Question for SAR

[Warfish]

So your previous arguments stated that Sanchez is ok, because he's good enough to win with an elite Defense and eite Rushing Attack, i.e. the Rex Ryan Plan.

But you also say repeatedly that the Rex Ryan Plan is a "stupid strategy to win in today's NFL" and "doesn't work".

We seem to have a contradition. We have a QB who is only good enough to win with an elite D and Running Game, on a team that is not good enough to win with that system, a system you say cannopt win in the NFL, hence by extention you're saying Mark Sanchez cannot win in the NFL.

By logical extention then, you have made an argument that the team must shift to a different plan as part of it's rebuild (i.e. fire Rex, abandon the D+Rushing Tactic) AND dump the QB you've been long defending, as your own argument clearly shows that Mark Sanchez can only win in the very system you've argued should be dumped.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Warfish

So your previous arguments stated that Sanchez is ok, because he's good enough to win with an elite Defense and eite Rushing Attack, i.e. the Rex Ryan Plan.

But you also say repeatedly that the Rex Ryan Plan is a "stupid strategy to win in today's NFL" and "doesn't work".

We seem to have a contradition. We have a QB who is only good enough to win with an elite D and Running Game, on a team that is not good enough to win with that system, a system you say cannopt win in the NFL, hence by extention you're saying Mark Sanchez cannot win in the NFL.

By logical extention then, you have made an argument that the team must shift to a different plan as part of it's rebuild (i.e. fire Rex, abandon the D+Rushing Tactic) AND dump the QB you've been long defending, as your own argument clearly shows that Mark Sanchez can only win in the very system you've argued should be dumped.

Ugh. So yesterday I'm "schtick" and today I'm "caught in a logic trap". Can you just debate the points without trying to decipher my motivation Dr. Pavlov?

Rex Ryan's strategy that patterns the 1985 Bears defense and 1959 Packers offense is flawed because eventually you need to score a lot of points against an elite opponent and you can't do it. Both AFCCG's, and had we made it, both subsequent Super Bowls show that. Couldn't have outscored the '09 Colts and Saints, couldn't have outscored the '10 Steelers and Packers. It's good for a high winning percentage against scrub teams, nothing more.

Mark Sanchez, when surrounded with better talent and a legitimate rushing attack, was a good quarterback in Rex Ryan's flawed strategy. A bit more than a game manager, had an uncanny comeback ability in the 4th quarter, took hits that would have sent other QB's to the hospital, wants to make something out of every play, tough kid, rough around the edges, not a quitter.

What I'm saying is that in the stupid Rex Ryan strategy we've seen flashes of brilliance from Mark Sanchez, especially under late-season and postseason pressure, that indicate he might indeed be able to thrive a-la Eli Manning with some legitimate receivers who are playmaking gamechangers. Mark was at his best when he had the likes of Edwards to stretch the sidelines, Cotchery to make the tough plays, Holmes to cross the middle, Burress to own the red zone, Keller pushing vertically, and Tomlinson to dump off to.

Problem is, he never had all those guys in the same season. Problem is, half of them were old and didn't have the stamina for a whole season. Problem is, every year there's another group of has-beens or never-beens shuttled in/out because Mike Tannenbaum is stretching every dollar to support the Front Seven who still suck to this day.

So I believe one of the following two scenarios to be our best chance at success:

1. Keep Mark Sanchez, keep Rex Ryan, get a first-rate offensive coordinator in here to run his own show and support them with kick-ass receiving targets and a legitimate rushing attack. Rex is a great DC, he can fix the D. He's clueless on the O. Keep trying to win it the wrong way with the wrong strategy, but at least put up points, perhaps it can work.

2. Keep Mark Sanchez, dump Rex Ryan, go to the strategy that the rest of the NFL employs, screw the defense, win it with a mega offense. With a good set of tools, see if Sanchez has what it takes, see if your investment has some fruit.

SAR I

[GandWFan]

Originally Posted by SAR I

It's frustrating to sit here posting my thoughts and having someone tell me that I'm creating an artificial argument just to amuse myself.

It's insulting, it makes SAR feel sad.

SAR I

You do not play this game to amuse yourself. You are a narcissist. It is a sickness. Your attention whoring with this Mark Sanchez nonsense is a symptom, not the actual problem. Please seek help.

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Ugh. So yesterday I'm "schtick" and today I'm "caught in a logic trap".

As if you can't be both, and more.

Deflections will not obscure the inherant weakness of your argument, or the reality of your attention whoring look-at-me ways, SAR. You're repetition wall-o-text is just more of the same.

In any event, there is little argument worth countering at this point. You defend a QB who cannot complete half his passes, is the worst pocket-passer in the NFL, and is a guaranteed two-turnover-per-game gift to our opponents.

