How do they do it? - Jets Insider.com Forums

jetster · 11-19-2012, 09:34 AM

How do the Patriots lose Olineman & not miss a beat?
Brady still stands there & eats a sandwich.
QBs are under pressure all over the NFL but Brady still throws from the pocket with little pressure.
I know Dante has been there for years but I mean come on!
I've always felt they were the best "holders" in the league. I'm not disparaging this, if Dante has some type of technique for holding well, than more power to him.
Other Olineman coaches including ours should be emulating their scheme because it works.
No team can score like the Pats including the Saints.
I think because they throw all those "quick" passes, the Olineman are taught to hold inside because you don't have to do it for long.
3 seconds & bam, welker or Edelman, are running across the formation.
I think that's why Rex had success vs Pats with his muddled defense & if I remember correctly, Mangini also beat them using that walk around defense.
The other thing they get away with is blocking on those quick screens & bubble screens B4 Brady has released the ball because the refs are old slow guys and can't keep up with that really quick action.
You only see it on the replays.
It's not like Belichick hasn't "stretched the rules" before.

JonEJet · 11-19-2012, 09:38 AM

Very rarely do teams rush more than 4.....if they do, Brady picks out the weak spot in the secondary and goes there.

It's not like Soldier and Vollmer are all world

Borgoguy · 11-19-2012, 09:39 AM

Answer which none of us want to hear? Pats are the best coached team in the NFL...by a friggin' mile. Biggest disaster for the Jets was when Bellicheat walked away as our HC and headed up to Foxboro.

PatriotReign · 11-19-2012, 09:40 AM

Ummmm, helloooo....the Pats cheat. Didn't you get the memo?

jetlifer · 11-19-2012, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borgoguy

Answer which none of us want to hear? Pats are the best coached team in the NFL...by a friggin' mile. Biggest disaster for the Jets was when Bellicheat walked away as our HC and headed up to Foxboro.

Unfortunately, you are spot on with this one.

jetster · 11-19-2012, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonEJet

Very rarely do teams rush more than 4.....if they do, Brady picks out the weak spot in the secondary and goes there.

It's not like Soldier and Vollmer are all world

Their impressive.
I live in New England & see all of their games. On replays you see a lot of tugging & pulling but rarely do they extend those grabs beyond the shoulder pads which usually is what brings a flag.
The combo of Brady's quick recognition & inside holding is a killer. Rarely do you see guys knock down those short low throws, why is that?
The one time it happened yesterday was when the Colts D was walking around.
My theory is that they are taught to hold inside which also keeps the inside guys from being able to jump.
Try to jump when someone is holding your jersey inside your shoulder pads.
Dante's a really good teacher.

Borgoguy · 11-19-2012, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetlifer

Unfortunately, you are spot on with this one.

Folks forget what a mastermind he was as our DC. His defensive schemes saved Parcells a bunch of times.

IMO, Bellicheat's best attribute, and Rex' biggest failing, is his ability to adapt and do it quickly and on the fly. Plus, he grasps all aspects of his team.

LockeJET · 11-19-2012, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borgoguy

Folks forget what a mastermind he was as our DC. His defensive schemes saved Parcells a bunch of times.

IMO, Bellicheat's best attribute, and Rex' biggest failing, is his ability to adapt and do it quickly and on the fly. Plus, he grasps all aspects of his team.

They also play to win from the opening kick to the last whistle. They play every drive like it's a game winning drive. Most teams play not to lose and the Pats just come at you like it's their last series and need a TD. 90% of the games they play are over before the 4th quarter.

sec.101row23 · 11-19-2012, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borgoguy

Folks forget what a mastermind he was as our DC. His defensive schemes saved Parcells a bunch of times.

IMO, Bellicheat's best attribute, and Rex' biggest failing, is his ability to adapt and do it quickly and on the fly. Plus, he grasps all aspects of his team.

I think that is biggest difference between him and Rex. Belli can game plan on both sides of the ball with the best of them.

billygreen · 11-19-2012, 09:57 AM

Teams employ the wrong strategy against the Patriots. They know the Pats will pass so they try to cover all their recievers, but as the Giants have proven over and over again this is not the way to beat them... The way to beat them is at the point of release, AT TOM BRADY, not at the point of reception (their recievers).

The Giants generally have bad defensive backs, so how do they consistently beat the Patriots? Because they have a badass pass rush that puts Tom Brady on his back and has him running for his life. The Jets can also do this, except they also have DB's that can cover.

Borgoguy · 11-19-2012, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LockeJET

They also play to win from the opening kick to the last whistle. They play every drive like it's a game winning drive. Most teams play not to lose and the Pats just come at you like it's their last series and need a TD. 90% of the games they play are over before the 4th quarter.

