Mark Sanchez: The Real Problem - PFF Article

[SMC]

Originally Posted by Beerfish

You want to know the best way for the front office to get everyone back on Sanchez's side? Bench him and start Tebow. If he is as bad as everyone says people will be begging to get Sanchez back as the starter. I simply don't think he would overall be worse than our present starter as far as results go.

Jason on his site explained why the Jets can't start Tebow now financially. If Tebow starts his salary balloons to $7 mil next year because of escalators.

[Beerfish]

Originally Posted by SMC

I just expounded above. Tebow is blowing a golden opportunity that Sanchez' suckage provided him.

If Tebow looked good to his teammates don't you think these "bunch of sad sack underachiever loser players that are back stabbers" would be clamoring for Tebow to start?

Mehta would be publishing stories with backpage headlines: "TEBOW MUST START! " and "PLAYERS WANT TEBOW!"

So, I'm not saying Tebow would be much worse. I'm saying that his teammates believe that Tebow would be much worse and that's a problem. Tebow has been given an opportunity and he's blowing it.

We see this all the time. In fact, Tex would happily tell you that in 2001 before Bledsoe got hurt, Patriot players were reported as saying that Brady looked better than Bledsoe and they wanted him to get a shot. This was even after Bledsoe signed a $100+ million extension.

The Jets have the opposite problem. Sanchez sucks and the team is saying that the backup is terrible. That is a problem.

Everyone knows or should know that Tebow would never stack up against a real NFL Qb in 'practice' (said in an Allen Iverson voice). Tebow is not going to win you games by throwing the slant, the 7 yard out, the 10 yard hook. He may win you games by avoiding the rush and running for 12, heaving the long ball. He looked equally like garbage from reports when he was very reluctantly inserted as the Broncos starter last year.

Do I wish Tebow was even being considered to play QB? Nope, not at all. The fact is our present starter is so dreadful and makes so many awful plays at the worst time on the worst part of the field that almost anything would be better to watch. As I've said before, for the best thing for Sanchez as a QB to redeem his career is for him to have his ass firmly benched and a message sent that you have to earn the starters job and that you have been so bad this year that we are starting the stinky Tebow instead.

[greenwichjetfan]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

Go pull Sanchez's stats for the 9 games this year and compare them to Tebow's first 9 starts last year.

Guess who's overall stats are better ?

Tebow put up more yards, more TDs, fewer turnovers, and most importantly, more wins.

How incredibly analytical.

Choose an arbitrary sample size and data set to fit your argument, dismissing all other relevant information (9 games, first of one's short career, dismissing the three games he lost at the end, and the last of the other's longer career, where all he's done is lose, ignoring the first two years and 13 games where his stock was consistently rising), and GO!

Between this insightful and not-at-all biased data analysis, and your definition of 'sunk cost' in the other thread (given my long education in econ followed by a career in finance, I found your 'introduction of sunk cost to me' to be so especially ignorant that I couldn't bring myself to respond), I find it permissible to poke fun at how hard you have to try to convince yourself and others that Tebow is better than Sanchez.

Sanchez is the worst starting QB in the league (maybe save for Matt cassell), and yet Tebow is not seeing ANY playing time! Cherry pick all the tables and data and number sets you'd like, to 'prove' that Tebow is better than Sanchez (woopti freaking doo btw ), the proof is in the playing (or not playing for Tebow).

[Beerfish]

Originally Posted by SMC

Jason on his site explained why the Jets can't start Tebow now financially. If Tebow starts his salary balloons to $7 mil next year because of escalators.

That's fine, start McElroy. And Jasons article firmly shows that our GM and coach should be fired sooner than later. Especially the GM. Let's pretend that the starter actually got injured. What are the Jets going to do? I'm not a Tebow for Qb lover by any means but I've 100% had it with our present starter.

[SMC]

Originally Posted by Beerfish

That's fine, start McElroy. And Jasons article firmly shows that our GM and coach should be fired sooner than later. Especially the GM. Let's pretend that the starter actually got injured. What are the Jets going to do? I'm not a Tebow for Qb lover by any means but I've 100% had it with our present starter.

I agree, Mac should get a shot.

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by greenwichjetfan

How incredibly analytical.

Choose an arbitrary sample size and data set to fit your argument, dismissing all other relevant information (9 games, first of one's short career, last of the other's longer career), and GO!

Between this insightful and not-at-all biased data analysis, and your definition of 'sunk cost' in the other thread (given my long education in econ followed by a career in finance, I found your 'introduction of sunk cost to me' to be so especially ignorant that I couldn't bring myself to respond), I find it permissible to poke fun at how hard you have to try to convince yourself and others that Tebow is better than Sanchez.

Sanchez is the worst starting QB in the league (maybe save for Matt cassell), and yet Tebow is not seeing ANY playing time! Cherry pick all the tables and data and number sets you'd like, to 'prove' that Tebow is better than Sanchez (woopti freaking doo btw ), the proof is in the playing (or not playing for Tebow).