You'd keep him, and in true Madden-style, would fire every other player on the team and every Coach in the staff.

Me, I'd move on from Sanchez, and see if we can get better.

At the end of the day, be happy SAR, you're going to get your wish. The Jets realisticly cannot move Sanchez due to salary and contract, him or Holmes. And Rex is all but fired now.

So you'll get your wish. A Rex-free, Sanchez-led team in 2013. Of course by then, you'll have a new look-at-me post-in-my-thread attention-getting schtick, and thats ok.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by GandWFan

You do not play this game to amuse yourself. You are a narcissist. It is a sickness. Your attention whoring with this Mark Sanchez nonsense is a symptom, not the actual problem. Please seek help.

Ah, so I am an attention whoring narcissist am I?

It's funny, I was told the exact same thing from May through August when I said the Jets were not talented enough and were going to have a bad season, remember?

I was told I was sooo stupid to think the Jets had 5-11 talent that the only reason I must be stating it is because I want attention and I'm a narcissist. Well, how do I look now? Sure looks like I was the only one with a level head this past summer, doesn't it? Sure looks like everyone else was sniffing glue and not paying attention, doesn't it? Sure looks like a bunch of people were in denial and didn't want to hear the truth, doesn't it?

Do yourself a favor: stop trying to decipher the inner workings of my thought process and start listening to what I'm saying.

SAR I

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Ugh. So yesterday I'm "schtick" and today I'm "caught in a logic trap". Can you just debate the points without trying to decipher my motivation Dr. Pavlov?

Rex Ryan's strategy that patterns the 1985 Bears defense and 1959 Packers offense is flawed because eventually you need to score a lot of points against an elite opponent and you can't do it. Both AFCCG's, and had we made it, both subsequent Super Bowls show that. Couldn't have outscored the '09 Colts and Saints, couldn't have outscored the '10 Steelers and Packers. It's good for a high winning percentage against scrub teams, nothing more.

Mark Sanchez, when surrounded with better talent and a legitimate rushing attack, was a good quarterback in Rex Ryan's flawed strategy. A bit more than a game manager, had an uncanny comeback ability in the 4th quarter, took hits that would have sent other QB's to the hospital, wants to make something out of every play, tough kid, rough around the edges, not a quitter.

What I'm saying is that in the stupid Rex Ryan strategy we've seen flashes of brilliance from Mark Sanchez, especially under late-season and postseason pressure, that indicate he might indeed be able to thrive a-la Eli Manning with some legitimate receivers who are playmaking gamechangers. Mark was at his best when he had the likes of Edwards to stretch the sidelines, Cotchery to make the tough plays, Holmes to cross the middle, Burress to own the red zone, Keller pushing vertically, and Tomlinson to dump off to.

Problem is, he never had all those guys in the same season. Problem is, half of them were old and didn't have the stamina for a whole season. Problem is, every year there's another group of has-beens or never-beens shuttled in/out because Mike Tannenbaum is stretching every dollar to support the Front Seven who still suck to this day.

So I believe one of the following two scenarios to be our best chance at success:

1. Keep Mark Sanchez, keep Rex Ryan, get a first-rate offensive coordinator in here to run his own show and support them with kick-ass receiving targets and a legitimate rushing attack. Rex is a great DC, he can fix the D. He's clueless on the O. Keep trying to win it the wrong way with the wrong strategy, but at least put up points, perhaps it can work.

2. Keep Mark Sanchez, dump Rex Ryan, go to the strategy that the rest of the NFL employs, screw the defense, win it with a mega offense. With a good set of tools, see if Sanchez has what it takes, see if your investment has some fruit.

SAR I

Enough with the blame game....

"Its not sanchez, Rex let the defense get slow and old. Ground and Pound doesnt work we cant run the ball"

Ya know whose team has no RB, injuries across the line and an old and slow defense...the Steelers. Shockingly they are still a good team because THEIR QB MAKES PLAYS.

"We didnt focus on drafting skill position players"

Since getting Eli, the giants took ONE OFFENSIVE PLAYER in the 1st round up until they took david wilson this year. No one over there is complaining because THEIR QB MAKES THE PLAYERS AROUND HIM BETTER.

"We are built on a flawed strategy of defense and running game winning"

Ask baltimore, Pitts, the Texans and SF if defense and running the ball works well.

Furthermore, does our coach talk too much absolutely...that is the only reason why "ground and pound" is considered our philosophy. There isnt a single coach in the league that if asked "do you want to run the ball well and play excellent defense" wouldnt say HELLL YES.

