Jets concerned about Pats' no huddle, Pace calls it 'borderline illegal' - Page 10 - Jets Insider.com Forums

Pats1960 · 10-21-2012, 02:46 AM

Apparently Calvin doesn't like the Pace of the Pats offense.

DWC · 10-21-2012, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pats1960

Apparently Calvin doesn't like the Pace of the Pats offense.

And rightfully so. NE flat out cheated during those SB spygate years (loss of a first rounder) but they've also taken advantage of the refs (who've allowed them do to so) over the years.

"The rulebook makes it clear that the officials have the responsibility to ensure that the defense has a fair chance to adjust to lineup changes. Per Mehta, Rule 5, Section 2, Article 10 states that “if a substitution is made by the offense, the offense shall not be permitted to snap the ball until the defense has been permitted to respond with its substitutions. . . . The offense is prohibited from rushing quickly to the line of scrimmage and snapping the ball in an obvious attempt to cause a defensive foul (i.e. — too many men on the field). . . . The umpire will stand over the ball until the Referee deems that the defense has had a reasonable time to complete its substitutions.”

This is what defensive coordinator Pettine had to say.

“When they change, that should trigger the ability for us to change,” Pettine said. “I’m all for the no-huddle and one grouping. Whoever you put out there, you better be prepared to go through a whole series and be out there for a while. And that’s fine. When they change, we need to be given the right to change . . . and we’re going to make sure that right is given to us.”

Credit to our players/coaching staff for calling the Patriots out. It's about damn time.

C Mart · 10-21-2012, 09:23 AM

Although linebacker David Harris admits that the Patriots run 'a hell of a scheme,' the Jets have found several examples of officials not enforcing the substitution rule on their no-huddle drives

The switch was subtle and deft like a magician’s sleight of hand.

On 2nd and 10 from their own 20-yard line two weeks ago, the Patriots, at home against Denver, went into warp speed with a no-huddle attack that has induced migraines for defensive coordinators through the first six weeks of the season.

Running back Stevan Ridley used a pair of blocks by tight ends Rob Gronkowski and Daniel Fells on a 19-yard first-down pickup down the left sideline in the third quarter of 31-21 win over the Broncos in Week 5. Then, Bill Belichick fooled the officials.

After Ridley was pushed out of bounds and the Patriots rushed to the line of scrimmage to continue their 16-play, 80-yard touchdown march, they made a pair of substitutions. Ridley and Fells were swapped out for running back Brandon Bolden and wide receiver Deion Branch. A 1-running back, 2-tight end, 2-wide receiver personnel grouping suddenly morphed into a 1-running back, 3-wide receiver, 1-tight end grouping.

The Broncos scrambled to adjust, but were penalized for too many men on the field after sacking Tom Brady for an 8-yard loss on the next play.

Denver had 14 men on the field, including three frantically trying to run off before the snap.

“Denver never got a chance to substitute,” defensive coordinator Mike Pettine told the Daily News in the run-up to the Jets’ showdown against the Patriots on Sunday. “It’s going to be a major point of contention before (our) game with the officials to make sure that they know the rule is when they substitute we’re permitted to substitute.”

“If the officials permit (the Patriots) to do that, then the game is going to become chaos,” Pettine added. “That’s the problem. Because we’re going to be running guys on. We need to make sure that that is enforced for this game, because we found examples on tape where it has not been. Then it’s impossible. Now you can’t defend it.”

On that sequence two weeks ago, the Patriots had a 1st and 5 thanks to the 5-yard penalty that wiped out the sack that would have made it 2nd and 18.

The Patriots’ strategic substitutions within the framework of their no-huddle scheme are legal. They’re well within their right to make changes, but defenses need to be given the right to counter. It’s a given that up-tempo offenses stress a defense’s ability to get set before the snap, but the officials seemingly haven’t caught on to Belichick and offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels’ substitution ploy yet.

Rule 5, Section 2, Article 10 of the NFL rulebook states, in part, “if a substitution is made by the offense, the offense shall not be permitted to snap the ball until the defense has been permitted to respond with its substitutions. . . . The offense is prohibited from rushing quickly to the line of scrimmage and snapping the ball in an obvious attempt to cause a defensive foul (i.e. — too many men on the field). . . . The umpire will stand over the ball until the Referee deems that the defense has had a reasonable time to complete its substitutions.”

Although linebacker David Harris admits that the Patriots run “a hell of a scheme,” the Jets have found several examples of officials not enforcing the substitution rule on their no-huddle drives.

“When they change, that should trigger the ability for us to change,”

Pettine said. “I’m all for the no-huddle and one grouping. Whoever you put out there, you better be prepared to go through a whole series and be out there for a while. And that’s fine. When they change, we need to be given the right to change . . . and we’re going to make sure that right is given to us.”

The Patriots’ up-tempo offense that has run a league-high 473 plays is challenging enough to defend without officials’ oversights. “These guys do it all,” said Jets outside linebacker Bryan Thomas.

