Chandler Jones

[Gastineau99]

Originally Posted by Ruby2

Lmao You're hopeless.

You are hopeless. Pay the $40 and get NFL Gamecast, watch some Pats games and get back to me. I know you haven't watched Jones play, or else we wouldn't be having this conversation. He looks a lot like Pierre-Paul, but he is waaaay ahead of where Pierre-Paul was at this point in their careers.

Jones comes from a great family of athletes. Great character guy. Hard worker with a great motor. Did you know that Chandler Jones' brother is the best fighter in the world right now?

[TheMikeIsHot]

Remember when everyone thought McCourty was the steal of his draft? How'd that work out?

This is 6 weeks, and he looks very good. But as soon as someone finds a weakness in his game (and somebody will) others will exploit it.

[Ruby2]

Originally Posted by Gastineau99

You are hopeless. Pay the $40 and get NFL Gamecast, watch some Pats games and get back to me. I know you haven't watched Jones play, or else we wouldn't be having this conversation. He looks a lot like Pierre-Paul, but he is waaaay ahead of where Pierre-Paul was at this point in their careers.

Jones comes from a great family of athletes. Great character guy. Hard worker with a great motor. Did you know that Chandler Jones' brother is the best fighter in the world right now?

For the second time, Jones could be the second coming of LT and it wouldn't matter.

The Jets picked Coples over Jones in the draft, so it is safe to say that they preferred him as a player. I am pretty sure we can both agree on that, correct?

So based on that scenario, do you really think that 6 pro games would really change their opinion?

I don't see how that is possible.

[DDNYjets]

I think that Jones will end up being the better player. He is playing a position that is more conducive to making impact plays and he is on a team where he will be playing with a lead a lot. That said, I also think he is just a flat out more talented player. It is what it is.

Hopefully this organization comes to their senses and moves to the 4-3 with both Coples and Wilk inside where they can get mismatches on Centers and Guards. We need to get at least one legitimate pass rushing DE and an athletic MLB.

Then we will be straight.

[Gastineau99]

Originally Posted by positive

Brooks Reed is overrated. A non-dynamic slightly stiff hipped player with a high motor. Wilkerson is much more valuable than Reed. Plus, Demario Davis will probably be just as good as Reed. Much easier to find a replacement for Reed than Wilkerson.

You might be right. I loved Reed but Wilkerson is probably going to be the better all-around player, he just won't have gaudy numbers. Our lack of a pass rush from the outside makes me wish we had taken him, but Reed prolly looks better than he is because of the surrounding sat he has in Houston. In our scheme he might not be much better than McIntyre.

[Gastineau99]

Originally Posted by Ruby2

For the second time, Jones could be the second coming of LT and it wouldn't matter.

The Jets picked Coples over Jones in the draft, so it is safe to say that they preferred him as a player. I am pretty sure we can both agree on that, correct?

So based on that scenario, do you really think that 6 pro games would really change their opinion?

I don't see how that is possible.

Yes, 6 games can definitely make them change their opinion. Why wouldn't it? Coples has had conditioning issues, issues with effort in practice, complained about playing too much in the preseason, etc.

Jets liked Jones, there was just a limited amount of film on him at Cuse, so he was seemed as a bit of a reach at 16. They probably saw Coples as a safer pick because they probably saw him as, worst case scenario, a solid run stuffing DT/DE.

I think after watching Jones' play at the NFL level through 6 games, and seeing that he is already a force as a pass rusher that teams need to game plan for, the Jets would easily change their pick. Why is that so hard to comprehend? lol

[Ruby2]

Originally Posted by Gastineau99

Yes, 6 games can definitely make them change their opinion. Why wouldn't it? Coples has had conditioning issues, issues with effort in practice, complained about playing too much in the preseason, etc.

Jets liked Jones, there was just a limited amount of film on him at Cuse, so he was seemed as a bit of a reach at 16. They probably saw Coples as a safer pick because they probably saw him as, worst case scenario, a solid run stuffing DT/DE.

I think after watching Jones' play at the NFL level through 6 games, and seeing that he is already a force as a pass rusher that teams need to game plan for, the Jets would easily change their pick. Why is that so hard to comprehend? lol

Show me where it has been reported that Coples has had issue efforts in practice.

