Jets concerned about Pats' no huddle, Pace calls it 'borderline illegal'

[Rob0729]

Originally Posted by JB1089

You can't "hurry up" off an incomplete pass. When the other side is waiting for a receiver to get back from 30 yards down the field, that's going to take some time.


The problem, as is the case with so many things, is that people panic and their physical execution and mental processing suffer for it.

You can hurry up of an incomplete pass. You can't hurry up off an incomplete deep pass. The Pats don't throw deep often though in the hurry up.

[cornjulio21]

Originally Posted by adpz

Yes, I agree. The way to try and play the no-huddle is to not worry so much about yardage as about hitting people hard and preventing TD's. It's always easier on a defense when the field gets smaller in the red-zone. Limit red-zone opps to FG's and you have a shot.

Let the youngins do the best they can in the big part of the field and then try to be more tactical in the red zone.

I can't wait to see Brady and BB whine as various Jets don't get up and draw injury stoppages during this game at key times. Obviously this won't happen under 2 minutes. But we are going to try and get in their head, and get the subs we need. DLs especially will be told to stay down, and not get up when they need a blow.

[jetrider]

Originally Posted by crasherino

If you are able to hit Brady, I agree. Unfortunately, I don't think the Jets are equipped to get to Brady absent bringing 7. So, if bringing 5 or 6 guys doesn't get to him, might as well play a coverage oriented defense and try and frustrate him that way.

But regardless, whatever they do is not going to be only one approach. They need to mix it up, try and confuse him (or at least be unpredictable), so obviously that means bringing pressure at times. I just think its not going to be one blitz after another. The Jets haven't been able to do that successfully with Brady pretty much ever.

Rattling Brady was exactly how we got the last win ('10 Divisional).

Pressure was the winning formula as Brady panicked and chucked the ball prematurely - with or without pressure, eventually.

Fear changed his QB psyche.

Inadequate pressure was mainly how we lost the last two.

Jets have no choice but to bring the heat or he'll pick us apart all day.

Brady will find somebody open every time and the longer we stay in coverage the greater the chance of drawing flags for illegal contact.

It'll happen.

Either way he'll get the yardage if we don't hit him, pressure him, mess up his head.

[crasherino]

Originally Posted by Rob0729

You can hurry up of an incomplete pass. You can't hurry up off an incomplete deep pass. The Pats don't throw deep often though in the hurry up.

Don't teams have the ability to sub out after an incomplete pass?

[adpz]

Originally Posted by jetrider

Brady will find somebody open every time and the longer we stay in coverage the greater the chance of drawing flags for illegal contact.

Yes, good point. The refs are calling this aspect of the game much tighter than ever before. The Jets are not alone in getting a lot of bad calls blown their way for this NBA-like tick-tack foul. Another reason to doubt the success of the '10 formula.

[ASG0531]

Originally Posted by cornjulio21

I can't wait to see Brady and BB whine as various Jets don't get up and draw injury stoppages during this game at key times. Obviously this won't happen under 2 minutes. But we are going to try and get in their head, and get the subs we need. DLs especially will be told to stay down, and not get up when they need a blow.

The Pats don't necessarily need to run the hyper no-huddle to win this game. They only run it when there's an advantageous matchup. They are perfectly capable of huddling up and running a successful offensive set.

If Jets players actually pull these kinds of stunts while they are doing it, not only will they lose the game but the Jets will get blasted across every media in existence.

[Rob0729]

Originally Posted by crasherino

Don't teams have the ability to sub out after an incomplete pass?

Other than the last two minutes in each half, I don't think there are any rules that require the offense to let the defense substitute players in the hurry up unless the offense substitutes or the clock is stopped on a penalty.

As far as I know, the only rule is if the Pats substitute, they must allow the defense to substitute too. Also, in the final two minutes there are additional rules that disallow fake substitutions.

I could be wrong, but I think the Pats do run the hurry up on downs with incompletions.

[cornjulio21]

Originally Posted by ASG0531

The Pats don't necessarily need to run the hyper no-huddle to win this game. They only run it when there's an advantageous matchup. They are perfectly capable of huddling up and running a successful offensive set.

If Jets players actually pull these kinds of stunts while they are doing it, not only will they lose the game but the Jets will get blasted across every media in existence.

I could care less if the media blasts them, and it's the smart play if they're dog tired and need a blow.

The smart play to win this game is not to play into their hands.

[CleatMarks]

Since it's a violation of the rules, it's cheating to gain a competitive advantage....no different than spygate.

From last year's league memo

"Those found to be violators will be subject to appropriate disciplinary action for conduct detrimental to the game," the memo states. "Discipline could include fines of coaches, players, and clubs, suspensions or forfeiture of draft choices."