The Jets will have to slow down Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez and Wes Welker to have any chance to win.

Although Jets safety LaRon Landry, who will get his fair share of opportunities to slow down Gronkowski, maintains that, “You can’t go into a game and say, ‘Oh sh--, he’s too big or he’s going to beat me on this play or that play,” it’ll be a daunting task against arguably the best tight end in the league.”

Welker’s ability to change direction quickly and Hernandez’s hybrid TE/WR skill set that allows him to beat defenders on vertical routes make it even more complicated to slow down New England’s multi-dimensional attack.

Landry hopes for better luck than the only time he faced Brady in his career while with the Redskins. “They kicked our ass, man,” Landry said. “Brady came to the line and made it look quite easy.”

“We certainly don’t have all the answers to it,” Rex Ryan said. “If (Brady) knows the coverage you’re in, good luck with that one. You have to give him different looks, different pressures, different coverages. You have to be multiple or this guy will kill you.”

Brady is dangerous enough without getting help from officials who don’t enforce the substitution rules.

“That’s part of the officials being able to manage the game,” Pettine said. “It’s going to be critical for us to make sure that we have the ability to do that.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...1188308?pgno=1

GuidoYaztremski · 10-21-2012, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWC

And rightfully so. NE flat out cheated during those SB spygate years (loss of a first rounder) but they've also taken advantage of the refs (who've allowed them do to so) over the years.

"The rulebook makes it clear that the officials have the responsibility to ensure that the defense has a fair chance to adjust to lineup changes. Per Mehta, Rule 5, Section 2, Article 10 states that “if a substitution is made by the offense, the offense shall not be permitted to snap the ball until the defense has been permitted to respond with its substitutions. . . . The offense is prohibited from rushing quickly to the line of scrimmage and snapping the ball in an obvious attempt to cause a defensive foul (i.e. — too many men on the field). . . . The umpire will stand over the ball until the Referee deems that the defense has had a reasonable time to complete its substitutions.”

This is what defensive coordinator Pettine had to say.

“When they change, that should trigger the ability for us to change,” Pettine said. “I’m all for the no-huddle and one grouping. Whoever you put out there, you better be prepared to go through a whole series and be out there for a while. And that’s fine. When they change, we need to be given the right to change . . . and we’re going to make sure that right is given to us.”

Credit to our players/coaching staff for calling the Patriots out. It's about damn time.

Hey Philly Statz! Welcome back on game day. You get kicked out of jets Addicts too?

southparkcpa · 10-21-2012, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWC

And rightfully so. NE flat out cheated during those SB spygate years (loss of a first rounder) but they've also taken advantage of the refs (who've allowed them do to so) over the years.

"The rulebook makes it clear that the officials have the responsibility to ensure that the defense has a fair chance to adjust to lineup changes. Per Mehta, Rule 5, Section 2, Article 10 states that “if a substitution is made by the offense, the offense shall not be permitted to snap the ball until the defense has been permitted to respond with its substitutions. . . . The offense is prohibited from rushing quickly to the line of scrimmage and snapping the ball in an obvious attempt to cause a defensive foul (i.e. — too many men on the field). . . . The umpire will stand over the ball until the Referee deems that the defense has had a reasonable time to complete its substitutions.”

This is what defensive coordinator Pettine had to say.

“When they change, that should trigger the ability for us to change,” Pettine said. “I’m all for the no-huddle and one grouping. Whoever you put out there, you better be prepared to go through a whole series and be out there for a while. And that’s fine. When they change, we need to be given the right to change . . . and we’re going to make sure that right is given to us.”

Credit to our players/coaching staff for calling the Patriots out. It's about damn time.

and here is how the PAID off PATS fan refs will administer this rule......

FF2® · 10-21-2012, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoYaztremski

Hey Philly Statz! Welcome back on game day. You get kicked out of jets Addicts too?

LOLz.

Jordy · 10-21-2012, 11:07 AM

DWC
Banned

It's another sad day in Mudville.

SlickBri481 · 10-21-2012, 11:24 AM

We complained to the NFL? LOL good god, the Pats will run up 50 points today for revenge

#1Patriot · 10-21-2012, 12:50 PM

It's borderline illegal because sometimes the guys aren't always set when they snap the ball," Pace said Wednesday. "But it's smart. Why not hurry a team up? I wish we would do it. For a defense, it just puts pressure on you."

