is Chandler Jones the one who got away ? ? ?

[TheMo]

Coples' pass rush productivity (a PFF signature stat that weights sacks, hurries, and hits against pass rush snaps) is 7.2. That is third among starting 3-4 DEs in the NFL. Above Dockett, Campbell, and Ngata. Chandler Jones is 11th in the league among 4-3 DEs with a PRP of 9.6.

So is Jones getting more pressure on the QB? Yes. Is it probably due to the position and role that he plays? Also yes.

This is the first time in a while I can say every single one the pats trolls is straight up trolling. Both players have been good. Coples hasn't been bad, in fact he is in a higher percentile for pass rushing among his counterparts.

[PatsFanTX]

Originally Posted by TheMo

Coples' pass rush productivity (a PFF signature stat that weights sacks, hurries, and hits against pass rush snaps) is 7.2. That is third among starting 3-4 DEs in the NFL. Above Dockett, Campbell, and Ngata. Chandler Jones is 11th in the league among 4-3 DEs with a PRP of 9.6.

So is Jones getting more pressure on the QB? Yes. Is it probably due to the position and role that he plays? Also yes.

This is the first time in a while I can say every single one the pats trolls is straight up trolling. Both players have been good. Coples hasn't been bad, in fact he is in a higher percentile for pass rushing among his counterparts.

Straight up trolling?

No one outside New York even knows who Coples is.

There is a reason why Jones is the prohibitive favorite to win DROY. Coples isn't even mentioned in this discussion.

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by PatsFanTX

Straight up trolling?

No one outside New York even knows who Coples is.

There is a reason why Jones is the prohibitive favorite to win DROY. Coples isn't even mentioned in this discussion.

So jones is having a better year then luke keuchly? Just cause last I checked he was 3rd in the league in tackles.

So who is declaring him the prohibitive favorite....is it typical Bill Belichick fellator, peter king? Or some writer on espn????

The reason jones is getting more media coverage is that New England gets more press then other teams. Not to mention, we are halfway through the season...pretty long way to go.

Why dont you, patman and the rest of the pats fans debate chandler jones ON YOUR OWN BOARD.

[PatsFanTX]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

So jones is having a better year then luke keuchly? Just cause last I checked he was 3rd in the league in tackles.

So who is declaring him the prohibitive favorite....is it typical Bill Belichick fellator, peter king? Or some writer on espn????

The reason jones is getting more media coverage is that New England gets more press then other teams. Not to mention, we are halfway through the season...pretty long way to go.

Why dont you, patman and the rest of the pats fans debate chandler jones ON YOUR OWN BOARD.

I guess you didn't bother to read the thread title.

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by PatsFanTX

I guess you didn't bother to read the thread title.

No I read it just fine.

I also read the last 2 pages of posts where you, patman, etc are about 30% going back and forth between the 2 of you.

Its ridiculous.

Jones is doing well, to say coples isnt is ridiculous.

[Beerfish]

No worries if he develops along the same lines as McCourty, you know the guy that was 'as good as Revis'.

[PatsFanTX]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

No I read it just fine.

I also read the last 2 pages of posts where you, patman, etc are about 30% going back and forth between the 2 of you.

Its ridiculous.

Jones is doing well, to say coples isnt is ridiculous.

I don't think any Pats fan said Coples is not doing well.

Jones plays on the outside, Coples plays on the inside. That's a big difference right there.

Jones' athletic ability (speed, wingspan, quickness) has allowed him to make some big plays so far this season. That is why he is getting the recognition.

Just for the record, I feel Coples has played very well over the first half of the season.

[AFCEastFan]

Originally Posted by Beerfish

No worries if he develops along the same lines as McCourty, you know the guy that was 'as good as Revis'.

I hope nobody here ever said he was as good as Revis. He was a first or second team all-pro as a rookie, depending on the source, and deservedly so. He was one of the worst DB's in the league last year.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle and his play this year suggests that he is a generally solid DB, although one that can be badly burned in certain matchups, especially when that matchup is Torrey Smith. Certainly nowhere in Revis's league, even at McCourty's best.

[GuidoYaztremski]

Originally Posted by Beerfish

No worries if he develops along the same lines as McCourty, you know the guy that was 'as good as Revis'.

Actually, this season he's playing quite a bit better than Revis,.....check the stats.

