Voter Fraud Doesn't Exist

[Warfish]

Criminal probe opened over video showing Va. rep's son discussing vote scheme

Local police in Arlington, Va., have opened a criminal investigation after a secretly recorded video showed the son of a Democratic congressman apparently advising someone who claimed to be looking for ways to commit voter fraud.

In a brief statement, the Arlington County police department and attorney's office said they were "aware" of the video "allegedly depicting" Patrick Moran, son of Virginia Rep. Jim Moran, "assisting another to vote illegally."

"The Arlington County Police Department has initiated a criminal investigation of this matter," the statement said.

Patrick Moran has resigned from his father's campaign in the wake of the video. Moran was secretly recorded by controversial conservative activist James O'Keefe's group, Project Veritas.

After Moran was approached, and at first resisted the questions, he did eventually give tips on how to forge ID's -- like a utility bill -- to illegally cast ballots for 100 people he was told were not going to show up to vote.

Keep up with the candidates in the Virginia state races on FoxNews.com

The audio on the tape is unclear at times, but Moran appears to say: "With the new voter ID laws ... he'll need bills. He'll need something with a name and their address on it.

"There'll be a lot of voter protection, so if they just have, you know, just the utility bill or a bank statement -- bank statement would obviously be tough -- but they can fake a utility bill with ease."

Patrick Moran told The Associated Press that he was not taking the person seriously, and thought he was unstable. He was merely humoring him, Moran claimed, but said in hindsight he should have walked away. "At no point have I, or will I, ever endorse any sort of illegal or unethical behavior," he told the AP.

But O'Keefe blasted Moran, and took issue with his claims that he was just playing along. "Moran brainstorms with our reporter on the most effective manner in which to commit voter fraud for the goal of circumventing voter ID laws; he suggests that our reporter should fabricate utility bills and impersonate poll workers over the phone, calling the unsuspecting voters before compromising their vote to ensure they hadn't voted already," O'Keefe wrote in an email to Fox News, calling the tape "manifestly damning."

The flap, though, has caused problems for Rep. Jim Moran's campaign. Patrick Moran resigned as field director Wednesday. Then his opponent, Republican Patrick Murray, put out a statement calling for an investigation by "local, state and federal election officials," adding that "it is not clear whether or not there was any wrongdoing."

"The integrity of our nation is at stake, and it appears that my opponent's campaign seems prepared to undermine free and fair elections right here in Virginia," he said.

The Arlington County Democrats, in Virginia, also said that they have asked Pat Moran "not to return to our offices."

The controversy comes as Moran and two other Virginia Democratic congressmen demand a federal investigation into a case where a 23-year-old worker for a Republican contractor was charged with 13 counts of destroying voter registration forms -- after allegedly dumping them in a mall Dumpster.

The local sheriff said it appears what happened was not widespread, but limited.

Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, a Republican, is investigating that case and said he will protect the election's integrity.

"I wouldn't say there's any particular pattern that we've observed around the commonwealth, this is a continual problem. Human nature is what it is and people are going to continue to break the law and cheat and that tends to not know any sorts of boundaries, left, right, up, down. We're going to go after it wherever it exists," he told Fox News. "The attorney general is going to do everything that he can to keep their vote secure and to make sure it's not diluted by illegal voting and also to protect their own ability to get in there and cast their own vote by protecting their registration, which is what's at stake in the case that we've been called into."

I'll say again, I think the entire voting process needs to be looked at and revised.

1. Automatic Citizen Registration, No paperwork and no ID's required. If you are a citizen, the Feds. automaticly register you to vote.

2. 100% ID Checks at the time of voting.

If that is truly too much of a burden, then we, as a society, should just go ahead and give up now.

In my experiences, 5-10% of the population will steal/cheat any given system, regardless of whats at stake or the cost/benefit analysis.

To assume that voting is somehow immune form this basic human nature is laughable and naive. And 5-10% is more than enough to sway a close election.