10-21-2012, 09:23 AM	#183
C Mart Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,278	Mehta: Done with Patriots games: Rex Ryan and NY Jets can't wait to sink BB Although linebacker David Harris admits that the Patriots run 'a hell of a scheme,' the Jets have found several examples of officials not enforcing the substitution rule on their no-huddle drives The switch was subtle and deft like a magician’s sleight of hand. On 2nd and 10 from their own 20-yard line two weeks ago, the Patriots, at home against Denver, went into warp speed with a no-huddle attack that has induced migraines for defensive coordinators through the first six weeks of the season. Running back Stevan Ridley used a pair of blocks by tight ends Rob Gronkowski and Daniel Fells on a 19-yard first-down pickup down the left sideline in the third quarter of 31-21 win over the Broncos in Week 5. Then, Bill Belichick fooled the officials. After Ridley was pushed out of bounds and the Patriots rushed to the line of scrimmage to continue their 16-play, 80-yard touchdown march, they made a pair of substitutions. Ridley and Fells were swapped out for running back Brandon Bolden and wide receiver Deion Branch. A 1-running back, 2-tight end, 2-wide receiver personnel grouping suddenly morphed into a 1-running back, 3-wide receiver, 1-tight end grouping. The Broncos scrambled to adjust, but were penalized for too many men on the field after sacking Tom Brady for an 8-yard loss on the next play. Denver had 14 men on the field, including three frantically trying to run off before the snap. “Denver never got a chance to substitute,” defensive coordinator Mike Pettine told the Daily News in the run-up to the Jets’ showdown against the Patriots on Sunday. “It’s going to be a major point of contention before (our) game with the officials to make sure that they know the rule is when they substitute we’re permitted to substitute.” “If the officials permit (the Patriots) to do that, then the game is going to become chaos,” Pettine added. “That’s the problem. Because we’re going to be running guys on. We need to make sure that that is enforced for this game, because we found examples on tape where it has not been. Then it’s impossible. Now you can’t defend it.” On that sequence two weeks ago, the Patriots had a 1st and 5 thanks to the 5-yard penalty that wiped out the sack that would have made it 2nd and 18. The Patriots’ strategic substitutions within the framework of their no-huddle scheme are legal. They’re well within their right to make changes, but defenses need to be given the right to counter. It’s a given that up-tempo offenses stress a defense’s ability to get set before the snap, but the officials seemingly haven’t caught on to Belichick and offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels’ substitution ploy yet. Rule 5, Section 2, Article 10 of the NFL rulebook states, in part, “if a substitution is made by the offense, the offense shall not be permitted to snap the ball until the defense has been permitted to respond with its substitutions. . . . The offense is prohibited from rushing quickly to the line of scrimmage and snapping the ball in an obvious attempt to cause a defensive foul (i.e. — too many men on the field). . . . The umpire will stand over the ball until the Referee deems that the defense has had a reasonable time to complete its substitutions.” Although linebacker David Harris admits that the Patriots run “a hell of a scheme,” the Jets have found several examples of officials not enforcing the substitution rule on their no-huddle drives. “When they change, that should trigger the ability for us to change,” Pettine said. “I’m all for the no-huddle and one grouping. Whoever you put out there, you better be prepared to go through a whole series and be out there for a while. And that’s fine. When they change, we need to be given the right to change . . . and we’re going to make sure that right is given to us.” The Patriots’ up-tempo offense that has run a league-high 473 plays is challenging enough to defend without officials’ oversights. “These guys do it all,” said Jets outside linebacker Bryan Thomas. The Jets will have to slow down Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez and Wes Welker to have any chance to win. Although Jets safety LaRon Landry, who will get his fair share of opportunities to slow down Gronkowski, maintains that, “You can’t go into a game and say, ‘Oh sh--, he’s too big or he’s going to beat me on this play or that play,” it’ll be a daunting task against arguably the best tight end in the league.” Welker’s ability to change direction quickly and Hernandez’s hybrid TE/WR skill set that allows him to beat defenders on vertical routes make it even more complicated to slow down New England’s multi-dimensional attack. Landry hopes for better luck than the only time he faced Brady in his career while with the Redskins. “They kicked our ass, man,” Landry said. “Brady came to the line and made it look quite easy.” “We certainly don’t have all the answers to it,” Rex Ryan said. “If (Brady) knows the coverage you’re in, good luck with that one. You have to give him different looks, different pressures, different coverages. You have to be multiple or this guy will kill you.” Brady is dangerous enough without getting help from officials who don’t enforce the substitution rules. “That’s part of the officials being able to manage the game,” Pettine said. “It’s going to be critical for us to make sure that we have the ability to do that.” http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...1188308?pgno=1

10-21-2012, 02:46 AM	#181
Pats1960 Just a Pats fan Undrafted Free Agent Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 230	Apparently Calvin doesn't like the Pace of the Pats offense.

10-21-2012, 11:07 AM	#187
Jordy Keeping it real... Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Tårnby, Denmark Posts: 23,145	DWC Banned It's another sad day in Mudville.

10-21-2012, 11:24 AM	#188
SlickBri481 Heal up Darrelle... All Pro Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 6,350	We complained to the NFL? LOL good god, the Pats will run up 50 points today for revenge

10-21-2012, 12:50 PM	#189
#1Patriot not feeling the love here Banned Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 916	It's borderline illegal because sometimes the guys aren't always set when they snap the ball," Pace said Wednesday. "But it's smart. Why not hurry a team up? I wish we would do it. For a defense, it just puts pressure on you."