Exactly what I thought watching them score their final time. No way I would have had Brady in there at that point. The game was over. But, as you point out, that's not how they play and execute. Always look to put up points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

I think that is biggest difference between him and Rex. Belli can game plan on both sides of the ball with the best of them.

No question.

Beerfish · 11-19-2012, 10:04 AM

The thing is Brady does not have all day back there a lot of the time. He gets rid of the ball so fast and with such accuracy that it seems he has more time than he does.

Also teams try and foil the pats by backing off on the rush and adding cover guys (like the Jets did to beat them in the playoffs.)

They are a well coached team and their oc's call a great game. It is amazing that they have virtually no deep game at all.

billygreen · 11-19-2012, 10:08 AM

The way to beat the Patriots is to have a couple of your 350+ pound d-lineman land on Tom Brady a few times and have him come up hobbling. The Patriots do significantly worse when Tom Brady's jersey is dirty. Brady, believe it or not, is pretty easily shaken. He would never take the hits that Sanchez takes and be able to function on the same level.

The Giants have set the game plan for the Pats. Slam Tom Brady early and often and you will win the game... The minute Brady starts getting harrassed and slammed he starts to lose control and begin yelling and screaming and making mistakes. He doesn't want to get his knee hurt again like he did a couple of years ago, that is always in his mind, and if your d-lineman slam him a few times he gets rattled. This is why he hates playing the Giants, and this is the strategy the Jets need to employ on Thursday too.

CleatMarks · 11-19-2012, 10:09 AM

Simple...better coaching. The proof is in the play.

NEJetFromLI · 11-19-2012, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetster

How do the Patriots lose Olineman & not miss a beat?
Brady still stands there & eats a sandwich.
QBs are under pressure all over the NFL but Brady still throws from the pocket with little pressure.
I know Dante has been there for years but I mean come on!
I've always felt they were the best "holders" in the league. I'm not disparaging this, if Dante has some type of technique for holding well, than more power to him.
Other Olineman coaches including ours should be emulating their scheme because it works.
No team can score like the Pats including the Saints.
I think because they throw all those "quick" passes, the Olineman are taught to hold inside because you don't have to do it for long.
3 seconds & bam, welker or Edelman, are running across the formation.
I think that's why Rex had success vs Pats with his muddled defense & if I remember correctly, Mangini also beat them using that walk around defense.
The other thing they get away with is blocking on those quick screens & bubble screens B4 Brady has released the ball because the refs are old slow guys and can't keep up with that really quick action.
You only see it on the replays.
It's not like Belichick hasn't "stretched the rules" before.

Ernie Adams....

southside · 11-19-2012, 10:09 AM

When you display an ability to hurt the opposition through the air they tend to try and stifle the pass game with numbers in coverage.

billygreen · 11-19-2012, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southside

When you display an ability to hurt the opposition through the air they tend to try and stifle the pass game with numbers in coverage.

And that's a bad strategy against the Pats. Rather than doing that the Giants gun thier big D-lineman towards the point of release (Tom Brady).

Savage69 · 11-19-2012, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borgoguy

Answer which none of us want to hear? Pats are the best coached team in the NFL...by a friggin' mile. Biggest disaster for the Jets was when Bellicheat walked away as our HC and headed up to Foxboro.

If you remember in 1997 BB was the HC because the Tuna was still under contract to the Pats.. Parcells was going to be a team advisor which most knew was a sham..Tags stepped in and brokered a deal between the two sides, with New England releasing Parcells from his contract and the Jets giving New England a third and fourth round pick that year, a second round pick the next year and a first round draft choice the year after that. Who knows what would have happened had the Jets stuck with BB without the Tuna??

GreenWave · 11-19-2012, 10:14 AM

It's all about the offense they run - it's designed to prevent QB pressure. That team has to still be depressed about losing the first SB against the Giants, and it's almost like Brady and Belichick decided at that moment that they would never allow QB pressure to be the reason they lose a game again.

So instead of bombs away to Randy Moss, it's quick routes to good short-area receivers like Welker, Edelman, Woodhead, Hernandez, etc. Gronk is open as soon as the ball is snapped. How do you sack a QB when he has receivers open before he even finishes his drop?

As already stated, the only way to consistently beat Brady is to have someone in his face before he finds the guy that's inevitably open. And that means you have less than 4 seconds to get there.

jetsfan1983 · 11-19-2012, 10:16 AM

I don't know why it's so hard for some people to figure it out...

Guys like Brady and Peyton Manning have such a great grasp of the pocket on each play that they understand when they have time and when they don't.