And no, 6 games isn't enough to make a decision. The first 5 games Coples was barely even playing. He played yesterday and had a great game. At a minimum, and a very bare minimum at that we should at least wait a year before proclaiming so and so is better.

[jetsfan1983]

Originally Posted by Gastineau99

You are hopeless. Pay the $40 and get NFL Gamecast, watch some Pats games and get back to me. I know you haven't watched Jones play, or else we wouldn't be having this conversation. He looks a lot like Pierre-Paul, but he is waaaay ahead of where Pierre-Paul was at this point in their careers.

Jones comes from a great family of athletes. Great character guy. Hard worker with a great motor. Did you know that Chandler Jones' brother is the best fighter in the world right now?

And Arthur Jones is a waste as an NFL player so what does that matter? I watch MMA as close as anyone but Bones' success means nothing when it comes to Chandler.

Now I liked Chandler coming out, but to compare him to Pierre Paul thus far isn't accurate.


And as big a fan as I am of Chandler (who many people here probably couldn't have recognized in a lineup until draft day) I worry about injury troubles. He had quite a few problems with injuries at Syracuse, Bones has injury issues, and Arthur has injury issues. They don't tend to go away.

[Gastineau99]

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

I think that Jones will end up being the better player. He is playing a position that is more conducive to making impact plays and he is on a team where he will be playing with a lead a lot. That said, I also think he is just a flat out more talented player. It is what it is.

Hopefully this organization comes to their senses and moves to the 4-3 with both Coples and Wilk inside where they can get mismatches on Centers and Guards. We need to get at least one legitimate pass rushing DE and an athletic MLB.

Then we will be straight.

If we move to a 4-3 and neither Wilk or Coples are DEs in that system, we will have even bigger holes to fill at DE. I think Wilkerson an maybe Copkes would have to play DE if we were to go to a 4-3 since we have guys in Devito, Ellis, Pouha that can play DT, but we don't have much as far as a 4-3 DE on TE roster other than Wilk, Coples and maybe Pace and Thomas.

[jetsfan1983]

Originally Posted by Gastineau99

If we move to a 4-3 and neither Wilk or Coples are DEs in that system, we will have even bigger holes to fill at DE. I think Wilkerson an maybe Copkes would have to play DE if we were to go to a 4-3 since we have guys in Devito, Ellis, Pouha that can play DT, but we don't have much as far as a 4-3 DE on TE roster other than Wilk, Coples and maybe Pace and Thomas.

4-3 vs 3-4 is such an overrated discussion. We are fine with what we play... On clear passing downs we have 4 guys rushing. On running downs, it's basically a 3-4, but not one like New England and not one like Pitt.

On clear passing downs Coples will be moved around but very often rushing from the inside... Exactly what we want. Mo is not yet a very good pass rusher so I really don't care where he's rushing from.


And I still predict that Chandler runs into injury problems in his career. I liked him a lot as a player, but that was a big question for me. And a big part of being good is staying healthy.

[Gastineau99]

Originally Posted by jetsfan1983

And Arthur Jones is a waste as an NFL player so what does that matter? I watch MMA as close as anyone but Bones' success means nothing when it comes to Chandler.

Now I liked Chandler coming out, but to compare him to Pierre Paul thus far isn't accurate.


And as big a fan as I am of Chandler (who many people here probably couldn't have recognized in a lineup until draft day) I worry about injury troubles. He had quite a few problems with injuries at Syracuse, Bones has injury issues, and Arthur has injury issues. They don't tend to go away.

He looks a lot like Pierre-Paul to me in the way he plays utilizing his length and agility when rushing the passer. Seems like he has really long arms, and never lets blockers get to his body, he has a great lean, excellent speed/burst upfield and a nice spin move.

Great call on te injuries. That could prove to be an issue, especially at the NFl level.

[teddyld]

In his first start yesterday, Coples had 2.5 sacks, with one being nullified by Luck intentionally grounding the ball on his way down and cats are talking about Chandler Jones??? The two teams play next week so we will all see Coples and Jones live and we can compare and contrast for ourselves. A little perspective, J.J. Watt had only 5.5 sacks all of last year yet in year 2 he is a dominant player. Writing a player off after 6 games into their rookie season, better yet, writing someone off after they have a multi-sack game for your team and then coveting your rivals player is silly. Start a thread after their head-to-head match up please and I hope that you will be rooting for the player wearing Green and White to have the better game.