[DeanPatsFan]

What's that I hear from our lefty contingent?

(((((((crickets)))))))))

[piney]

Originally Posted by Warfish

I'll say again, I think the entire voting process needs to be looked at and revised.

1. Automatic Citizen Registration, No paperwork and no ID's required. If you are a citizen, the Feds. automaticly register you to vote.

2. 100% ID Checks at the time of voting.

If that is truly too much of a burden, then we, as a society, should just go ahead and give up now.

In my experiences, 5-10% of the population will steal/cheat any given system, regardless of whats at stake or the cost/benefit analysis.

To assume that voting is somehow immune form this basic human nature is laughable and naive. And 5-10% is more than enough to sway a close election.

The thread title is a little misleading, no one is saying voter fraud doesn't exist, they are saying it is a very small number, and not the epidemic that the Republicans like to make it out to be.


Similarly, there are reports of Voter suppression coming from some swing states directed at mostly Dem voters. Business owners sending emails to employees attempting to influence their vote. I would think this probably has the same effect, a very small percent of actual voters probably get duped or coerced.

I wonder if we think these type of actions should be illegal as well?

I can agree with voter ID if it isn't just pushed through with no concern for cost or how to make sure everyone gets an ID. I don't want a system that supresses votes, but I don't mind a full revision of all aspects of voting.

I did like the idea I read here also that vollunteering at the polls should be like jury duty, everyone has to do it at some point.

[JetPotato]

Originally Posted by piney

The thread title is a little misleading, no one is saying voter fraud doesn't exist, they are saying it is a very small number, and not the epidemic that the Republicans like to make it out to be.


Similarly, there are reports of Voter suppression coming from some swing states directed at mostly Dem voters. Business owners sending emails to employees attempting to influence their vote. I would think this probably has the same effect, a very small percent of actual voters probably get duped or coerced.

I wonder if we think these type of actions should be illegal as well?

I can agree with voter ID if it isn't just pushed through with no concern for cost or how to make sure everyone gets an ID. I don't want a system that supresses votes, but I don't mind a full revision of all aspects of voting.

I did like the idea I read here also that vollunteering at the polls should be like jury duty, everyone has to do it at some point.

Oh how I wish more people worked at the polls. Especially those who foolishly believe voter fraud isn't a serious problem.

I'd love for them to witness blatant and rampant fraud first hand, as I have in my time as a poll worker.

[piney]

Originally Posted by JetPotato

Oh how I wish more people worked at the polls. Especially those who foolishly believe voter fraud isn't a serious problem.

I'd love for them to witness blatant and rampant fraud first hand, as I have in my time as a poll worker.

and let me guess...it seems to be only Dem voters....right?*





*sarcasm

[DDNYjets]

And make getting an ID free so there is no excuse.

[DDNYjets]

Originally Posted by piney

and let me guess...it seems to be only Dem voters....right?*





*sarcasm

Ok. Fine. If it is a common problem then the Dems should be pushing for IDs too.

But they do it more, hence the resistance to change.

[piney]

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

Ok. Fine. If it is a common problem then the Dems should be pushing for IDs too.

But they do it more, hence the resistance to change.

you have nothing to back up that statement. it is pure conjecture.

[PlumberKhan]

ID's!

They stop everything.

Except college freshmans buying beer.


Sent from my Double-Wide using Semaphore...

[piney]

Originally Posted by PlumberKhan

ID's!

They stop everything.

Except college freshmans buying beer.


Sent from my Double-Wide using Semaphore...

also, wasn't this guy allegedly (it is James O'Keefe) talking about getting a fake IDs?

[DDNYjets]

Originally Posted by piney

you have nothing to back up that statement. it is pure conjecture.

Just connecting the dots.

Libs claim it is not a big deal. Then when there is evidence of fraud libs say it happens on both sides. OK. So then lets eliminate it. Obvious solution would be voter ID. Libs oppose voter ID.

Can't have it both ways. It is a problem and only one side is looking to fix it. While the other side plays the race card.

