Question for SAR

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Thank you for reiterating that teams with the worst offensive lines in the NFL suck.

Mark Sanchez doesn't cause his own sacks. Mark Sanchez doesn't fumble when untouched. Mark Sanchez never took a holding penalty.

SAR I

Actually as usual you have no idea what you are talking about.

These stats talk about BALL DICIPLINE...when to thrown it away, when to take a sack and maintain possession, when not to force a thrown.

Mark Sanchez doesn't cause his own sacks. He most definitely does when he holds the ball too long.

Mark Sanchez doesn't fumble when untouched. Good QBs have something called FIELD and GAME SENSE...they know when to bottle up, hold the ball and get a FG. Not fumble in the redzone, at the end of a half and leave points on the field.

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by SAR I

He NEVER had all this talent around him.

Even in the good years, he was straddled with an inconsistent running game and a carpetbagging array of castoff and has-been receiving targets. Every year Edwards out Burress in, Cotchery out Kerley in. LT out, nobody in.

Mark has ALWAYS outplayed the talent around him, but this year it's simply too barren for him to do anything with, we lost a few of the pathetic targets we had even last year. It's criminal.

SAR I

In 2009 we led the league in rushing....so suffice to say TJ and our Oline did well.

Mark OUTPLAYED them to the tune of:

196 of 364 2,444 yards 12 tds and 20 picks

Great job

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Joe W. Namath

Mark Sanchez stinks. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it.

Nope. And let's get right to the point:

The Jets are NOT supposed to win in the air. They're not supposed to be a team that airs it out 45 times a game. They are constructed to win on a stifling DEFENSE and a ball-controlling RUNNING GAME.

It is only because those two areas SUCK that Mark Sanchez is being asked to do too much on an offense that's not constructed to win that way. He's the SCAPEGOAT for Rex Ryan and Mike Tannenbaum.

Typical JI, blaming the wrong people again and again.

SAR I

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by SAR I

He NEVER had all this talent around him.

Even in the good years, he was straddled with an inconsistent running game and a carpetbagging array of castoff and has-been receiving targets. Every year Edwards out Burress in, Cotchery out Kerley in. LT out, nobody in.

Mark has ALWAYS outplayed the talent around him, but this year it's simply too barren for him to do anything with, we lost a few of the pathetic targets we had even last year. It's criminal.

SAR I

No, Mark Sanchez has rarely IF EVER outplayed the talent around him. Your diatribes and those of others testify to this fact. For Sanchez to be successful, apparently, he needs an top 5 running game, a top 5 defense, 5 All Pros on the offensive line, and Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, and Gronkowsi as his receiving corps.

Hell, I have a 15 year old cousin named Martha who could be a successful QB if surrounded by that kind of talent.

[jetster]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

mark Sanchez lost both the Miami and the Pats game.

Are we watching the same games?
Sanchez was 16 for 19 with 2 drops for 190 yards in the 2nd half of the Pats game & put a ball right on Hills hands (he could not have handed off any better) on a crucial 3rd down.

The special teams were HORRENDOUS vs Miami! Even Westhoff called it "the worst game of my career!"
Do u know how long Westhoff has been coaching?

SAR 1 is right, you can't throw Mark out with the bathwater until you see what he can do with players around him & legitimate threat at running back.
You put McCoy behind Mark & see if DBs & safeties are crawling all over his azz at the snap of the ball.
Greene makes it to easy for the defense to cheat, because he's not a threat to get to the next level so it squeezes the field that much more. No one here is saying Sanchez is great, no one, but we have seen him have really good games.
Remember that the Chargers once traded Drew Brees. Brees obviously is a more accurate QB but he still "GOT BETTER" later in his career.

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Nope. And let's get right to the point:

The Jets are NOT supposed to win in the air. They're not supposed to be a team that airs it out 45 times a game. They are constructed to win on a stifling DEFENSE and a ball-controlling RUNNING GAME.

It is only because those two areas SUCK that Mark Sanchez is being asked to do too much on an offense that's not constructed to win that way. He's the SCAPEGOAT for Rex Ryan and Mike Tannenbaum.

Typical JI, blaming the wrong people again and again.

SAR I

And one of the reasons that the Jets have that kind of offense is that they took a QB at #5, the 7th highest paid QB in the league, who sucks when it comes to passing the ball.