[jetsfan1983]

Originally Posted by Gastineau99

He looks a lot like Pierre-Paul to me in the way he plays utilizing his length and agility when rushing the passer. Seems like he has really long arms, and never lets blockers get to his body, he has a great lean, excellent speed/burst upfield and a nice spin move.

Great call on te injuries. That could prove to be an issue, especially at the NFl level.

What I thought made Chandler potentially special was his hips and athelticism. In that way, he's definitely like Pierre paul. And Pierre paul I don't even think was the 2nd best player on his defense at USF. I think Allen (safety with the Eagles) and even Selvie was better. For whatever reason, the Giants really got it to click with him. I just didn't see the effort he shows now with the Giants.

Chandler was crazy to evaluate though because his hips seem to operate independent of his body. His lower half could still be moving forward at the same time his upper half of his body was getting beaten by the offensive lineman. Either way, he was strong and quick. His quickness wasn't elite though... But because of the athleticism and weird body type, he seems to be able to find a way to beat offensive linemen. Actually, much like Coples. Coples is extremely difficult to block on the inside.

I would've been happy with Chandler, but the injury stuff was the red flag with me. I would've been happy with Coples, but the mental thing scared me. (It's possible though that he's just someone like Robinson Cano where you can't tell that he gives a ****, but he actually does). Melvin INgram I liked more than all of them, but the body type scared me.

I still predict Ingram ends up the best, but Coples has the best upside. Chandler is an exciting guy though and it does suck he went to New England. Was hoping they could make another ****ty pick like Solder (and so many others over the last several years)

[LadainianIMnotDONE]

Originally Posted by teddyld

In his first start yesterday, Coples had 2.5 sacks, with one being nullified by Luck intentionally grounding the ball on his way down and cats are talking about Chandler Jones??? The two teams play next week so we will all see Coples and Jones live and we can compare and contrast for ourselves. A little perspective, J.J. Watt had only 5.5 sacks all of last year yet in year 2 he is a dominant player. Writing a player off after 6 games into their rookie season, better yet, writing someone off after they have a multi-sack game for your team and then coveting your rivals player is silly. Start a thread after their head-to-head match up please and I hope that you will be rooting for the player wearing Green and White to have the better game.

NO WAY am I writing Coples off but like someone said above ... the kid resembles JPP. Thats the type of guy we need here more than anything. Not saying Coples won't be good ... he reminds me of a young Trevor Pryce ... thats cool and all but Chandler looks like a young Freeney,Abraham, JPP ... Thats the guy we needed. Do I hate Coples? No ... I like the guy but watching Chandler Jones ball the way he has doesn't make me feel any better. Coples is a solid guy but he's not an elite pass rusher guy. Doesn't have the speed. Elite pass rushers have that extra burst and technical/athletic skill. Coples doesn't have that burst ... nothing wrong with that I just wish we went after a guy with that burst.

[bgivs21]

The argument with picking Coples during the draft wasn't over Jones, in fact Jones was supposed to go later 3rd or 2nd round pick. It was coples vs ingram, or an o-lineman, or a WR. That being said I liked the Coples pick.

This comparison imo is silly. Lets wait a year. You never know what will happen. I liked what Coples did yesterday with more PT, BUT it was against the Colts o-line. Jones seems to be having a good year, BUT a lot of his stats have come from the Pats having big leads on teams.

Who knows, they both could end up sucking and Bruce Irvin could be the best defensive player picked.

Im just happy Coples has shown signs of life after watching Golhston flatline for 5 years.

[long island leprechaun]

Originally Posted by Gastineau99

Yes, 6 games can definitely make them change their opinion. Why wouldn't it? Coples has had conditioning issues, issues with effort in practice, complained about playing too much in the preseason, etc.

Jets liked Jones, there was just a limited amount of film on him at Cuse, so he was seemed as a bit of a reach at 16. They probably saw Coples as a safer pick because they probably saw him as, worst case scenario, a solid run stuffing DT/DE.

