddle offense and has put that knowledge into the game plan. Prior to that he tinkered with TEs and created a near unstoppable offense. BB is always moving forward, ahead of the curve.
What is Rex doing to gain advantage for his team? The Tony Sporano ground and pound that failed in Miami. The Wildcat that proved effective for about 3 weeks a few years ago?
What I see in Rex is a guy set in his ways.....and NFL history has shown that type of mentality can get you only so far......think MartyBall.

To succeed in today's NFL, a team must be able to adapt from week to week. Look around the NFL, every team has it strengths and weakness....and a properly built/coached team should be able to attack those weakness no matter if the weakness is on the line, in the LB corp, or in the secondary. Not our Jets. "This is what we do, try to stop us." And sure, when the matchup is favorable, the Jets will win those games. Unfortunately, there's not enough of those matchups on the schedule.

[sec.101row23]

Originally Posted by jxc

It's unlikely Rex would get so much credit for a being an defensive genius if he wasn't constantly reminding people that he is one. The 2008 NY Jets he inherited wasn't exactly bottom of the barrel either. Not great, but not horrible statistically speaking.

Contrast that with Wade Phillips who inherited a bottom five Houston defense in 2011 and turned it into a top five defense that same year. Then improved on it in 2012 while jettisoning Mario Williams.

Good point, Rex makes it seem like HE built that Ravens defense that was so dominant. He wasnt the defensive coordinator for the Super Bowl victory, and inherited an already dominant defense when he became coordinator. I think it was very telling that Baltimore chose Harbaugh over Rex for their HC position.

[Equilibrium]

Originally Posted by GuidoYaztremski

Except you know I'm right and you're just goofing on me. BB has proven he's a first ballot HOF coach.

Delivered by Saint Lewis of the Epiphany's hit on Drew Bledsoe and sealed by Tom Brady.

There's a reason why he was booted out of Cleveland and was not succeeding pre-Brady in NE.

Depending on the legacy of Spygate of course.

[sec.101row23]

Originally Posted by CleatMarks

Wade might not be a good head coach but he's a hell of a d coordinator and has turned around every team he's coached defense on. The jury is out on Rex IMO but not on Wade. I wouldn't hire Wade to be the head coach of any team though.

Rex IS Wade Phillips. Very good coordinator, but when asked to run the whole team, lacks the acumen to be a successful HC. Some guys are not cut out to be HCs, Rex's father was a great example of this, sadly for the Jets his son is the same.

[Limolady]

Where do I start.

I think it's great you and your brother coach kids. But don't tell me those kids don't have dreams of one day working for a Rex Ryan and becoming an NFL player. I'm sure you & your brother would love a shot at walking the sideline with an NFL issued headset yourselves, but whatever.

Rex doesn't articulate the offense well, but make no mistake he game plans for opposing offenses every week. Opposing defenses and special teams too. That's a big plate and I think with the help of Westy, Sparano and Pettine he's doing pretty good. Don't worry so much about what people say, as a coach you should know it all get settled on the field and the Jets are making progress.

[Manchez]

Originally Posted by Limolady

Where do I start.

I think it's great you and your brother coach kids. But don't tell me those kids don't have dreams of one day working for a Rex Ryan and becoming an NFL player. I'm sure you & your brother would love a shot at walking the sideline with an NFL issued headset yourselves, but whatever.

Rex doesn't articulate the offense well, but make no mistake he game plans for opposing offenses every week. Opposing defenses and special teams too. That's a big plate and I think with the help of Westy, Sparano and Pettine he's doing pretty good. Don't worry so much about what people say, as a coach you should know it all get settled on the field and the Jets are making progress.

So then he's a good defensive coordinator that isn't head coaching material.

So you're saying that Rex Ryan has done a great job at evaluating offensive talent for the NY Jets? That Rex has done a great job putting together a competent offense? That Rex Ryan has put together a great strategy for improving the NY Jets offense? Really???

If anything Rex has proven he is rigid in his ways, a dunce at evaluating players, and he refuses to let younger faster guys play any significant role on his teams. IMHO of course.

[Manchez]

Originally Posted by Redrew

From the O.P......"In all seriousness, how do you not pick up on how offenses work when you watch them day in and day out for most of your life?"

I read this line and I immediately thought.....Catchers in baseball see 100+ pitches daily. Why can't catchers hit?

If catchers knew what pitch was coming every time like they do when they're squatting behind the plate I bet they'd be great hitters too. I don't see this as an accurate analogy or even close to being a good point.

Now if you changed that to "This pitching coach watches batters swing at pitches all day why can't he coach players how to hit the ball" it would be a little more realistic. It still doesn't make the pitching coach a great candidate for a managing position if he doesn't understand how to construct a winning lineup or manage a game; sounds kind of like Rex doesn't it.

[AmericanMadman]

Originally Posted by Manchez

How the hell does Rex Ryan become a "defensive guru" without any type of understanding of how an offense is supposed to work or how to evaluate the offensive talent?

How do you figure out how to scheme for that which you don't understand?

Possible answers....

Ray Lewis

Haloti Ngata

Ed Reed

Kelly Gregg

Young Bart Scott

Chris McAlister

Terrell Suggs

Just off the top off my head.