Farking Kyle Orton would be a serious upgrade.

[sec318]

Does't he have 3 probowlers onthe line. Two of which are 1rstt round draft picks.

Originally Posted by SAR I

My answer is very simple:

He has no tools to work with. The worst OL, worst RB, worst receivers, worst OC since the pre-Parcells era, you need to go back to Kotite to find something as bad.

In games where our awful OL, RB, and WR's overmatch pathetic competition, we're 3-0. In games where our awful OL, RB, and WR's are overmatched by decent or superior competition, we're 0-5.

This ain't rocket science.

SAR I

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

Actually as usual you have no idea what you are talking about.

These stats talk about BALL DICIPLINE...when to thrown it away, when to take a sack and maintain possession, when not to force a thrown.

Mark Sanchez doesn't cause his own sacks. He most definitely does when he holds the ball too long.

Mark Sanchez doesn't fumble when untouched. Good QBs have something called FIELD and GAME SENSE...they know when to bottle up, hold the ball and get a FG. Not fumble in the redzone, at the end of a half and leave points on the field.

Mark Sanchez was not drafted to lead the 1980 San Diego Chargers Air Coryell Offense.

He is not supposed to be asked to throw the ball 50 times a game, especially with the craptastic receiving targets he's been given.

As usual, here's a heated Mark Sanchez thread on an angry Friday. Where's the Shonn Greene thread? Where's the Rex Ryan thread? Where's the Bart Scott David Harris thread? Where is the finger of blame and why isn't it being pointed at the right villains?

Mark Sanchez isn't playing well right now. We all know this. That isn't the point.

The point is that even with Mark playing weakly we are SUPPOSED to win it on DEFENSE and a POWER RUNNING GAME of which we have NEITHER. Talk about THAT.

I wish that Mark Sanchez was the problem. Truly, I do. Would be so simple if we could just remove him like Testaverde '02 and have a magical turnaround to a division title. He's not the problem. He's not the quick-fix. The defense SUCKS and the running game SUCKS and the coaching is MEDIOCRE and so the fact that the quarterback is weak doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

SAR I

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by jetster

Are we watching the same games?
Sanchez was 16 for 19 with 2 drops for 190 yards in the 2nd half of the Pats game & put a ball right on Hills hands (he couild not have handed off any better) on a crucial 3rd down.

The special teams were HORRENDOUS vs Miami! Even Westhoff called it "the worst game of my career!"
Do u know how long Westhoff has been coaching?

SAR 1 is right, you can't throw Mark out with the bathwater until you see what he can do with players around him & legitimate threat at running back.
You put McCoy behind Mark & see if DBs & safeties are crawling all over his azz at the snap of the ball.
Greene makes it to easy for the defense to cheat, because he's not a threat to get to the next level so it squeezes the field that much more. No one here is saying Sanchez is great, no one, but we have seen him have really good games.
Remember that the Chargers once traded Drew Brees. Brees obviously is a more accurate QB but he still "GOT BETTER" later in his career.

Look, in no way did sanchez lose the pats game for us, by himself. His number were excellent for most of that game.

However what I am saying is that he does not make the 1 or 2 plays per game that are necessary to elevate his team. He can "not lose" a game for you, but to win in the league you need your QB to be a leader and make plays when it counts.

We all blame hill for his drop vs the pats....but what if sanchez had simply hit him earlier in the game when he was wide open in the endzone? That is a pass he HAS to hit.

What about pitts, where our defense couldnt get off the field. Would things have changed if sanchez hit a wide open holmes in the endzone and we went up 14-0 in the first quarter?

We dont have the 1999 Rams on offense here, but we have enough talent to not be able to put up more then 10 points against miami at home.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by sec318

Does't he have 3 probowlers onthe line. Two of which are 1rstt round draft picks.

Yeah, in 2009.

The 2012 versions of these overpaid fatties living off their reputations, suck.

SAR I

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

And one of the reasons that the Jets have that kind of offense is that they took a QB at #5, the 7th highest paid QB in the league, who sucks when it comes to passing the ball.

Farking Kyle Orton would be a serious upgrade.

Don't talk to me about where he was drafted. We'd have taken him at #32 if he were available there.