Actually, I was being charitable by using the stats the way I did. Usually, I'd compare the stats of Tebow's first 16 starts against those of Sanchez. BUT, then Sanchez fans would whine and point out that 13 of Tebow's starts came in his second year in the NFL, even though he wasn't the 1st string QB in TC or the preseason. Somehow, him being in the NFL holding a clip board for 6 additional months was an unfair advantage.

So, I went with the stats that arguably should be favorable to Sanchez. Tebow coming off the bench for 3 starts in 2010 and then coming off the bench again in mid season for an additional 6 starts.

That's the first 9 starts for a guy who was never #1 in TC, against the first 9 games this year of a 4th year starter who has gotten the first team reps in all 4 of the TCs he has been in.

So, how was that unfair or cherry picking exactly ?

As for "sunk costs", I was right on the money about it. Sanchez will get his money whether he's on the bench or starting. If there was no additional cost to start the 2nd or 3rd string QB, then from an economics standpoint, Sachez's salary is irrelevant to the decision making.

The only thing that changes the calculation, again, from an economic standpoint, would be escalators in Tebow's or McElroy's contracts. Items that add even more cost as either of them take more snaps.

[crasherino]

There are a lot of things that are true.....

1. It is true that Sanchez may not have been handled perfectly by this CS and the prior one.

2. It is true that Sanchez has shown flashes of very goodness.

3. It is true that Sanchez hasn't always had the best weapons to work with.

4. It is true that despite the flashes of success and the less than ideal handling from the CS, Sanchez should be much more developed than he is now.

5. It is true that Sanchez has moved from beyond merely inconsistent to downright bad.

6. It is true that Tim Tebow, while a potentially useful role player, is not an NFL caliber QB for the long term.

7. It is true that I am at a loss as to where to go from here.

[BleedGnW]

TE-BOW. TE-BOW. TE-BOW.

[McGinley]

> Successfully derail thread
> Rustle all the jimmies

Mirin' skills, brah?

[GreenGeek]

How many people believe any of the following?

• If Drew Stanton were still here he would be starting.
• There is some chance McElroy will start while Sanchez is not hurt.
• There is some chance Tebow will start while Sanchez is not hurt.

I say no way to all three.

No matter what Rex sticks with Sanchez. I believe that he made himself
so much of a player's coach that he acts like a player instead of a coach.

Rex has a terrible time benching anyone. Look at what it took to
get Austin Howard off the bench, when he was CLEARLY the better player.

Here is how a real coach makes decisions:

• Put Sanchez on the pines when he's earned it.
• Put Sanchez on the field when he has earned it.
• Oh, and his precious psyche?
  F"ck psyche...this is FOOTBALL!

[Joe W. Namath]

95% of us know Sanchez sucks.
5% of us hate tebow so much, we have convinced ourselves that Sanchez is good and the the jets screwed this up.

But if tim tebow is not on this team, 100% of us would be anti sanchez. Its only because of tebow hate that a few of us are still making excuses for Sanchez.

[greenwichjetfan]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

Actually, I was being charitable by using the stats the way I did. Usually, I'd compare the stats of Tebow's first 16 starts against those of Sanchez. BUT, then Sanchez fans would whine and point out that 13 of Tebow's starts came in his second year in the NFL, even though he wasn't the 1st string QB in TC or the preseason. Somehow, him being in the NFL holding a clip board for 6 additional months was an unfair advantage.

So, I went with the stats that arguably should be favorable to Sanchez. Tebow coming off the bench for 3 starts in 2010 and then coming off the bench again in mid season for an additional 6 starts.

That's the first 9 starts for a guy who was never #1 in TC, against the first 9 games this year of a 4th year starter who has gotten the first team reps in all 4 of the TCs he has been in.

So, how was that unfair or cherry picking exactly ?

Fair reasoning. It's still pathetic that the Tebow fan needs to justify trying to get Tebow to start by using incomplete data to prove that he's better than possibly the worst starting QB in the league.

Seriously, ask yourself this: if the Jets had a competent QB, do you not think he'd be playing in place of Sanchez? I mean...seriously?

As for "sunk costs", I was right on the money about it. Sanchez will get his money whether he's on the bench or starting. If there was no additional cost to start the 2nd or 3rd string QB, then from an economics standpoint, Sachez's salary is irrelevant to the decision making.

The only thing that changes the calculation, again, from an economic standpoint, would be escalators in Tebow's or McElroy's contracts. Items that add even more cost as either of them take more snaps.

Please go back to the thread and re-read it if you'd like to continue to defend yourself. I'll give you a hint: your introducing me to sunk costs had nothing to do with actual money terms...you tried unsuccessfully to use it as an analogy. This is back during the Patriots game.

[KR]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

And somewhere SAR crawls into a hole

The problem is only when one believes SAR has any idea of what he's talking about. He is simply a guy here to boost post count/views/threads. He does a terrific job in that respect.

[KR]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

GFY.


BTW, here's a newsflash for you. Go pull Sanchez's stats for the 9 games this year and compare them to Tebow's first 9 starts last year.