[GuidoYaztremski]

Originally Posted by Equilibrium

Delivered by Saint Lewis of the Epiphany's hit on Drew Bledsoe and sealed by Tom Brady.

There's a reason why he was booted out of Cleveland and was not succeeding pre-Brady in NE.

Depending on the legacy of Spygate of course.

Your knowledge of football history is a bit fuzzy there. BB was vilified in Cleveland not because he was a lousy coach, but because he dared cut favorite Bernie Kosar. He actually turned around a horrible team into a playoff team in '94 with one of the best defenses in the league that year. The following year, when Modell announced he was going to fuk over the fan base and move to Baltimore, BB was fired. In New England, he had one losing season with a severely declining Bledsoe before Brady. BFD.

Back to the topic at hand. It is astounding how little Rex knows about offense and it's reasonable for Jets fans to criticize even his defensive coaching ability this year. Can't stop a running nose bleed this season.

[Equilibrium]

Originally Posted by GuidoYaztremski

Your knowledge of football history is a bit fuzzy there. BB was vilified in Cleveland not because he was a lousy coach, but because he dared cut favorite Bernie Kosar. He actually turned around a horrible team into a playoff team in '94 with one of the best defenses in the league that year. The following year, when Modell announced he was going to fuk over the fan base and move to Baltimore, BB was fired. In New England, he had one losing season with a severely declining Bledsoe before Brady. BFD.

I admittedly am not familiar with his Cleveland experience. In that case, if Belichick was already hated by the fan base, then why did Modell fire him anyway if he had achieved some success?

Do you believe that Belichick envisioned Brady to succeed Bledsoe as the franchise QB and drafted him with that purpose?

[Limolady]

Originally Posted by Manchez

So then he's a good defensive coordinator that isn't head coaching material.

So you're saying that Rex Ryan has done a great job at evaluating offensive talent for the NY Jets? That Rex has done a great job putting together a competent offense? That Rex Ryan has put together a great strategy for improving the NY Jets offense? Really???

If anything Rex has proven he is rigid in his ways, a dunce at evaluating players, and he refuses to let younger faster guys play any significant role on his teams. IMHO of course.

Disagree. I'm saying he's doing a great job of playing the hand he's being dealt. The NFL is a business first & foremost. This is NY and supposed to be a pack leader business model for franchises generating revenue. Sanchez doing GQ. Tebow doing Vogue. Mrs. Woody Johnson endorsing designer Jet tees. BTW guys it's a nice tee & would make a great Christmas gift for the Jet fan wife or galpal. Check it out on the official team site's jets shop, all sizes. (-;

Anyway, do you seriously believe everything that goes on behind closed doors is because Rex says so? The only mistake he made is getting to the post season the minute he walked in the door, backed it up the following year and set the bar very high heading into a lockout season where football as you used to know it is now gone.

And a head coach is supposed to be the Commander in Chief & game planner, not the evaluator of soliders in the field. Sparano is installing a new system. Pettine is holding the course and I dare you to say a bad word about Mike Westhoff on ST. These are his Generals who IMO are working their magic to be consistent building a foundation for the team. I think he's a great evaluator just by looking at the people who surround and support him. It's not easy consistently working on the fly. Losing Darrelle & Santonio. Haven't seen Dustin & Sione since opening day during warm ups on the field. Rookies with hamstrings losing valuable playing time. GM on round the clock waiver wire calls scouring for patches. Yeah, that Rex really sucks at handling all this on a daily.

[GuidoYaztremski]

Originally Posted by Equilibrium

I admittedly am not familiar with his Cleveland experience. In that case, if Belichick was already hated by the fan base, then why did Modell fire him anyway if he had achieved some success?

Do you believe that Belichick envisioned Brady to succeed Bledsoe as the franchise QB and drafted him with that purpose?

Modell was starting "fresh" in Baltimore and BB wasn't in the plan. BB alienated alot of people in Cleveland from cutting Kosar, to being a lousy interview (that hasn't changed!) to micromanaging the operation with little delegation.
He has said since that the biggest thing he learned in Cleveland was to not try and do everything himself.

I think Brady was taken as a low cost/low risk potential option to replace Bledsoe much as Mallet may have been taken for the same reasons to replace Brady. (except at this rate Mallet will be long gone before Brady is ready to hang up the cleats). Remember Brady was a winner at Michigan and a known hard worker with a smart football mind and team captain. He won 20-of 25 games in his two years as a starter. His first year on the Pats he was the 4th QB and by season's end he was 2nd. When Bledsoe got hurt, BB was confident in Brady's ability to do the job and Drew never got his job back once healthy.

[JetsMike]

Originally Posted by GuidoYaztremski

Except you know I'm right and you're just goofing on me. BB has proven he's a first ballot HOF coach.

Whats his record as a head coach without Brady I am just curious?

[patman]

Originally Posted by southparkcpa

Same as Bellicheats genius was exposed by Tom Brady.

When Brady is done..so is mumble mouth.

Beilichick won as many games with Cassel as the qb than ryan did in his best year.

[southparkcpa]

Originally Posted by patman

Beilichick won as many games with Cassel as the qb than ryan did in his best year.

You also missed the playoffs that year......

Whats his record without Brady from Cleveland to now?