Favre left town, Pennington left town, Clemens was a joke, there were no quality QB free agents. The only play, and it was the right one, was to take the best QB in the draft and give it a shot with a rookie HC.

What he makes and where he was drafted doesn't matter. He was our best option and we needed to get up to #5 to get him or we'd have no quarterback in 2009.

He won 4 playoff games in 2 years and played well in the 2 we lost. After decades of waiting to find a guy who was money in the postseason you don't get rid of him because Rex Ryan is trying to win a Super Bowl like the f-cking 1985 Chicago Bears and Mike Tannenbaum has got his head up his ass on evaluating talent.

History will show that Mark Sanchez was the only thing the Ryan/Tannenbaum combo got right.

SAR I

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by SAR I

You're heading in the wrong direction.

Mark Sanchez did not lose the Patriots game. The defense did.

Mark Sanchez did not lose the Dolphins game. Special teams who killed us and the defense who couldn't stop a back up QB did.

If the defense and special teams play up to the levels that their "bestest coaches in the whole NFL" say they should, we're 5-3 right now, leading the AFC East at the turn.

SAR I

Sanchez either directly committed or was a huge factor in 3 turnovers in the Pats games. You do not win road games against good teams in the NFL when you commit 3 turnovers. All the D did was make Brady look bad and ineffective for the majority of the game. Overall he led the Pats to a whopping 22 points on offense in 4.5 quarters. Does that sound Tom Brady-like? The following week Brady led the Pats to 5 TDs in his first 5 drives against the Rams. Did he do that against us?

Sanchez was pitiful in the Dolphins game, turning it over twice and taking 55 passes to throw for like 270 yards. The Jets offense was marked by 3 and outs and ineffective drives that went nowhere. The following week Luck threw for 430 yards against the same D and had the Colts moving the ball the entire day.

Sorry, you hitched your wagon to a loser. Accept it and move on. The Jets franchise will soon do the same. I wish Mark well holding the clipboard wherever he lands, assuming any other team even wants his services for that.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by SAR I

History will show that Mark Sanchez was the only thing the Ryan/Tannenbaum combo got right.

SAR I

When it doesn't, are you going to tell us that you weren't really saying Mark Sanchez was what they got right, but the idea of drafting a QB in the first round was the right one? I seem to recall you saying something similar about another USC QB who has flaked out in the league.

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by SAR I

When you find me receiving targets like James Jones, Jordy Nelson, Jermichael Finley, and Greg Jennings in Mark Sanchez' locker room you let me know.

SAR I

Id like you to explain the above post.

1. Jennings has been hurt the entire year.

2. Finley has 47 catches for a whopping 271 yards and 1 TD

3. The GB line has given up 29 sacks.

4. GB has not had a back over 100 yards this year

So when guys went down, people like james jones (a drop prone, average WR) and randall cobb (a 2nd year player, drafted with the last pick of the 2nd round) came in and have THRIVED.

Could it at all be possible, that this happened because the QB knows how to get his guys in the right spots, and gets them the ball, even when his line is struggling and his running game isnt going?

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by SAR I

He NEVER had all this talent around him.

Even in the good years, he was straddled with an inconsistent running game and a carpetbagging array of castoff and has-been receiving targets. Every year Edwards out Burress in, Cotchery out Kerley in. LT out, nobody in.

Mark has ALWAYS outplayed the talent around him, but this year it's simply too barren for him to do anything with, we lost a few of the pathetic targets we had even last year. It's criminal.

SAR I

An inconsistent running game? LMAO. #1 rushing in 2009, #3 rushing in 2010. Face it, if Sanchez had been drafted by teams like Newton, Bradford, or Luck got drafted to, he'd be out of the league already and would probably be unsigned right now with a career 0-0 playoff record. Sanchez got drafted to a very good football team. But he held it back with his pitiful play from day 1.

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

When it doesn't, are you going to tell us that you weren't really saying Mark Sanchez was what they got right, but the idea of drafting a QB in the first round was the right one? I seem to recall you saying something similar about another USC QB who has flaked out in the league.

The fact that he brought up Mike Francesa, of all people, in support of his borderline insane position, says all you need to know. Francesa trolls the Jets fanbase intentionally. He knows Jets fan dislike Sanchez and want him gone, that is why Francesa is defending him. If Sanchez were playing great and the fanbase loved him, Francesa would be ripping him to death, saying he still had zero rings, saying he couldn't win the big one. Francesa's act, like SARS, is real old.