I think after watching Jones' play at the NFL level through 6 games, and seeing that he is already a force as a pass rusher that teams need to game plan for, the Jets would easily change their pick. Why is that so hard to comprehend? lol

Where did you get this nonsense from? Conditioning issues? Why, because he was winded in the fourth quarter of a pre-season game? Effort in practice? He was lauded as having a great pre-season practice with much promise. Complained about playing too much? He had an expression on his face when he was told to go in with the second team late in the game. Didn't say a word and immediately clarified that he had no problem playing. Rex made some comments in the press that jacked that issue up when it should have been left in the locker room. You have every right to prefer Jones, but don't go making stuff up...

[teddyld]

Originally Posted by LadainianIMnotDONE

NO WAY am I writing Coples off but like someone said above ... the kid resembles JPP. Thats the type of guy we need here more than anything. Not saying Coples won't be good ... he reminds me of a young Trevor Pryce ... thats cool and all but Chandler looks like a young Freeney,Abraham, JPP ... Thats the guy we needed. Do I hate Coples? No ... I like the guy but watching Chandler Jones ball the way he has doesn't make me feel any better. Coples is a solid guy but he's not an elite pass rusher guy. Doesn't have the speed. Elite pass rushers have that extra burst and technical/athletic skill. Coples doesn't have that burst ... nothing wrong with that I just wish we went after a guy with that burst.

I get you, but JPP in his rookie season had 4.5 sacks. Players adjust at different rates. I think Coples looks slow to us now because he is still thinking out there and not reacting. As he understands whats happening and can anticipate we will see the player that dominated the senior bowl against his college peers.

Also, though I agree Jones is a talent, the Pats system always over inflates a players value and even their stats. McCourty had what, 10 picks as a rookie. Now... I love to see him lined up against our wideouts. Mayo, a tackling machine early on, now...he's ok but not the next Ray Lewis. Coples' upside is better than anyone that was on the board when he was drafted I know we all , especially me, have Gholsten Anxiety, a terrible condition, but Coples is the real deal and will actually reach his potential. Heck in his first start he has already surpassed Vernon's CAREER production. Let's give him time and let the kid blossom.

[Gastineau99]

Originally Posted by Ruby2

Show me where it has been reported that Coples has had issue efforts in practice.

And no, 6 games isn't enough to make a decision. The first 5 games Coples was barely even playing. He played yesterday and had a great game. At a minimum, and a very bare minimum at that we should at least wait a year before proclaiming so and so is better.

I guess you don't read about the jets either.

"Earlier this week, both Calvin Pace and Defensive Coordinator Mike Pettine questioned Coples’ practice habits, basically stating that they want to see the effort that he put into the game equate the effort that he practices with."

http://turnonthejets.com/category/fact-or-false/

"New York Jets coaches and players are saying DE Quinton Coples must show more intensity in practice, something that was also an issue for Coples in college."

2012-08-18 08:59:48 | Source: ESPNNewYork.com - Rich Cimini

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=804...#ixzz29NuE8Ctw

[Gastineau99]

Originally Posted by long island leprechaun

Where did you get this nonsense from? Conditioning issues? Why, because he was winded in the fourth quarter of a pre-season game? Effort in practice? He was lauded as having a great pre-season practice with much promise. Complained about playing too much? He had an expression on his face when he was told to go in with the second team late in the game. Didn't say a word and immediately clarified that he had no problem playing. Rex made some comments in the press that jacked that issue up when it should have been left in the locker room. You have every right to prefer Jones, but don't go making stuff up...

I'm not making stuff up, do some research before accusing someone of "making stuff up."

[Ruby2]

Originally Posted by Gastineau99

I guess you don't read about the jets either.

"Earlier this week, both Calvin Pace and Defensive Coordinator Mike Pettine questioned Coples’ practice habits, basically stating that they want to see the effort that he put into the game equate the effort that he practices with."

http://turnonthejets.com/category/fact-or-false/

"New York Jets coaches and players are saying DE Quinton Coples must show more intensity in practice, something that was also an issue for Coples in college."

2012-08-18 08:59:48 | Source: ESPNNewYork.com - Rich Cimini

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=804...#ixzz29NuE8Ctw

Fair enough, I had no seen that previously. The first Coples quote is from the second week of the preseason though, I think he will be arite.