Conservatives should call them out on it and propose something to make IDs free. Everyone should have an ID, it is beneficial. There is nothing negative about having an ID. Make it free and make it required to vote.

[Apache 51]

My wife used to get 2 Ballots one in her maiden name, one married.

[piney]

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

Just connecting the dots.

Libs claim it is not a big deal. Then when there is evidence of fraud libs say it happens on both sides. OK. So then lets eliminate it. Obvious solution would be voter ID. Libs oppose voter ID.

Can't have it both ways. It is a problem and only one side is looking to fix it. While the other side plays the race card.

Conservatives should call them out on it and propose something to make IDs free. Everyone should have an ID, it is beneficial. There is nothing negative about having an ID. Make it free and make it required to vote.

1. How would voter ID protect from fraud like this, which seems to be a way to obtain an ID illegally?
2. That's horrible logic.
3. Using that I can then say that mostly conservatives practice voter suppression since most of the people who complain about it are libs and conservatives seem to ignore it.

[OCCH]

Originally Posted by piney

1. Using that I can then say that mostly conservatives practice voter suppression since most of the people who complain about it are libs and conservatives seem to ignore it.

Except for when it's two armed black panthers standing outside a voting station in Philly . . .

[piney]

Originally Posted by OCCH

Except for when it's two armed black panthers standing outside a voting station in Philly . . .

ahh, yeah, I guess that is the only time the right would care about voter intimidation. *







sarcasm

[OCCH]

Originally Posted by piney

ahh, yeah, I guess that is the only time the right would care about voter intimidation. *







sarcasm

Actually, I meant to put a in the first place . . .

[piney]

Originally Posted by OCCH

Actually, I meant to put a in the first place . . .

I have decided I have to label it when I am being facetious. Too many claws come out.

[JetPotato]

Originally Posted by piney

and let me guess...it seems to be only Dem voters....right?*





*sarcasm

Don't be stupid. I had no way of knowing how the fraudulent voters cast their ballots.

But as I have stated multiple times here before, I have seen deceased registered voters arrive and enter the booth. Multiple times. I have been threatened with legal action for even daring to even say something about it. I have witnessed other workers being physically threatened. I have witnessed police and other officials who can do nothing about it. I will tell you one thing however, the other workers there who scold those of us bothered by obvious fraud and who have told me to "keep my mouth shut or else" do represent one particular political party.

Mock away, but until you've done it, until you've walked in my shoes, perhaps you are the one who should be keeping the mouth shut. You know nothing, other than what you want to believe.

[isired]

Well, that's one. How much are we looking to spend against avoiding voter fraud with fake ID's? I say we just let the gov't put an RFID chip in all of us to positively ID us once and for all, with no worry about losing it and little worry about forgery or swapping them, as it would require surgery. Free for all citizens, of course.

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by isired

Well, that's one. How much are we looking to spend against avoiding voter fraud with fake ID's? I say we just let the gov't put an RFID chip in all of us to positively ID us once and for all, with no worry about losing it and little worry about forgery or swapping them, as it would require surgery. Free for all citizens, of course.

So in your opinion, showing a photo ID is equivalent to being RFID tagged by the Federal Government?

It amazes me, tbh, how reasonable, intelligent people can suddenly become raving lunatics when it suits them politically.

"ID Please", once a routine and basic validation of identity or qualification, now akin to Nazi's asking you if you want o wear a red cap or a yellow cap to your forthcoming "shower".

It makes debate, real debate, impossible frankly. When even the idea of a basic ID check, literally THE most basic form of validation of identity available, is viewed as a racist evil nazi conspiracy to stop black people from voting....

You say "thats one".

I say we have no idea how many it is, because we not even doing basic checking.

Lets meet in the middle, and do a whole election with 100% ID Checks. If attempted voter fraud is small enough, under 1%, maybe I could see your side.

If we never check, we'll never know. And I am amazed anyone could be ok with not knowing such an important thing as this.