11-19-2012, 09:34 AM	#1
jetster All League Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,924	How do they do it? How do the Patriots lose Olineman & not miss a beat? Brady still stands there & eats a sandwich. QBs are under pressure all over the NFL but Brady still throws from the pocket with little pressure. I know Dante has been there for years but I mean come on! I've always felt they were the best "holders" in the league. I'm not disparaging this, if Dante has some type of technique for holding well, than more power to him. Other Olineman coaches including ours should be emulating their scheme because it works. No team can score like the Pats including the Saints. I think because they throw all those "quick" passes, the Olineman are taught to hold inside because you don't have to do it for long. 3 seconds & bam, welker or Edelman, are running across the formation. I think that's why Rex had success vs Pats with his muddled defense & if I remember correctly, Mangini also beat them using that walk around defense. The other thing they get away with is blocking on those quick screens & bubble screens B4 Brady has released the ball because the refs are old slow guys and can't keep up with that really quick action. You only see it on the replays. It's not like Belichick hasn't "stretched the rules" before. Last edited by jetster; 11-19-2012 at 09:37 AM.

11-19-2012, 09:38 AM	#2
JonEJet Hall Of Fame Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 11,369	Very rarely do teams rush more than 4.....if they do, Brady picks out the weak spot in the secondary and goes there. It's not like Soldier and Vollmer are all world

11-19-2012, 09:39 AM	#3
Borgoguy Not one image until my posts are restored. Veteran Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,360	Answer which none of us want to hear? Pats are the best coached team in the NFL...by a friggin' mile. Biggest disaster for the Jets was when Bellicheat walked away as our HC and headed up to Foxboro.

11-19-2012, 09:40 AM	#4
PatriotReign Asterisks of Excellence *** All League Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boston area Posts: 4,353	Ummmm, helloooo....the Pats cheat. Didn't you get the memo?

11-19-2012, 09:57 AM	#10
billygreen Rookie Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 998	Teams employ the wrong strategy against the Patriots. They know the Pats will pass so they try to cover all their recievers, but as the Giants have proven over and over again this is not the way to beat them... The way to beat them is at the point of release, AT TOM BRADY, not at the point of reception (their recievers). The Giants generally have bad defensive backs, so how do they consistently beat the Patriots? Because they have a badass pass rush that puts Tom Brady on his back and has him running for his life. The Jets can also do this, except they also have DB's that can cover.

11-19-2012, 10:04 AM	#12
Beerfish Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 19,066	The thing is Brady does not have all day back there a lot of the time. He gets rid of the ball so fast and with such accuracy that it seems he has more time than he does. Also teams try and foil the pats by backing off on the rush and adding cover guys (like the Jets did to beat them in the playoffs.) They are a well coached team and their oc's call a great game. It is amazing that they have virtually no deep game at all.

11-19-2012, 10:08 AM	#13
billygreen Rookie Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 998	The way to beat the Patriots is to have a couple of your 350+ pound d-lineman land on Tom Brady a few times and have him come up hobbling. The Patriots do significantly worse when Tom Brady's jersey is dirty. Brady, believe it or not, is pretty easily shaken. He would never take the hits that Sanchez takes and be able to function on the same level. The Giants have set the game plan for the Pats. Slam Tom Brady early and often and you will win the game... The minute Brady starts getting harrassed and slammed he starts to lose control and begin yelling and screaming and making mistakes. He doesn't want to get his knee hurt again like he did a couple of years ago, that is always in his mind, and if your d-lineman slam him a few times he gets rattled. This is why he hates playing the Giants, and this is the strategy the Jets need to employ on Thursday too.

11-19-2012, 10:09 AM	#14
CleatMarks All League Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,596	Simple...better coaching. The proof is in the play.

11-19-2012, 10:09 AM	#16
southside Forever Awesome All Pro Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 8,884	When you display an ability to hurt the opposition through the air they tend to try and stifle the pass game with numbers in coverage.

11-19-2012, 10:14 AM	#19
GreenWave Veteran Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,401	It's all about the offense they run - it's designed to prevent QB pressure. That team has to still be depressed about losing the first SB against the Giants, and it's almost like Brady and Belichick decided at that moment that they would never allow QB pressure to be the reason they lose a game again. So instead of bombs away to Randy Moss, it's quick routes to good short-area receivers like Welker, Edelman, Woodhead, Hernandez, etc. Gronk is open as soon as the ball is snapped. How do you sack a QB when he has receivers open before he even finishes his drop? As already stated, the only way to consistently beat Brady is to have someone in his face before he finds the guy that's inevitably open. And that means you have less than 4 seconds to get there.

11-19-2012, 10:16 AM	#20
jetsfan1983 All Pro Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,835	I don't know why it's so hard for some people to figure it out... Guys like Brady and Peyton Manning have such a great grasp of the pocket on each play that they understand when they have time and when they don't.