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by jetster

Are we watching the same games?
Sanchez was 16 for 19 with 2 drops for 190 yards in the 2nd half of the Pats game & put a ball right on Hills hands (he couild not have handed off any better) on a crucial 3rd down.

Yes, I watched both games. Guess what ? You can take just about any close game and go back and identify one or two plays earlier in the game that would have changed things. "Oh, if that RB had broken one more tackle, he would have scored a TD", or "if So and So would have gotten a good block there, that was a TD".

Yes, Hill had a drop and the play calling was suspect. BUT, at the end of the day, Mark Sanchez had the ball in his hands, plenty of time on the clock, and only needed to drive down for a FG or a TD to win the game. He missed a wide open receiver streaking down the right sideline. He then took a sack that should have been avoided, and to compound the issue, he didn't take care of the ball and managed to fumble it away.

Now, if Greene had fumbled that ball, I would put the loss on him. If Tebow had come in and thrown an INT or fumbled the ball away, I'd put it on him as well. If Sparano had called 3 straight dives into the line and then called for another dive on 4th and 8, I'd put it on him.

Like it or not, as I said, Sanchez had the ball in his hands at the end of the game and he blew it.

The special teams were HORRENDOUS vs Miami! Even Westhoff called it "the worst game of my career!"
Do u know how long Westhoff has been coaching?

Guess what ? At the end of all the Special Teams miscues, the game was still 10-0.

What else happened in that game ? Hmm, I don't know. On the first 6 freaking drives, Sanchez managed to lead the offense to a whopping 27 net yards ??

People want to talk about field position. What's a good way to lose that battle ? Get the ball at your 20 yard line after a touchback and then go 3 and out after gaining 4 whole yards. Of course, the strip/sack/fumble at the 32 yard line didn't help much, now did it ?? 4 seconds on the drop and Sanchez once again oblivious to a blitz from the left side.

SAR 1 is right, you can't throw Mark out with the bathwater until you see what he can do with players around him & legitimate threat at running back.
You put McCoy behind Mark & see if DBs & safeties are crawling all over his azz at the snap of the ball.

Greene makes it to easy for the defense to cheat, because he's not a threat to get to the next level so it squeezes the field that much more. No one here is saying Sanchez is great, no one, but we have seen him have really good games.
Remember that the Chargers once traded Drew Brees. Brees obviously is a more accurate QB but he still "GOT BETTER" later in his career.

Drew Brees was throwing the ball at a 65% clip and had season passer ratings of 104.8 and 89.2 prior to being let go by SD, ie. he had already shown that he was more than capable as an NFL QB.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by SlickBri481

An inconsistent running game? LMAO. #1 rushing in 2009, #3 rushing in 2010. Face it, if Sanchez had been drafted by teams like Newton, Bradford, or Luck got drafted to, he'd be out of the league already and would probably be unsigned right now with a career 0-0 playoff record. Sanchez got drafted to a very good football team. But he held it back with his pitiful play from day 1.

Top-10 defense in both seasons also...

The same defense that held the eventual Super Bowl champs of the 2010 season to 9 points of offense while Sanchez and crew failed to put up a single point.

But somehow, that's the defense/OL/RB/WRs fault.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

In 2009 we led the league in rushing....so suffice to say TJ and our Oline did well.

Mark OUTPLAYED them to the tune of:

196 of 364 2,444 yards 12 tds and 20 picks

Great job

Rookie QB asked to start immediately. Goes 20-12 in his first two seasons, 4-2 in his first two postseasons.

Boy, I'd hate to have a guy like that leading my team.

SAR I

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

Top-10 defense in both seasons also...

The same defense that held the eventual Super Bowl champs of the 2010 season to 9 points of offense while Sanchez and crew failed to put up a single point.

But somehow, that's the defense/OL/RB/WRs fault.

Oh that Green Bay game is on Mark, not the defense, no doubt.

Just like the Detroit, Houston, Denver, Cleveland, and Indianapolis games were WON by Mark in the same season, games in which the defense couldn't hold a lead late and only Mark's heroics saved the day and the season.

The 2010 Jets are 7-9 without Mark Sanchez.

SAR I