[crasherino]

Originally Posted by Rob0729

Other than the last two minutes in each half, I don't think there are any rules that require the offense to let the defense substitute players in the hurry up unless the offense substitutes or the clock is stopped on a penalty.

As far as I know, the only rule is if the Pats substitute, they must allow the defense to substitute too. Also, in the final two minutes there are additional rules that disallow fake substitutions.

I could be wrong, but I think the Pats do run the hurry up on downs with incompletions.

I don't think there is any rule specifically allowing substitutions after incompletions, but with the clock stopped, the officials typically don't hustle to spot the ball as they do when the clock is running.

You've obviously watched the Pats more than me, but it just seems that the logistics don't seem to lend themselves towards hurrying up. Everyone needs to get back to the LOS and the ball needs to be brought back. It seems likely that a defense can get a sub package in before the ball is spotted and snapped.

I'll be interested to see how that works though.

[jetrider]

Originally Posted by adpz

Yes, good point. The refs are calling this aspect of the game much tighter than ever before. The Jets are not alone in getting a lot of bad calls blown their way for this NBA-like tick-tack foul. Another reason to doubt the success of the '10 formula.

We need the '10 formula.

We have scant chance of winning with the '11 Brady-all-day-in-the-pocket formula.

[adpz]

Originally Posted by jetrider

We need the '10 formula.

We have scant chance of winning with the '11 Brady-all-day-in-the-pocket formula.

I don't think that o-line is what's it's been in the past few years.

[ASG0531]

Originally Posted by adpz

I don't think that o-line is what's it's been in the past few years.

Jets fans really need to be asking why Rex can't draw up the "'10 formula" against every team? Why does he need to save his best for the Pats? They play 14 other games every year.

[Snell41]

This hurry up offense also presents a challenge for Brady. With the intent of getting the snap off quickly he does not have the time to really read and see the D pre snap. Personally I think the trick to cracking it is to be completely unconventional with our defensive assignments. I'm thinking more of a Dick LeBeau style with zone dog blitzes and the likes. If Brady sees conventional defenses he's going to think quickly and make the proper quick read. If he has to stop and think about what he's seeing on D while dropping back then it gives us time to get to him. Now I realize this is Brady so I don't give us much of a chance, just saying what I'd do.....along with alot of fake injuries

[CleatMarks]

Originally Posted by Snell41

This hurry up offense also presents a challenge for Brady. With the intent of getting the snap off quickly he does not have the time to really read and see the D pre snap. Personally I think the trick to cracking it is to be completely unconventional with our defensive assignments. I'm thinking more of a Dick LeBeau style with zone dog blitzes and the likes. If Brady sees conventional defenses he's going to think quickly and make the proper quick read. If he has to stop and think about what he's seeing on D while dropping back then it gives us time to get to him. Now I realize this is Brady so I don't give us much of a chance, just saying what I'd do.....along with alot of fake injuries

Zone blitz? You realize that Brady eats up the zone blitz right?

[Snell41]

Originally Posted by CleatMarks

Zone blitz? You realize that Brady eats up the zone blitz right?

Brady eats up everything except pressure right in his face, which now he just gets rid of the ball too quickly to even do that. You need to confuse him. He knows where to throw the ball at all times based on what he sees. He's the quintessential "sees player A on defense do this, go to that" type of QB. What we need to do is feign the look of "this" while covering the "that" with something he would not expect to see. You can't defend him with a single level defense. If the initial look of our D post snap gives Brady the logical response opening he's going to carve us up.

[Dunnie]

You could take the madden approach ... if NE is hurrying up ... 'don't hurry' ... save your breath ... let them march down the field until they are within the 40 then hold them to a FG. Saves the stress on the D until needed for a FG defense, and gets our offense on the field quicker.

Sounds insane ... but it works in Madden .. hahaha.

[ASG0531]

Originally Posted by Snell41

This hurry up offense also presents a challenge for Brady. With the intent of getting the snap off quickly he does not have the time to really read and see the D pre snap. Personally I think the trick to cracking it is to be completely unconventional with our defensive assignments. I'm thinking more of a Dick LeBeau style with zone dog blitzes and the likes. If Brady sees conventional defenses he's going to think quickly and make the proper quick read. If he has to stop and think about what he's seeing on D while dropping back then it gives us time to get to him. Now I realize this is Brady so I don't give us much of a chance, just saying what I'd do.....along with alot of fake injuries

Run the "amoeba" defense the Falcons ran that completely confused Peyton.

[CleatMarks]

Bottom line is the Pats aren't unbeatable.

The three times it's been done, it's been the passing game that's beaten them.

If the Jets can get that kind of a game plan and slow Brady down enough, the Jets will win. If the Jets aren't successful in either case, I see the Pats winning this game.

[stanner]

this is easy: every time Maybin is on the field, he needs to hit Brady. Either the clock stops for the injury or the penalty. bingo bango no hurry up, and we get our subs.