[FijiJet]

Originally Posted by TheMo

Coples' pass rush productivity (a PFF signature stat that weights sacks, hurries, and hits against pass rush snaps) is 7.2. That is third among starting 3-4 DEs in the NFL. Above Dockett, Campbell, and Ngata. Chandler Jones is 11th in the league among 4-3 DEs with a PRP of 9.6.

So is Jones getting more pressure on the QB? Yes. Is it probably due to the position and role that he plays? Also yes.

This is the first time in a while I can say every single one the pats trolls is straight up trolling. Both players have been good. Coples hasn't been bad, in fact he is in a higher percentile for pass rushing among his counterparts.

Thanks for putting the bums in their place

[Rich Caster]

Originally Posted by mrcoops

No. If the Jets had wanted him over Coples, they would have picked him.

Thats the problem

[Rob0729]

Originally Posted by TheMo

Coples' pass rush productivity (a PFF signature stat that weights sacks, hurries, and hits against pass rush snaps) is 7.2. That is third among starting 3-4 DEs in the NFL. Above Dockett, Campbell, and Ngata. Chandler Jones is 11th in the league among 4-3 DEs with a PRP of 9.6.

So is Jones getting more pressure on the QB? Yes. Is it probably due to the position and role that he plays? Also yes.

This is the first time in a while I can say every single one the pats trolls is straight up trolling. Both players have been good. Coples hasn't been bad, in fact he is in a higher percentile for pass rushing among his counterparts.

Although it is way too early to declare anything about any rookie, your stats are a bit misleading. Jones has played 91.9% of the Pats' defensive snaps (according to ESPN Boston) and Coples has played 53.2% of the Jets' defensive snaps (according to NY Jets Cap). That is probably why Coples' numbers are better than full time starters like Dockett, Campbell, and Ngata. Coples has played more on obvious passing downs (especially earlier in the year) which will help his stats.

BTW, I think PFF is crap, but that is another discussion for another day.

I am ecstatic on how Jones has been playing. He was supposed to be a project and a situational pass rusher coming in and he has already turned into an every down DE and a player teams have to be aware of. He is the pass rusher people said he would be. He still needs to work on being more versatile in his rushes (although his pass rush package is not limited to one move as his detractors state). Where he has surprised is his ability to set the edge against the run.

Coples has shown flashes of being a dominant player, but he appears to be the less polished player thus far. I said in the preseason that he needs to work on his QB awareness. He is very good at busting through the line, but he needs to work on his awareness of where the QB is and making the proper angles. He fixes that problem and he could be a dominant pass rusher in this league. He sturggled against the run early, but is getting better at that.

[patman]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

So jones is having a better year then luke keuchly? Just cause last I checked he was 3rd in the league in tackles.

So who is declaring him the prohibitive favorite....is it typical Bill Belichick fellator, peter king? Or some writer on espn????

The reason jones is getting more media coverage is that New England gets more press then other teams. Not to mention, we are halfway through the season...pretty long way to go.

Why dont you, patman and the rest of the pats fans debate chandler jones ON YOUR OWN BOARD.

Eagle, First my posts werein response to a back and forth between jetster and I, not any other patriot fan

I never said anything in this post to disparage Coples in any way, but attacked fans that try to equate football stats with actual performance.
I pointed out that is is easier for a Edge DE like Jones to be noticed and that
Coples is playing multiple positions and not just the edge.

If you don't read my posts, fine i understand that you don't like to hear an opposing fans take. But please don't mis-state what I said in my posts to other posters who made not have read every post in the thread..

[teddyld]

J.J. Watt, leading candidate for Defensive POY in his second year, had only 5.5 sacks as a rookie playing the same position as Coples. It takes a while to learn to play that position. We as Jets fans are overly sensitive about d line prospects after Robertson and Gholsten, but in limited action Coples has already shown to be a better player than them. Dude is gonna be a load to deal with for years to come. When u see him in games he is most often double teamed so opposing teams already know. As he understands what teams are trying to do to him, his counter moves will develop. Wilkerson, Ellis and Coples is gonna be a beast of a dline. We should worry about our linebackers and not a very good prospect like Coples.

[TheMo]

Originally Posted by PatsFanTX

Straight up trolling?

No one outside New York even knows who Coples is.