3 years ago we needed to have sanchez be a game manager, he was too young and inexperienced. But this is his 4th year, we need him to make plays that WIN games for us. Just like every other successful QB in the league...

This is no longer sanchez's rookie year, to say "we drafted him to be above average" is probably the dumbest thing on here. When you trade into the top 5 to take a QB you expect that player to lead you to a championship.

[southparkcpa]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Ah, so I am an attention whoring narcissist am I?

It's funny, I was told the exact same thing from May through August when I said the Jets were not talented enough and were going to have a bad season, remember?

I was told I was sooo stupid to think the Jets had 5-11 talent that the only reason I must be stating it is because I want attention and I'm a narcissist. Well, how do I look now? Sure looks like I was the only one with a level head this past summer, doesn't it? Sure looks like everyone else was sniffing glue and not paying attention, doesn't it? Sure looks like a bunch of people were in denial and didn't want to hear the truth, doesn't it?

Do yourself a favor: stop trying to decipher the inner workings of my thought process and start listening to what I'm saying.

SAR I

SAR I...I have been with you all along. However...starting to think that Mark is a bigger issue than we thought. yesterdays fumble was inexcusable.

Listened to Colin Cowherd and they did a piece on Southern California QB's.... very few make a dent.

[Salz]

SAR doesn't get it at all. I really question his football knowledge. He wants to keep Sanchez because of his win/loss record the first two seasons? In both years, the Jets had a top 5 running game and defense. Hell, they were #1 overall in both in 2009. Yet they only finished 9-7 and lucked into the playoffs. How? BECAUSE SANCHEZ SUCKED. Was he only a rookie? Sure. But if we had a QB like Pennington completing over 60% of his passes (managing the game) with the #1 ranked D and #1 ranked RB game, we'd have gone 12-4. And in those miracle comeback games in 2010, Sanchez did step up at the end, but he also struggled mightily in the first 3 quarters of those games. If he had played better early on, they wouldn't have needed his comebacks. Look at the big picture.

And stop blaming his surrounding "talent" for his lack of production. Yeah, his weapons aren't good. But good QB's still complete more than half of their passes! It's his 4th season and he looks like a rookie out there. Holds onto the ball too long. And what's your excuse on his RZ INT yesterday? Keller was wide open, he waited too long, and threw a piece of **** pass that changed the momentum of the game.

Also, yesterday's loss was completely on Sanchez and the offense. You cannot argue that. I know you love putting down our defense, but they were great for the first 3 until THEY WORE DOWN FROM ALWAYS BEING ON THE ****ING FIELD. And as you watch Tom Brady light up every defense he plays, have you finally realized our defense did a great job keeping him in check? Our D is very good, even without Revis. OUR OFFENSE IS ATROCIOUS AND THE BIGGEST REASON FOR THAT IS MARK SANCHEZ. Moron.

[Salz]

SAR: Don't forget we took Sanchez instead of Freeman, who looks fantastic out there. More weapons, sure, but Vincent Jackson's presence doesn't increase a QB's completion percentage by ****ing 10 points. Sanchez has more playoff success because Tampa Bay didn't have a great running game or defense in 09 and 10. Now they're O.K. everywhere, and it's actually Freeman who is carrying his team to success.

[Salz]

Sanchez has four int's in the red zone already this season. Chad Pennington didn't have one for 3 seasons yet SAR wanted him run out of town, apparently because he couldn't beat a dynasty-worthy team like the Patriots (one of the best runs of all time in 03-04) with Santana "Jerry Rice" Moss and Jericho "Lynn Swann" Cotchery as his receivers. He was two Doug Brien missed field goals away from getting us to the AFC Title Game in 04. You're the worst person I've ever seen on here.

[cornjulio21]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

Do you seriously think peyton wouldnt make this team better then it is now with sanchez? Are you deluisonal?

Name a single game where sanchez has elevated the play of those around him...

Ding. Sanchez has not grown. Can't read a D, can't audible. He's on GPS.

No knowledge or common sense about the alternative routes to the destination. Plows straight ahead to the accident and construction traffic.

In reality, the performance is so bad there is no accountability. Somewhere, someone's head needs to roll now. Otherwise you're accepting failure.

[palmetto defender]

Originally Posted by white lightning

I would like to see Ryan win a playoff game, don't like Cutler....Flacco is way overrated imo.

Ridiculous statement. That's like saying Marino and Tarkenton were no good because they never won it all. Or Warren Moon or Fouts or Jim Kelly.

Ryan is light years better than Sanchez. Cutler is a jerk but he is too. And Rivers.

The Jets won some playoff games becauseof DEFENSE not this loser from Southern Cal. A little twinkie.