Guess who's overall stats are better ?

Tebow put up more yards, more TDs, fewer turnovers, and most importantly, more wins.

So like I said, GFY.

This is true.

The Sanchez fanboys attacking tebow in this thread are a joke. I hate Sanchez but once you bench him his career as a jet is over. His confidence will be done here and it's a huge decision. Once you hand the keys to tebow we already saw what happens. The fan base takes over.

They avoided it like hell last year too. This is about being loyal to mark and giving a last chance or two before his jet career is done.

To the Sanchez fanboys/tebow haters. Please stay off the wagon when tebow wins us games. I'm pretty sure we all know he will do better then mark right now

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by greenwichjetfan

Fair reasoning. It's still pathetic that the Tebow fan needs to justify trying to get Tebow to start by using incomplete data to prove that he's better than possibly the worst starting QB in the league.

Seriously, ask yourself this: if the Jets had a competent QB, do you not think he'd be playing in place of Sanchez? I mean...seriously?

I see the problem, you are viewing this from the wrong perspective. I'm not posting the stats to justify Tebow getting in per se, I'm pointing out that Sanchez sucks ballz and that Tebow might actually be better.

If the Jets had a seriously competent QB, I wouldn't be pushing for either Tebow or McElroy.

As to the question you actually asked, I don't think Tebow's competency is what is preventing him from starting. Rather, it's Rex digging in and doubling down on his Sanchez bet, perhaps coupled with the Cap situation.

Please go back to the thread and re-read it if you'd like to continue to defend yourself. I'll give you a hint: your introducing me to sunk costs had nothing to do with actual money terms...you tried unsuccessfully to use it as an analogy. This is back during the Patriots game.

I'm pretty sure that I've mentioned sunk costs in a couple of different threads. Please point me to what you are questioning, or just go ahead and quote it here and we can discuss it.

[Ciaran]

Benching him isn't a final decision - he's here next year whether we want him or not, he can still have a strong preseason and turn a lot of heads next year, football is a weird sport and weirder things have happened than a talented QB picking it up late in his career.

Performances aside - one or two of them have been good this year, many have been mediocre, many of them have been brutal - what I see in Sanchez tells me that his heart and his confidence have gone.

He's not a dumb guy, he can read his statlines and he knows he's a 26-year-old man being treated with kid gloves - from Backup NFL QB 47-year-old Mark Brunell, to the Tebow shambles this year (if the ridiculous stuff about him effectively not being allowed to start because of his contract bonus is true, it would be front and center in Sanchez's head), there's no real accountability and he knows that. Just a game or two of Greg McElroy would do so much for Sanchez's head and this locker room.

[Beerfish]

Originally Posted by greenwichjetfan

Fair reasoning. It's still pathetic that the Tebow fan needs to justify trying to get Tebow to start by using incomplete data to prove that he's better than possibly the worst starting QB in the league.

Seriously, ask yourself this: if the Jets had a competent QB, do you not think he'd be playing in place of Sanchez? I mean...seriously?



Please go back to the thread and re-read it if you'd like to continue to defend yourself. I'll give you a hint: your introducing me to sunk costs had nothing to do with actual money terms...you tried unsuccessfully to use it as an analogy. This is back during the Patriots game.

I would say there are very very few if any 'Tebow fans' on this site or in general. The whole Tebow thing would be a non issue if our starting Qb did not reek so badly that we are grasping at anything. The team itself installed Tebow as the back up so blast them, not the people musing that we need some kind of Qb change.

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by Beerfish

I would say there are very very few if any 'Tebow fans' on this site or in general. The whole Tebow thing would be a non issue if our starting Qb did not reek so badly that we are grasping at anything. The team itself installed Tebow as the back up so blast them, not the people musing that we need some kind of Qb change.

Yep yep. Some are acting like Sanchez is having an All Pro season, yet use poor deluded Tebowites are demanding that Tebow start.


Ummm, no. It's that Sanchez has SUCKED ASS this year and deserves/needs to be benched. Normal thing then is for #2 on the depth chart to take over.

[cant wait]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

Yep yep. Some are acting like Sanchez is having an All Pro season, yet use poor deluded Tebowites are demanding that Tebow start.


Ummm, no. It's that Sanchez has SUCKED ASS this year and deserves/needs to be benched. Normal thing then is for #2 on the depth chart to take over.

Except our "#2" isn't a #2 and is only here to be force fed on the team by the owner in the hopes of selling tickets. McElroy deserves to be the backup

[WestCoastOffensive]

Bull**** the kid has been second-guessed from the jump; Tanny cannot deal with players straight up, and needs to GO. THe fact that he BLUNDERED in bringing Tebow in is the last straw for me. Please keep Rex and dump this retart of a GM.

Plenty of GM talent out there. FU tanny for bringing Tebow in to F Up this season. Like Rex doesn't have a hard enough job as it is, keeping a team with a ****ty oline going.

Tanny is a fraud. Keep Rex; dump Tebow.