There is a reason why Jones is the prohibitive favorite to win DROY. Coples isn't even mentioned in this discussion.

Right... ignore stats follow the media. I like how you didn't address the facts either, because you can't spin that. You never bring anything useful to a discussion. Why you were unbanned will remain a mystery to me? Worst troll on here, get me patman. At least I can have a discussion with him.

[TheMo]

Originally Posted by patman

Eagle, First my posts werein response to a back and forth between jetster and I, not any other patriot fan

I never said anything in this post to disparage Coples in any way, but attacked fans that try to equate football stats with actual performance.
I pointed out that is is easier for a Edge DE like Jones to be noticed and that
Coples is playing multiple positions and not just the edge.

If you don't read my posts, fine i understand that you don't like to hear an opposing fans take. But please don't mis-state what I said in my posts to other posters who made not have read every post in the thread..

I apologize then for lumping you with the rest. Same for Rob. I don't mind having a discussion, but TX drags everything into the dumpster with his moronic posts. He is the equivalent to sg3 just the complete opposite. Everyone on the Jets sucks, our rookies are trash... and Rex likes to punt babies.

[Jason423]

Originally Posted by Rob0729

Although it is way too early to declare anything about any rookie, your stats are a bit misleading. Jones has played 91.9% of the Pats' defensive snaps (according to ESPN Boston) and Coples has played 53.2% of the Jets' defensive snaps (according to NY Jets Cap). That is probably why Coples' numbers are better than full time starters like Dockett, Campbell, and Ngata. Coples has played more on obvious passing downs (especially earlier in the year) which will help his stats.

BTW, I think PFF is crap, but that is another discussion for another day.

.

I'm a proponent of Pffs raw data but I'm not a big fan of prp for two reasons. The main reason is because they dramatically overestimate the impact of a pressure on the outcome of a play. If you sack a qb the play is never successful. The odds go fromabout 35% failure to 100%. Under pressure it goes from 35% to something like 55%. There is no real logic that I can find in saying its 75% as productive as a sack. To me that's a number for agents to try to pump up their client.

The second is what you are pointing out which is the fact that a 2nd and 5 quick swing pass makes the pass rush a non-factor. That why most of the most efficient rushers are not three down players. Admittedly I don't know how you can value that numerically since we don't have down by down data per player to credit them properly but it should always be noted. I think last year Aldon Smith I had rated as most efficient but there is no way you could say he was more effective than Chris Long who played a ton of snaps rather than 3rd and 10. I do actually have the sack rates from last season by down and distance but I don't think anyone tracks it for players.

[samoljets]

Everyone Is the one we just missed. Crappy drafting has put us in this situation, Fuch rex

[Redrew]

Jones is a stud....this can't be argued. A day 1 starter that sets the edge and gets after the QB....that's very rare. The fact that he is the Pats biggest impact player on D as a rookie is even more impressive.
The haters are blind here.....Jones is playing 95% of the snaps ....as a rookie. He's been able to dial up his QB pressure when the Pats have needed it the most despite being on the field for virtually the entire game.
The Pats are #2 against the run yielding only 3.5yds/rush.....better than Houston, Sf, Pitt, Chi. And don't try the Pats get the early lead therefore teams abandon the run argument.....The pats have defended 40 more rushes than Chicago that gives up 4.3 yds/rush, 38 more rushes than Houston (4.0), 21 more than Pitt (4.0).
Jones fits Belichicks 1st round criterion better than probably any player he's drafted since Seymour. A three down impact player equally strong vs rush and pass that teams must scheme against...therefore making his team mates better. If the Pats could only solve their secondary issues, then Jones would really shine statistically.
One last point.....Jones came out after his junior year and the knock was that he was going to need time to grow into his body. Dominating in the NFL in what really is his senior year......the future looks even brighter for this young man.

[PatsFanTX]

Originally Posted by TheMo

Right... ignore stats follow the media. I like how you didn't address the facts either, because you can't spin that. You never bring anything useful to a discussion. Why you were unbanned will remain a mystery to me? Worst troll on here, get me patman. At least I can have a discussion with him.

As Rob mentioned in a previous post, Jones has played in 92% of the Pats defensive plays and Coples has only been on the field for 53% of the Jets defensive plays. That skews the numbers.