[VonDarkmoor]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Ah, so I am an attention whoring narcissist am I?

It's funny, I was told the exact same thing from May through August when I said the Jets were not talented enough and were going to have a bad season, remember?

I was told I was sooo stupid to think the Jets had 5-11 talent that the only reason I must be stating it is because I want attention and I'm a narcissist. Well, how do I look now? Sure looks like I was the only one with a level head this past summer, doesn't it? Sure looks like everyone else was sniffing glue and not paying attention, doesn't it? Sure looks like a bunch of people were in denial and didn't want to hear the truth, doesn't it?

Do yourself a favor: stop trying to decipher the inner workings of my thought process and start listening to what I'm saying.

SAR I

You really don't want to start playing the "I was right after all game" you predict doom before every season, and want every Jets coach fired.... Matt Leinart anyone? and that is just for starters.

[JetsFanatic]

Originally Posted by VonDarkmoor

You really don't want to start playing the "I was right after all game" you predict doom before every season, and want every Jets coach fired.... Matt Leinart anyone? and that is just for starters.

...and he wasn't right. The record he predicted at this point seems on course but he gave the wrong reasons. His boy whom he always defends, Mark Sanchez, stinks.

[thebigragu]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Ah, so I am an attention whoring narcissist am I?

It's funny, I was told the exact same thing from May through August when I said the Jets were not talented enough and were going to have a bad season, remember?

I was told I was sooo stupid to think the Jets had 5-11 talent that the only reason I must be stating it is because I want attention and I'm a narcissist. Well, how do I look now? Sure looks like I was the only one with a level head this past summer, doesn't it? Sure looks like everyone else was sniffing glue and not paying attention, doesn't it? Sure looks like a bunch of people were in denial and didn't want to hear the truth, doesn't it?

Do yourself a favor: stop trying to decipher the inner workings of my thought process and start listening to what I'm saying.

SAR I

I'm not questioning your football knowledge at all. You're usually spot on and I agree with you 99% of the time.

Which is why I find your Sanchez stance awkward and way off. Nobodys perfect. We all got flaws

[JetsFanatic]

Originally Posted by Salz

Sanchez has four int's in the red zone already this season. Chad Pennington didn't have one for 3 seasons yet SAR wanted him run out of town, apparently because he couldn't beat a dynasty-worthy team like the Patriots (one of the best runs of all time in 03-04) with Santana "Jerry Rice" Moss and Jericho "Lynn Swann" Cotchery as his receivers. He was two Doug Brien missed field goals away from getting us to the AFC Title Game in 04. You're the worst person I've ever seen on here.

Pennington>Sanchez. Not even close.

Unfortunately Pennington just couldn't stay on the field.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by palmetto defender

Ridiculous statement. That's like saying Marino and Tarkenton were no good because they never won it all. Or Warren Moon or Fouts or Jim Kelly.

Ryan is light years better than Sanchez. Cutler is a jerk but he is too. And Rivers.

The Jets won some playoff games becauseof DEFENSE not this loser from Southern Cal. A little twinkie.

While I might use a different word, this has become yet another problem I have with Sanchez. He's as soft a QB as there is in this league. He's in the fetal position the second the rush comes in, or he's making the ***** move of putting the ball on the ground like he did yesterday. Where are the scrambles? Where's the escapability? Where's the fire?

To bring back a memorable quote from '04: "He's...like an egg back there."

That's exactly what he is. Physically, mentally, and metaphorically.

[Salz]

Guys Sanchez is terrible. Everyone realizes this except SAR and a handful of others. Tebow would sadly be an upgrade and I doubt McElroy can be any worse. I'd even take MATT SIMMS right now. Where's Brooks Bollinger?

[Down, Set, Haiku]

Originally Posted by palmetto defender

Ridiculous statement. That's like saying Marino and Tarkenton were no good because they never won it all. Or Warren Moon or Fouts or Jim Kelly.

Ryan is light years better than Sanchez. Cutler is a jerk but he is too. And Rivers.

The Jets won some playoff games because of DEFENSE not this little twink loser from Southern Cal.

FIXED

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Salz

Guys Sanchez is terrible. Everyone realizes this except SAR and a handful of others. Tebow would sadly be an upgrade and I doubt McElroy can be any worse. I'd even take MATT SIMMS right now. Where's Brooks Bollinger?

Time out.

Mark Sanchez is terrible this season. That's a fact, nothing I'm hiding from. The discussion is that:

This season is over. The question becomes whether or not Mark Sanchez can be what we need him to be with the right set of tools to work with. I say "yes". Others say "no". I say keep him and commit to the offense in the offseason. Others say dump him because he's got nothing to give. We'll see.

SAR I